Exactly Skywalker, Sounds good, Seems like this B.S comes around a couple of times a year.
But in the end no one will put there money where there mouth is and man up.
Peace Superfly

Brat Bonker,
I hate to tell you this but they quit making the Good loomis's when you were about 6 years old.
But it is great to see the youth on this board excited about fishing, keep it up!!!!!
Peace Superfly

This debate reminds me of the Mustad vs Eagle Claw debates of years ago!
If you fish big fish in heavy water with fine wire hooks they will bend if you really put on the pressure. If bending is a worry just go up to a heavier wire.

Wolverine,
welcome to Dodge vs Ford vs Chevy
I rember growing up fishing Mustad 92553 for everything, then when I was in about 9th grade Gamakatsu showed up and we fished them until I got a life and tired of spending way to much money on hooks.
Peace
Superfly

you the man superfly!

VISION ROCKS!

Looks like we found the "Vision Nazi"

When it comes to steelhead, dont mess around. Owner and Gami are 2 good ones to start with...

Ya know, being a middle aged "rookie" gives one a rather different perspective.

No allegances, no alliances or endorsoments to worry about, and just too ignorant to realize that if the hook is stong enough, sharp enough and of the right design it will do the job intended.

I don't give a rip who's name's on the box or bag, if the critter does the job...be it Eagle Claw, Gammi, Vision or ??? ....well...who cares?

If it's a design issue..and one design is clearly far superior over the other..well, then that changes things a bit, but still, with the quality of production steel and other components available today if a company puts a equal quality hook on the market and stands behind it they are welcome to my business.

This spat reminds me of the issue between traditional archers and modern, compound shooting archers. Always looking to compete in one way or another.

Superfly: (Rather terse comments edited out).

Your website shows you own Vision Hooks and tackle. You might consider attempting to find ways to share your knowledge without making your potential customer feel like an idiot, especially if they are younger and perhaps not as experienced as you. You might be making yourself feel better by a "jab" or two at an individual...but what do all the people think who don't really know your product, or you?

Any company survives and profits in this competitive world by building long-term relationships with customers, both old a new, and brand name loyalty based on product performance. It's clear that many here have strong loyalty to brands, based on experience and satisfaction with a product, but if people don't buy your product, no matter if it is indeed superior, then it is YOUR loss, not theirs.

By your comments in this thread are you building respect with/from your potential customers?

Yeesh...and btw, I do use Eagle Claw hooks, as well as Gammi's, and would happily use Vision's if they do the trick!

Mike B

Maybe if the other hook companies would come up with a really cool decal that the guys could slap on the back window of their truck they might make a few converts. Marketing and promotion is the name of the game in any industry. Everybodys got a steak, you have to sell the sizzle!
Anybody got Gammi or Loomis tattoos?

Well Mike,
I never poked any fun at the younger board members, just commented on what they said.
Secondly the youth is where the strength is in any movement whether it is sportsfishing or politics, the youth are the ones with the most fire and passion.
I also never claimed to no more then any one.
I was just stating my opinions as they did, so in retrospect you are saying it is okay for them to state there opinions, but since I work for or represent Vision that I cannot. That makes this whole argument very one sided, don't you think.
Also I noticed your registration number was like 5200 or so, that would make you fairly new here. I am under 1000 so I have been in this same argument numbers of times over the past four years and it is always the same, so it gets a little old after a while.
Like anything else on this board, it is just my opinion.
Peace
Superfly

I have seen a number of guys with the fear no fish tatoo. Cool art, to bad it is not something of there own. Good for Loomis from an advertising stand point.
Peace
Superfly

I made a personal note to myself a couple years ago to never associate myself with any of the products represented by superfly. It has been clear that there are serious quality issues.

Plus the fact that his posts are consistently caustic and confrontive. For example: "[Bleeeeep!] the Republicans and their agenda" was just one of his many kernals of wisdom. Pretty classy, huh?

Peace
SlabQuest

superfly ive been looking for vision hooks can u tell me what store has them i want to try them out

3 rivers Marine I believe is your closest location to you.
Peace Superfly

I think the biggest test on hook strength comes in the salt via a drive by from a Coho or 'Nookie, when they smack it real hard to stun your bait.. In all my fishing experiences, I think you are putting the maximum amount of stress on your hardware during those types of strikes. Hits on plugs come in second, then on down the line. I have had some serious takedowns and Vision hooks held up just fine . Same thing goes with alot of other major manufacturers. I have also had them all break on me.


I, probably like many of you, have used Vision and Gammys and Eagle Claw, Mustads, and Owners ...and probably a couple no-namers through the years. You get good hooks and bad ones in any batch. Most of them dont break, some do, **it happens.

For alot of you who have posted on this topic now and in the past, listen to the guys here who either catch or help people catch hundreds or thousands of fish per year. If you have 20 or 30 punches on your card, you dont have near the information pool these guys to from which to draw conclusions and opinions.

Vision Hooks:
Catch Fish
Great Price
Great Quality
Great Customer Service

hmm yup they are GREAT

Joe and Justin keep them comin! they are off the HOOK my brotha's,


Travis

amen to that catcher!

Joe,

I may be new to the board, but I'm not some kid, and have fished over 40 years and done just fine. Yes, I am new to steelheading..its a grand adventure and its a true blessing to have a forum like this where other victims of the same rabid disease seem to reside.

Now, as to your comments and response:

"I never poked any fun at the younger board members,"

Perhaps I misread your intent with these comments, and if so I do apologize:

"Same old B.S. I would not expect anything more out of You A.K. Just a BIAAAAATTTTCCCCHHH
and Sullie, How many years experience do you have? Your maybe all of 15 or 16 ???"

Seems not to be a positive and supportive comment, no? Further comments to Bonker made the issue seem even worse.

I guess the whole point of the comments I made was based on a quote that I have always run my business by:

"Goodwill is the one thing the competition can never undersell or destroy."

Operating my business with the above as a "mission statement" has allowed me to succeed in areas where others have failed. I sell very expensive instrumentation in a competitive market. To even get the chance to get into the "ballgame" and provide a quote I first need to be able to sit down with the customer and help them determine what they need, whether its from a company I rep. or someone else's.

If you build the relationship with PEOPLE and provide a quality product, the business will come.

Yeah, I'll try your hooks, in fresh and salt water, as suggested, and I'm sure they will do fine. I do look forward to someday in the future where we can sit down over a Buddummer or two and figure out what I can do to get some success on these Steelies!

Wishing you all the best of success..

Mike B

Call the argument what you will. Thats why the world is round.

I will say this of Vision, and Mr. Superfly. He is for all intensive purposes a one man show. The little guy. How would you like to be the guy that owned a small tackle shop and had Sportco move in next door? Or if you owned the family hardware store and Home Depot came into town?
I relate that to joe competing with the Gamakatsu's and Eagle Claws of the world. I am a big fan of supporting LOCAL business. Any of you guys that have had a hook break, or busted an all star ever give Joe a call? See what he had to say or offer before you start busting his nuts on the internet? I have seen it several times on here now where Vision is getting slammed, and Superfly is backed into a corner - sure he gets ticked off. I would too.
Competing with the big names in the industry is a tough deal. His hooks get better every season, and every season fishing gets tougher. More competiton - dwindling runs, no water - too much water. Seems like fishermen inherently need something or someone to complain about.
For the love. If you have a bad hook in a batch, mail it to Joe and get a new hook to replace it. If you bend a hook or break one off in a fish, check your dang drag and quit horsing them so hard.
Support the local business. Loomis used to be local - we all know that story. Vision is local now - give them your support, or at least dont slander their name all over the web.

IMHO Chevy

Jerry, I would respectfully ask you to close this thread - every time we have been here, no good has come out of it. This is worse than the liberal vs. conservative biatching that we do.