I saw a small portion video the other day of sea-run brown trout.
Would it be great to introduce these guys in Washington Rivers?

Heh....yer fishin' now.......watch out!

As a kid in Michigan we used to fish at night for the sea runs out of Lake Michigan. The snow/hail/sleet/rain we're having tonight remind me of fishing for the big brownies.

A beach fisherman on Whidbey cnr what the rest of us on the beach decided was a brown trout last summer.

Was this just a fluke, or do they turn up occasionally.

Jeff, I'd imagine it's possible. I know they're stocked in some of the lakes around the state. Probably wouldn't take much for one to find it's way out to sea.

Jeff D- was probably a Atlantic Salmon escaped from the pens.

I've heard stories (maybe urban legend) of people catching them at the mouth of the Washougal River. It could be possible, because there is a lake in it's watershed that is stocked with browns.

What Jeff and others might be catching are just SRCs (Sea-Run Cutthroat). They are native to are area and thanks to a state wide CnR program they have returned in numbers. They also stay close to the shores mostly in shelterd bays and estuaries for a few months and then spend time in creeks/rivers.

As for introducing SRBs I would have to object as they would compeate for food and space with resident coho, SRCs, SR Bull Trout, blackmouth, and compeate with other fish for space while spawning/feeding/living in the rivers.

Not to mention the smolts they'd inevetabley feed apon. Kinda like a pretty squawfish.

Really bad idea to introduce any non-native species to our waters.

Big brownies are fish eaters. The states that plant them try and segregate them as much as possible as they will eat every other specie thats smaller than them.

You got that right wolverine. Say what part of Michigan did you grow up? They are by far the easiest of the trout and salmon to catch that I have fished for. They are very aggressive at certain times, this is the time where you can rack up some serious numbers of brownies. Like you guys stated it would probably be not a good idea to introduce these fish into your waters, they would probably affect native populations in a bad way.

As a kid I caught 100's of Sea runs in the Sloughs, creeks and rivers of the snohomish system. Some of the native Cutt's could look like Brownies specifically the big ones. The best bait for them was chunks of sucker meat in the lower Snohomish and the Sloughs. They would run into the 4lb range.

Just like walleye and bass have. Smolt gobblers.

Definetely an objection for me too. I agree with everything said above. Fish eaters or not, its not a good idea to introduce any non-native species to any body of water. Someone introduced pike into Lake Crocker near Discovery Bay about 5 years ago or more and it still is closed down for fishing. Nope, not a very good idea to me.

I agree.
Not trying to stray off topic, but how much damage was done by the walleyes in the Columbia since their introduction?

Another question.
Since they are sea-runners, what is their eating habit in their spawing rivers?
Salmon and steelheads don't seem to eat much on the returning trip.
If the browns show the same behavior as salmon and steelhead in spawn, then I don't see a problem.

Sea-Run Brown I believe are like SRCs. SRCs, and SR Bull Trout for that matter, only spend around 3-4 months in the salt water before heading into the rivers/creeks starting in June through November. They then spawn in December - April. Run timings are very different and widespread between river systems. Durring their time in the rivers they are actively feeding on salmon eggs/flesh, October Caddis flies, nymphs, and anything else they get in their mouths. They are also very aggressive, and very fun on the fly rod since they will hammer flies. There are exceptions as you can find a few SRCs in the salt durring mid-winter and their months in the salt water can varry. Sometimes they won't even migrate to the salt if they find a good food source one year in the river (or they will delay their migration).

I cannot say for sure if SRBs are like SRCs. But I have seen on tv people fishing for them in Argentina and they where using nymphs and such and cating them.

Iron Head -
remember that sea-run browns are much like steelhead, altantic salmon or our sea-run cutthroat in that they spend several years (usually 2?) in the rivers until they are large enough to migrate to the marine waters. This means they would be in direct competition with the native fishes of the river system for rearing space and food resources.

Don't know whether the sea-run adults on their spawning runs upstream feed much or not. However it seems that browns run up from lakes and/or lower rivers are still active feeders so it seems likely that there would be at least some active feeding. I'm sure that the post-spawn adults would be very active.

Tight lines
Smalma

Downtime -- I'm originally from Grand Rapids. Grew up fishing the Grand, Muskegon, Pere Marquette, and Manistee. Folks had a cabin at Lake Gogebic in the west end of the UP where we did a lot of fishing for Walleye and up in Lake Superior for Lakers. Always did deer hunting up there also. Used to go across the border to Hurley, WI in the evenings for entertainment. It was a wide open town during hunting season. The shady ladies from Chicago would come up and work the deer hunting crowd. If you were big enough to put a buck on the bar they served you and the ladies felt that if you were old enough to drink you were old enough for .......... Pretty wild stuff when you were 13.

hmmmm...those Browns sound alot like our Dollys....fish gobblers....although I know nothing directly about Browns. I'm not happy with protection for "Bull" (capital B) trout, as they are about as much use as squaw fish... no good to eat and aggresive gobblers of salmon, trout, and steelhead fry and smolts.
In one instance while spooning for iron on the Skagit, I hooked a Dolly that had a 10" rainbow in its craw. The trout was too big for the Dolly to swallow outright, so its entire tail was still hanging out of the Dolly's mouth when it hit my spoon.
Just my two cents worth...go ahead, try to sell me on all the wonderful attributes of our native char. Nothing personal.....but they suck.

I believe that our native char are one of the best fish in Washington. They are rare, population wise, compared to steelhead and salmon. For thousands of years they coexisted with salmon and steelhead. They are fun to catch because they can be few and far between. They are a gorgous fish. I know I can not sell you, Fun5, but I hope you ( and everybody else) releases all the Bulls/Dollies they catch.

FJ15 has a point. They're a natural part of the system.

Having the natural balance of predatory fish around is what keeps populations healthy and evolving as the weaker ones get knocked off.

That being said, if we try to manage one population and not the others (this could be seen both in few numbers - bulls/dollies or big numbers - seals/sea lions), there's gonna be problems!

I too enjoy seeing the char catches from time to time, they seem to be making a small comeback out this way ... more power to them. Let's just keep our salmon and steelhead escapements up so that we have a natural balance!

And the guys who pursue SR cutts would agree that browns would be in major competion with their quarry. Not much different to me than the Atllantic salmon deal here in the NW.
We don't need another predator introduced that will feed on steelhead and salmon smolts, or compete with the exsisting native Salmon and Trout species. Especially with a the $'s and effort being spent to protect them.
Hopefully any siting of SRB's is just a case of mistaken identity.

It could have very easily been a brown that Jeff caught off Whidbey Is., seeing as just 20 miles to the NW there is a run on Vancouver Is.

I know the WDF plants them every year in a few lakes. I'm sure all of the above concerns are correct, but it sure would be nice to have more opportunities for big browns or Atlantics !!!

does the wdfw still plant them on the westside? i know they stocked quite a few until they started dumping those triploid rainbows in about 4 or 5 years ago.

i think the triploids are worse, they get huge fast and eat all the smaller fish in some of the little lakes(like ward lake), such as kokanee

I agree with eddie and stlhead. We dont need anymore invasive fish into our waters. Bass and walleye are bad enough, we should be paid to catch those damn things just like the squaws, atleast the squaws are native though. Every bass i catch on the snake in the summer, a 100 fish day isnt a hard goal for 2 of us, they get tossed on the bank unless we feel like cooking 1 up.

waterboy

Hey wolverince thats interesting you grew up there. I have a freind who lives in coopersville, and I make it over there about 3 or 4 times a season. We fish the Grand or the "getto" as we call it, a fair amount to rack up some numbers, but those streams up north are like little treasures to me. Fishing on the Grand this fall is past amazing it was stupid. This picture should bring back some fond memories.

The only reason that these fish are so bad is that they thrive in the dammed up lakes. In a river they are much smaller and fewer. Just go look at the shore lines in Mayfield Lake by the State Park. There are thousands of these things in just a small area.

Have to comment the bull trout in our local waters. While it is true that they are definitely a major fish eater they are part of the natural ecosystem and play a healthy role in the system. In fact they are an excellent indicator of the over all health of a river system. They require high quality habitats in the headwaters for spawning and early rearing, access to the estaury and near shore marine waters as well as a health forage base.

When caught on appropriate sized tackle they provide a spunky fight and have supply an interesting diversion many otherwise slow days on the river.

Bob -

You said "That being said, if we try to manage one population and not the others (this could be seen both in few numbers - bulls/dollies or big numbers - seals/sea lions), there's gonna be problems!" I could not agree more. That is one reason I find it so surprising that many anglers are willing to harvest salmon (chinook, coho, pinks, etc) from a health population but insist on mandatory wild steelhead release everywhere. Isn't targeting harvest on most species (salmon) found an ecosystem while protecting another (steelhead) just another example manage one population and not the others? Are there only problems when the protected species is not one we care about?

Tight lines
Smalma

Downtime- where are you now? Yeah, we did have a helluva fall run this year. Nice photo, you still centerpinning (or is that a 2-hander)?

bombcast I'm in milwaukee right now. That fish was on a centerpin at good old 6th street. I was in Michigan last thursday through Sunday, was planning on fishing through wensday but the single digit temps and no one to fish with was a real turn off. We fished the betsie, Big Man and the PM. We fished the PM for three of the days cause I want to know that river fairly well since it is a river perfectaly suited for float fishing. Fished it for three days, we hit fish everyday no real big numbers but that is winter steel fishing for ya. You guys have it lucky over there with all the beautiful steams especially up north, and all the wild fish to boot. Sounds like you guys fall was spectaciular, the numbers my freinds were giving me were jaw dropping. Shoot me an e-mail some time, next time I'm in Michigan I will let you know and maybe we can hook up and do some fishing.