Experts say hatcheries hurt wild fish
Fish hatcheries, which mass produce about 200 million salmon and steelhead each year for release into the Columbia River Basin, are ignoring problems that could undermine the survival of wild fish, according to a sweeping report to Congress by independent experts. The report, one of the first-ever attempts to take stock of the entire Columbia Basin and performed at the request of Congress, was released as a draft this week by the Northwest Power and Conservation Council, an agency representing the governors of Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana. While the council has no regulatory power, its recommendations help shape the massive federal effort to aid depleted salmon stocks. (16-Oct-03) Oregonian

All the evidence has been real clear for 20 years or more. It has just taken the paperwork this long to catch up. It will not take the states long to reccomend closing the hatcheries in favor of protecting the wild fish. They will use any law that supports that effort with their hands in the air pointing at the feds.

The final battle approaches between the sports commercial and tribal fisheries. We all have ring side seats.

Between the dams, nets and hook and line, the hatcheries are probably the only thing keeping the wild fish around...

In a perfect world its a three step recovery

1. Blow up the dams
2. Remove the nets
3. No sport fishing

Only then will there not be a need for hatcheries on the columbia.

But then again its not a perfect world is it...

The hatcheries are not keeping wild fish around...

They are, however, keeping fishing around.

I think if a lot of folks on this BB would NOT correlate fishing with strength of wild runs, there would be a lot more common ground to talk (argue?) about.

Fish on...

Todd.

Piper, what about clean water?

Also dose anybody know how long it would take for the slit behind the dams to get washed out to sea. don't think that stuff would help the fish either.

Hey, I never said it would happen overnight... I reckon for each decade of the industrial age it would probably take a century or more to reverse the damage...

Which is why I think hatcheries on the columbia are a necessary evil in this day and age... It is sad when you think about it.

This is just my opinion not based on any facts and not backed up by any figures...

BW

It wouldn't take as long as you might think to ride a basin of slit! You need to look no further then the Toutle River. The only reason that the Toutle is silted in now is BECAUSE of the "slit retaining dam" that the COE put in after the mountain blew! It's the "retaining dam" that keeps releasing the slit into the Toutle each year. If the river was left alone, and allowed to cut back down through the silt, it would clear up very quickly. And if the dam was removed completely and the banks were reseeded with alders, fir trees, and grass seed, in my opinion, it would be back to producing natural spawning fish in less then a decade.

The silt that ends up going down our rivers end up in places like the Columbia River, and form natural sand bars and Islands. It's all part of the natural occurring events in mother nature's scheme. It's been going on like that for eons. And fish have managed to do well. Its man and his man made structures that screw up "nature's natural scheme ".


Cowlitzfisherman

This doesn't happen too often, but CFM and I are in full agreement. The silt behind the dams would be a short term problem, the dams are a long term problem.

It could ba a short term problem, or there could be so much built up behind the dams that it would cause havic down stream. I am wondering if some way of gradually releasing the silt, like they are doing on the Toutle.

What about polution and its role in the environment?

Bullelklr: No doubt pollution is a problem, as is logging, mining, over grazing, netting, poaching, floods, drought, urban creep, etc.,etc. But we will never get anywhere if we ignore one identified problem because there are other problems. We have seen the netters blame the loggers, the ranchers blame the nettere, etc. forever. We know what the problem are we need to take some meaningful action.

I DO NOT favor immediately closing all hatcheries. But we need rapid action to do everything possible to mitigate hatchery problems. Enough studies. Lets get busy. Yesterday.

better check with the tribes before closing all those hatcheries. oooooo can you spell legal action...I can smell it

do you belong to washington trout ?, i think that they want the same thing to happen.

what me leave a hatchery post untouched??? Never

I don't know if we need a reduction in hatchery plants. We just need to use common sence where we put the hatchery fish.

For instance spring chinook in the wind river.. We don't need to quit planting thoes fish we just need to move that production to another facility where there is less interaction with wild fish.. My recommendation would be the big white salmon.. Same with Klickitat summer steelhead and Coho..

We just need to use common sence with when and where we plant all these fish..

While I agree with you wholeheartedly, Aunty, especially in light of the vastly higher rate of economic return from sport caught fish vs. commercially caught fish, I'm sure there are a lot of commercials who are wondering why all their tax dollars and license fees are going to fund such a tremendous sport fishery!

Todd.

washington trout wants the hatcherys to operate within the legal guidlines, whats wrong with that ?

did you know that if the hatcherys were operated legaly that washington trout would have "nothing" to sue the state over ?

if they didnt have a case they would have got nothing from the state.

i dont approve of them taking tax payer money but the fact is that if the state was operating hatcheries correctly there would be no lawsuits

Amen to that Boater..

http://www.nwcouncil.org/library/2003/2003-17.htm

This is the website for the whole story behind the council's report

this is my opinion and not worth much but i believe it to be the truth.. thats why it's my opinion..

hatcheries need drastic reform. some need to be closed and their production placed elsewhere..

minimal impact on wild stocks should be the single overriding factor in deteremining what reforms are needed.

sport harvest opportunity should be greatly focused on the larger damed rivers Lewis cowlits clackamas.....

Small undammed tributaries should be catch and release , single unbarbed artificials or closed to fishing. rivers like the East Lewis, Wind, Klickitat, and John day


Some rivers should be managed as a mixt stock and hatchery practices in such places should be focused on minimizing impact on wild fish.. Such rivers would be. the Washougal, Sandy, Deschutes

At least one river in each segmet of the columbia should be completely void of any hatchery fish. My recommendations for the lower and middle columbia would be
Grays, East lewis, south toutle, Wind , Klickitat and John day rivers.

I believe there is room for all methods of managment. No one is going to get everything they want from any side of this debate.. What i have laid out above is my best opportunity for a reasonable compromize..

It is clear one thing must end though.. that being commercial spring salmon fishing on the Lower columbia...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rob Allen:

sport harvest opportunity should be greatly focused on the larger damed rivers Lewis cowlits clackamas.....

It would be disheartening to see that actually happen. Such is a greatly improbability . I don't fish those rivers for the reason that I favor Olympic Peninsula rivers. To say that we should focus sport fishing on the cowlitz, clackamas, and lewis is ridiculous in my mind. There is only so much elbow room before people would have to start lining up for their turn to fish.

rock hopper

1. we are talking specifically about the columbia river system

2. I said sport HARVEST not sport fishing

3. like i said everyone has to compromise a little. If no one is ever willing to give up anything then we will never get anywhere in terms of protecting wild fish.. If people are saying " i won't give up anything" that means that they do not care about wild fish at all OR they don't believe ALL the available scince indicating the harm hatchery fish do to wild fish..

Rob

Believe it or not I often agree with some of your comments. I respect your passion for the issues even though I slam you from time to time. I think Spring Chinook netting on the Columbia is shameful and needs to be stopped. I really believe if WT would have continued to work on that with PSA and others we would probaably be on the same side. Too many wild fish are killed in that fishery and that is a documented fact.

Your idea to have small rivers free of hatchery fish is fine as long as you would agree to not wet a line in any of them regardless of C&R. If your goal is simply to have what I have called "boutique" fisheries then I am against that. We should not be saving "wild" fish for the catch and release benefit of the small group that wants only that type of scenario.

As far as sports fishers being unwilling to sacrifice and give up things...WOW have we ever sacrificed. Look at the current closure of crabbing for example. We take only 15% of the catch meaning 85% commercial and we are shut down across the board so the 85% crowd can harvest their "share"...same with shrimping only worse. The allocations of the salmon and steelhead stocks will be coming up for 2004 soon and you can see how much sacrifice sportsmen have endured while the commercial harvesters keep on killing wild fish by the thousands....then there is the co-management side with their incredible take of wild fish.

Yes Rob we need to reform hatcheries and probably close some. We need a balanced approach so if we close a hatchery we don't allow commercial netting in the migration path of any of the wild fish returning to the area we are trying to revive wild fish in without hatcheries and without sports fishing.