I've been a member of this board for a long time. I actually started under another moniker... I have to say that I am about ready to stop visiting this board altogether. It use to be a fun place to stop by, read and make a few posts. Now it is a battleground with constant feuding and flaming. There are people here who post simply to stir the pot and nothing more. There are others who are more interested in politics than the outdoors. At first when the NFR label came out, they could say.."dont click on it if you dont like it". The problem now is the arguing and fighting carries over to other outdoor related posts. Just check out the recent clamming thread... it turned into a no holds barred grudge match that started in another thread. Its nearly impossible to avoid. I have been in a few scraps myself, but realized what a waste of time it is to bicker with someone who may be acting out a "cyber" personality that is far different from how they really are.... (people tend to be way different when sitting behind the safety of a computer screen than they would in person.) Anyway, I am about ready to stop visiting the board altogether, but want to at least speak my mind before I go. I would just ask that people step back, take a look at how things have become here, and try to be a little more civilized. There are people here who rarely have a negative post.... (downriggin and easy limits come to mind...) I may be wrong, but I dont recall them ever trashing someone here. I am not exempt from this either... but I am done with it. I hope that things can straighten out. There is a lot people have to gain from this type of forum... At the very least we should try to keep things from getting personal. Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say....

Water off a duck's back........

Just don't let it bug you, as there is still a lot of good stuff here.

The spats only bother you as much as you let them.

Stick around.

I would also like it to stop. It makes me want to Go to a political forum it you want to duscuss polotics. Keep the fishing stuff for this forum. I hope this thread will change some people.

Stick around Elkrun!

Elkrun I hope that you will stay, I'm trying to put a stop to the p!ssing contests without booting people from the board----- but , like you, I'm running out of patience.

Good post elkrun.

I'm in

Well.........how else are we supposed to feel good about ourselves?

I was checking out the board last night and got to the point I highlighted my PP bookmark and was about to delete it. For some reason I decided not to, but decided to wait a few days and see if things didn't change for some reason.

All the personal bashing and attacks on other user groups is really getting old and I'd like to see it stop. I'm just as passionate about fish issues as the next person, but alienating potential allies isn't going to help the resource and create more fishing oportunity.

Let's see….what's wrong with this picture Jerry?

The first one who has complained is a teacher; the second person who has complained is a "student"

The third person who support one and two is a state worker! Now the fourth person who is supporting this is another state worker!

Am I the only one that is starting to see a pattern here? It seems like people who are all complaining are people who either for work state or suck from the blood of state funds.

Any yes, Jerry I only addressed you one time!

I think when people do not follow the board rules you need to deal with them. A personal warning to them explaining what rule they have broken would be the appropriate way to do it. If they continue to violate the rules, then a guy got to do what a guy needs to do!

I don't know of a single person on this board who gets attacked more then I do, but it all goes with turf. If you can't take the heat, don't jump into the frying pan!



Cowlitzfisherman

Well, cowfish.......I gotta tell ya, I'm not a student, teacher or state worker and it's bumming me out too.

So where's the pattern in that?

Uh Oh! Now ya went and did it Dan! Give him a minute and he'll come up with somethin'!!

Elkrun has it right. Perhaps the board should consider rules that ban name calling, personal attacks, and the scatalogical refrences that some of the worst of the troublemakers seem to use as their stock in trade.

Now watch them come out with their flames turned up. It seems that this board has no room for civil disagreement.

I suspect a serious review of all my posts, which will surely be underway soon, would find some that violated my proposed rules, but we ALLneed to get back to civil discourse. Those who can't play nicely agter a warning or two should be banned.

One of my best posts ever was deleted with the rest of the Open Letter from MC thread
So, I will try and remember what I wrote and put it here, it is germane. The evil side of the good/evil parts to the Internet is tone. I may disagree with someone's ideas and make it as blunt as I want - in person, when that bluntness is coupled with a sly grin, a wink, a raised eyebrow - a totally different meaning is given. On this board and with e-mail, we don't have that benefit. What I said to MC was that I agreed with some, disagreed with most, but believed that if we sat down over a pair of our favorite brews, we would probably have a civil conversation. If we didn't have that civil conversation, one or both of us would benefit from therapy. When you hit the Add reply button, whatever you have written is spewed forth in black and white. I always hit the preview post button, read the words, and try to (as objectively as possible) understand the "tone" that I'm projecting. It works for me - how about you?

MC - thanks for the apology. It takes a big man to say I'm sorry and I appreciate your efforts. I still disagree with most of what you say however but this is America. Thank God for that!!!

After hitting the preview post button, I recognized the tone of this was condescending. I will not edit the post - but only to make the point.

Scatological? Man...that's poetic. I'm writing that one down!

eddie,

I thought that post was good enough to type twice.

Everyone's free to make their personal choices, but I hope no one decides to leave the BB. I appreciate that the moderators are quite tolerant. I recall that the freedom of speech isn't about the speech that I agree with; it's about the speech I disagree with. Nonetheless, I don't advocate a no-holds barred level of tolerance. I try to always consider that this BB is part of Bob's website, and therefore is his private property. The only value any website has is its content. In that context, I try to add value to the website content, in the hope that the owner/moderators will approve and allow me to continue to share information and my opinions here.

As a result, I usually refrain from emotional posts. Of course, that's a good way to get very few responses. It's the emotional, passionate posts, the ones most lacking in logic, the ones suggesting the poster has poor critical thinking skills, that receive the most responses. Yet, that's a form of content, if you like that sort of entertainment. But it tends more toward entertainment than useful information. Ah well, the website gets a lot of hits.

At first I was puzzled when I observed folks continually replying to irrational posts where a prior poster either lacked or didn't employ any critical thinking skills. I finally concluded that the responders probably knew better, but just couldn't resist the perverse entertainment value of threads going off the deep end.

Anyway Jerry, I hope you don't ban anyone from the board unless it's clear to you that they're devaluing the website with their contributions.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Aunty- am i misunderstanding you... because I took that as you are against people trying to be civilized? (I'm tired and I probably read it wrong...) Who cares what the topic is, nfr or fr, why does it have to get ugly constantly? I know kids who have posted pictures of their first fish only to be BLASTED for not holding it correctly. I dont think civility is asking too much. Shouldn't someone be able to find fish pictures and reports on a fishing site without having to weed through all the garbage?

CFM- man you crack me up. seriously.... I'll bet you would be fun to fish with, email me anytime you're up my way. You have such a different view on things and sometimes it make you interesting. But man you gotta stop the dropping the "teacher" thing like its an insult... its an honor actually! Same with the "state worker" label you throw around, You try to make it sound demeaning. I've never once slammed retired fishing guides....

Not everything is a conspiracy against taxpayers!

This is Bob's site and he'll allow what he'll allow. But this is becoming a train wreck...
All I am saying is that people should be able to disagree without being insulting.... and if someone actually wants to read about fishing, they should be able to do that too. I think most would agree.

Reading your post did make me feel bad. Yes I am very passionate about the issues I "spout off" about. I actually do not blame those that I argue with so vehemently because I know they are just as passionate about what they believe.
When "pissing" with someone that is just as stubborn as myself (and passionate about the topic), it is hard for me to look at it the way you put it. That is the stubborn part of me. Call it being middle-aged and full to my craw of passionate protesting of so many things nowadays, yet other equally injustices are ignored and "pooh-poohed" away only due to the fact of who the injustice is happening to.

Anyway, I need to realize that I am not going to change anyones mind any more than they will change mine....... And come here for the good fellowship that fishing gives each and every one of us. For my part in this, I apologize to all board members.
From now on I will either post in a productive manner or just go on to the next topic if I cannot......

Christof

I agree with Elkrun completely. I too have been tired of the constant complaining, and politics. I fish to get away from that. Know there is always a set of politics underneath, but that's where it would be nice to have a secondary forum for the fighting to go. I too have almost deleted my bookmark, and I've been coming here for quite awhile. But it's been turning more and more into a fight then a fun place to hang out like it once was. I realize you can just not read the post. Problem is, you have to sort through so many, and actually read into some, to get past them.

And, I'm not a State employee either. Work for the private sector competing against the USPS. So not involved with the Gov't at all. LOL

elkrun,
i for one have appreciated your input in the past and i also share your concerns now. i hope you will stay at least until you can go with better feelings about a board that could really use more of your heart right now. a good spirit will overcome a bad spirit everytime. and its always darkest before the dawn.

jerry,
thanks for your patience in allowing us kids to grow up on our own. anything we got coming has been long overdue.

bob,
thanks for providing a great place to share our experiences and love of this fine sport

to anyone i may have offended with any post i have made,
please accept my sincere apologises.

peace to all

I'll bet this board has already lost hundreds and hundreds of true fishermen.

We used to have 100's of different anglers posting on a wide diversity of fishing topics.

Now it seems the board has been taken over by a few dozen who are here 24/7 with large numbers of posts argueing politics.

I used to encourage angler friends to participate on PP. No more. I was embarrassed when one guy I asked told me he was no longer interested in "Pissy Pursuits".

I would sure like to see PP return to the high quality website it was when I first joined.

It seems to me the board tends to attract more posters during the fall and winter months when there is less other things to do.

I agree with Aunty M.
Some people tend to throw a political jab/barb into the most simplistic non-political response which can get the ball rolling as it's intended to do. But how or why should a moderator be expected to police that 24/7?
As for NFR...if the title say's NFR then don't read or participate if you choose not to. I find it particularly humorous when people post to threads telling people they shouldn't be posting to the thread because it's NFR.
However, name calling, threats or racist remarks show immaturity and a lack of ability to form your thoughts into lucid sentences and there's no place for that. So, if you read something that makes you so angry that you can't post a civil comeback it's best to not post at all.

Aunty and Stlhead,
I agree with you guys

Oh and one thing that does really bug me are what I call the cyber stalkers.The ones that if you have a disagreement on something with they will look for any one of the threads you post and start bashing

Dont go anywhere Elk!

I think we can all agree (hopefully) that every one of us uses this board in different ways. Some to obtain the latest reports, some to discuss politics, some to discuss fishing related issues that are important to all of us. I for one think all threads here except a few are worthy of this board.


One thing I would like to see is people who talk about politics all the time to tell us how their fishing has been, and people who only talk about fishing to get involved in some of the other topics important to this sport!

Mark my words-Someday, a board like this will be a very instrumental tool in gathering anglers against causes that threaten this sport and our rights. We need all of you here.

We should embrace this forum as a place to not only discuss how that catch was, but how the politicians, Government, Indians, Commercials, and other Sportsmen affect what, how, and where we catch it.

Sky-Guy...

You would think that would do the trick... but like I said earlier, the "angry ones" infect even the most innocent of threads. I was just trying to get a bead on the upcoming clamming opener, and had to sort through all the garbage to find anything useful... It has gone way past the NFR posts... I'm beginning to agree that there needs to be a separate board for NFR's. And abusive people need to get the boot. If you cant act like an adult and debate without getting nasty, then you need to go bye-bye. I agree that the mods cant police it 24/7 (not if they ever want to fish) Start showing people the door if they cant behave. I think Jerry has warned enough.

Amen Aunty! Republican or not, you just gotta love it when a leader says "If Zoey Bartlett turns up dead, I'm gonna blow the hell outta somethin', and God help them after that!"

"The West Wing" is one of my favorite shows just in case anyone was wonderin'...

Do any of you know of any good medications that aleviate "silent, but deadly" farts? You can't hear them but man do they stink...
Thanks,
Cuttie

I am glad I was never in your class Cuttie!

I think the only effective method is a fan bro!

Once you gottem youre stuck with em...

Preventitive maintenance would be to double up on the beer nuts...

counteracts the effect of too much beer...

Avoid yeasty homebrews to alleviate SBDs.

Personally, I'd rather live with the stench than have my wife quit drinking my homebrew.

Word up, Skyguy.

I'm glad to see this come up. I don't mind the NFR topics themselves. I like to see the discussion, and would welcome the opportunity for thoughtful debate. However, that opportunity rarely comes. We are cautioned to avoid politics at parties, because it only takes a second for the debate to get heated, and for relationships to suffer. On these topics there are simply some folks (on each side) that hate/fear/detest the other side too much to actually discuss and debate the issues civilly. What's the old saw, "Liberals think all conservatives are evil, and conservatives think all liberals are stupid?" If any two of those individuals are in the crowd, civil debate can't happen. They always are in the crowd, because there's a little piece of one there in each of us, just waiting to flame. So you either have to tolerate them, spank them or avoid them.

I think what Jenny did over at Ifish was smart. They created a second board, and moved the NFR topics to that board.

I'm one of those who comes here less because of this stuff. I asked for civility here myself a while back, and caught a lot of flack from several folks. The comment was made, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. So I did.

Well, thanks for accepting my apology Eddie.....
I agree your post was a good one.... Made me think. I do not feel though that your thread was condescending, maybe I missed that part.

So many of the arguing posts and hard feelings seem to spawn from the feeling that many of the threads by myself and others are racist, bigoted, or intolerant.....

Speaking only for myself, it puzzles and frustrates me that making a complaint that I feel is valid is viewed in that manner. Again, I think in black and white. To me, calling a member of an ethnic group or minority a derogatory name is racist. Referring to them as subhuman or worse is bigotry. Complaining about actions by said groups or unfair laws/rights afforded to those groups does not fit the description of those names (racist, bigot, etc) in my view.
Think about it. Calling white corporate CEO's selfish, self-serving, elitist, worthless, etc., will not garner ONE accusation of being racist or bigoted. Say the same about ANY minority group and guess what.... The label is placed...

Thanks again for accepting my apology, and who knows.... Maybe someday we will be able to sit and have that brew together?!

MC