If the Indians are doing the same as what the white settlers did to the salmon runs like you suggest they are, they'd have been wiped out long ago.
I don't remember the years now but it wasn't long at all and the settlers had decimated the runs. It wasn't farming, logging, dams, or Indians that killed the Columbia salmon it was greedy uneducated settlers that did it, long before the other factors came into play. When I say uneducated I'm referring to the fact that they didn't know any different. Not all would have fished like they did if they knew the impact, but I'm sure some would just like the commercials today do.

well i guess as long as they're pumping out hatchery brats I suppose there will always be a run now wont there... but is it a really a run if its all hatchery fish...

only time will tell now eh?

my main concern is with money and big business comes power with the desicion makers... how soon before the sport season gets shorter and shorter...

To be honest I don't pay alot of attention to the politics side of things. I used to but I soon realized I was ticked off all the time no matter what. I've since just kept an occasional eye on it and am much happier now. But what surprises me is that sportsmen should have more power when it comes to money than anyone. Granted you won't get them to agree on anything but where's the tackle companies that everyone gives their money too at in all this??
Sitting back east collecting more money. People need to start lobbying them to lobby for us. We'd get more fish and they'd get more $$$.

Why do the tribes and the commercials get away with what they do?? It's because they have organizations representing them as a whole. They don't have the WT vs. TU vs. everyone else.

What a statement.......... They have done nothing except effectively whine and wave the treaty...... We taxpayers have been the ones to "Do it" by supporting their fisheries with our tax dollars. And believe me, if they could get all whites banned from fishing (as my wifes uncle used to say, and he was a tribal board member "You have no right fishing in our waters") in any waters that they fish they would......
What a bonehead way to think.....

MC

For heavens sake people, do you all forget who paid (and pays) for these "Tribal" hatcheries? You and I, unless of course you are on of those lucky tribal members (since they do not pay the taxes we do)......

MC

Well at least the commercials pay taxes on what they catch and sell...... Crock of shiot that the tribes get use of all the public resources that we do, yet they do not pay the taxes that we do........ I guess I'll start sitting in the back of the bus now.....

MC

Very true, but we learned and are changing our ways.... Most of the tribe members that fish would take every last one and could care less... I thought that way of thinking was why we were so bad..... Feminine males way of thinking makes me want to puke....

MC

Yeah, give me the kind of funding that they get and I could accomplish a lot too..... God, everyone acts like they have done all of this without any help from anybody.....

You have watched too much Beavis and Butthead and you fall into the latter category. Without the dams, farming, logging, etc., the indians would be freezing their ass off sitting in a teepee wishing for a warm piece of food.... They sure enjoy modern living, but curse it as being the reason for them needing protection and special priviledge......... Hell, they cannot even hunt or fish using "Traditional" methods.... Mercurys and monofiliment nets were not available in the 1800's...... Oh, I forgot, you were too busy watching MTV to learn anything in school.....

MC

MasterCaster,
You...............ah #@&% it!!

yeah, I happened to like a show that was on MTV well after I was in school. Yup, never learned anything. I will now bow before your narrow-minded ass because you know so much more than the rest of us and you show it so well with your enlightening posts.

Boy MC I thought they had run most of the White Surpremists out of Idaho!! Guess not!!
What are you mad that the Indians were Tresspassing on your land thousands of years before the White men found it or what?
So its OK if tax money is given to someone to run hatcherys as long as they are white? And I would guess that you would spend billions in tax dollars to save "native" fish but not a nickel to help the native humans. What part of this cant you understand the Indians and fish survived perfectly well togather for thousands of years there was not a problem till white man showed up. And buy the way do you fish the way your four fathers did? You know with a stick and a string or just a gaff hook. The sad part is I spent most of my life being a bigot against the Indians just like you. But I sure am glad I woke up to the truth.

Here is a nice picture from the Duwamish River. You may notice the net is from bank to bank. Now why would anyone have a problem with this

feminan males way of thinking make me want to puke

I hope that means I make you want to puke! that thought does not bother me a bit

"Without the dams, farming, logging, etc., the indians would be freezing their ass off sitting in a teepee wishing for a warm piece of food.... "

Actually they'd be sitting in a wooden structure with a cook fire going, probably eating some fresh fish.

Got any more facts we can absorb?

I have been down stairs working on my never ending remodle project thinking about where the feminine male thing comes from.I think I got it!

You see a while back mc was spouting some more of his pure hatred retorick and I made a referance similiar to duroboats idea of white supremacy.Of course mc did not like that and started with some little kidddy behavior leaving little nasty notes around for me.I seem to remember one was a personal message,referancing a thread that had something to do with a gay parade and my use of the word normal people vs what ever they choose to be called these days.So in conclusion,I would have to guess that mc is calling me gay?I do not think I have been called that since the first grade.I guess I can quit worrying myself over that now.back to work.

F4F,
Here are some really disturbing net pictures to check out.
www.alaska.net/~wizard/commfish/and11.jpg
www.alaska.net/~wizard/commfish/and02.jpg

Why am I not surprised at your lame replies? I dislike white people more than most, especially the idiots. So I am a White Supremicist because I cannot stand double standards? I guess since my son is 1/2 indian I hate hime too?
Why did they rush to rebury Kennewick man only after he was aged at 9,000 plus years and had european features? Maybe there were caucasions over here during or maybe even before the asians (Indians).
What I hate more than anything are weak minded people that preach for everyone to be proud of their culture and heritage, except their own. I am tired of my son (who is 1/2 white) being ashamed of that part of him. He can revel in his indian ethnicity, but cannot be proud of his caucasion ethnicity without idiots like you calling him a "Racist" or "White Supremicist"......... Believe me, I hate a lot about the white race, especially those in the Gov't and Corporate America..... Not because of their color, but rather their actions. I have no love for ANY race that thinks they are special of above any other race...... That includes the whites that believe that....

Cleo, I don't know why I bother replying to your pathetic dribble.... I never called you gay. I merely mentioned how you were slamming someone for name calling, then you mentioned the Gay parade and referred to yourself as "Normal"..... I think the gay community would then assume that you were calling them "abnormal", which maybe they are.. But You were slamming someone else for name-calling......

Spend one friggin day working in my field and your small clueless minds would be opened up to a lot.... It is not just indians..... Lots of lazy, wortless whites too (can you say Welfare?).

Have a great week in your world....

MC

Duroboat15, before you let those pics disturb you too much, you should look at the numbers of pinks (that's what those are) caught over the last few years in AK.

http://www.cf.adfg.state.ak.us/geninfo/finfish/salmon/catchval/blusheet/02exvesl.htm

They're not even putting a dent in them. Depletion of the pink run from overharvest is probably the last thing they're worried about, particularly in S.E.

So, MC, you judge populations of people (whether it's actually a race thing with you it's hard to tell...you seem to hate ALL races) by the welfare cases that you deal with in your job? I don't get what you're saying....what do you do?

Skywalker,
Yea I know thats why I posted that linc on the end of the first page of this thread about the 2 million pinks stripped of there eggs and dumpped over.I was just tring to show that the Indians are not the only ones to waste fish.That the commercials do the same thing.