Hey Todd...can you guys get your own website? Bob might have to get a bigger server. Also can you guys publish the Cliff Notes version of your debate. I can contribute as follows:

Wild steelhead need protection
Wild steelhead should be released if caught
Wild steelhead may not need protection
Wild steelhead don't need to be released.
Nets catch wild steelhead
Nets are good
Nets are bad
Indians need to net wild steelhead to survive
Indians feed wild steelhead to their dogs

Indians don't catch that many wild steelhead

Grandpa,

Don't forget these...

Fishermen don't ever kill wild steelhead, anyway, they just want the opportunity to do so.

Indians have the best managed fishery in the world on the Quinault.

Indians are the worse at managing fisheries.

The runs are healthy, so we should have the opportunity to harvest wild fish, even though we won't.

The runs are so unhealthy that we shouldn't even have WSR.

WSR advocates want all fishing to end.

WSR advocates only want themselves to fish.

WSR advocates want all hatcheries to close.

WSR advocates don't like to eat fish.

WSR advocates are flyfishermen.

WSR advocates are going to go to jail for taking fish out of the water.

WSR advocates kill more fish than the bonkers.

WSR means we don't kill any fish, so the Indians will take them.

We have to kill fish to save them.

WDFW is right about the runs being healthy.

WDFW is wrong about everything else.

WDFW is experts about healthy steelhead on the OP.

WDFW is not experts on anything else.

WDFW is in the tribes' pockets.

WDFW should fight the tribes.

WDFW can't fight the tribes.

WDFW doesn't have the balls to fight the tribes.

Fish caught upstream of nets will end up in nets, anyway.

If you really love wild steelhead, you should want to have the opportunity to harvest them.

WSR advocates are not sportsmen.

WSR advocates are elitist sportsmen.

WSR advocates don't want anyone to catch wild steelhead.

The Wild Salmonid Policy is a law that's been broken.

The Boldt decision is not law.

There are no wild steelhead.

Calling someone a "scumbag" is not a personal attack...telling someone else that they're wrong is a personal attack.


Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I know you're up north, but are you going to come down for the Eastside PSA meeting on Wednesday night? If so, I was hoping to meet you there.

Grandpa and Todd, you guys captured it perfectly. I'm not certain that there is much left to be said, however, if you two get together I expect that may spark something.

post #515


Page 11 (4 pages back)

This is really way to funny Eddie!

Now where did this board hear that one before ?

Dont stop now boys...we are half way to a thousand!

This thread gives a new meaning to "taking on a life of its own".... I agree with Eddie, though, not much else to be said after Grandpa's and Todd's condensed versions,

WSR.... yes, life is good.

If you guys really want to start a research project try this question:

Why don't chickens pi$$?

Holy smokes! Could someone give me a summary of the last four or five pages I missed. Must've been some lively conversation going on.

peace out..........

You can no longer go to Disneyland and kill the mice, you will just have to go for the ride(s).

Gutz

I have got to fish with you sometime, you crack me up. Good one.

Better late than never. The best example of a native run rebounding is the Nooksack river.
It by far has the best return year after year. Granted the earlier, Dec, till mid January run componit, is basclicly gone. This river went from the worst run in the early 80's in puget sound, to now what is very good. The Nooksack has been cnr since the 80's and I can tell you that it is one of the best. Trout unlimited vollentiers for the past three years have been doing stream surveys in spring for spawning fish and are just now getting a handle on what really is going on.
I think that is one example that has not been included in any thinking. I beleive it really does make a difference and the nooksack is a prime example. I am sure I will get a lot of greif about this post from the Bellingham boy's, now that the cat is out of the bag.

Question

Were most of the remaining rivers that had allowed harvest of wild steelhead located directly inside the Olympic National Park area?

In compliance with RCW 34.05.320 requiring a "Notice of proposed rules" to the public in order to assure "public participation" in accordance with "Chapter 34.05 RCW" titled the "ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE ACT" notice was published as WSR 03-21-174 as referred to in WSR 04-01-035, the final notice. The following has been copied from that public notice.
See: http://slc.leg.wa.gov/wsr/2003/21/03-21-174.htm


The proposed rules that the public was misled into believing that the Commission intended to vote on included the 11 following Specific freshwater exceptions to statewide rules allowing the retention of Wild Steelhead.

...Bogachiel River (Clallam County), from mouth to Olympic National Park boundary: June 1 through April 15 season. December 1 through April 15, selective gear rules from Highway 101 to Olympic National Park boundary. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, mouth to Highway 101, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Calawah River (Clallam County), from mouth to forks: June 1 through April 15 season. December 1 through April 15, selective gear rules from Highway 101 to forks. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, mouth to Highway 101, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Clearwater River (Jefferson County): From mouth to Snahapish River: June 1 through April 15 season. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Dickey River (includes all forks) (Clallam County): June 1 through April 15 season. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Goodman Creek (Jefferson County) outside Olympic National Park: June 1 through last day in February season. Trout, minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through last day in February one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Green (Duwamish) River (King County):
a) From the First Avenue South Bridge to SW 43rd Street/South 180th Street Bridge: One wild steelhead per day may be retained July 1 through July 31 and September 16 through November 30.
b) From the SW 43rd Street/South 180th Street Bridge to South 277th Street Bridge in Auburn: One wild steelhead per day may be retained July 1 through July 31 and October 1 through November 30.
c) From the 277th Street Bridge to Auburn-Black Diamond Road Bridge: One wild steelhead per day may be retained July 1 through July 31 and October 16 through November 30.
d) From the Auburn-Black Diamond Road Bridge to the Tacoma Headworks Dam: One wild steelhead per day may be retained July 1 through November 30.

...Hoh River (Jefferson County): December 1 through April 15, from mouth to DNR Oxbow Campground Boat Launch: Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches and one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Pysht River (Clallam County): June 1 through last day in February season. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. One wild steelhead per day may be retained December 1 through last day in February.

...Quillayute River (Clallam County): Open year-round. April 16 through May 31 release all fish except up to two hatchery steelhead per day may be retained. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.

...Quinault River, Upper (Jefferson County), from mouth at upper end of Quinault Lake to the National Park boundary: June 1 through April 15 season. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. One wild steelhead per day may be retained December 1 through April 15.

...Sol Duc River (Clallam County): Open year-round. April 16 through May 31 release all fish except up to two hatchery steelhead per day may be retained. Selective gear rules from the concrete pump station at the Soleduck Hatchery to the Highway 101 Bridge downstream of Snider Creek November 1 through April 15, and from the Highway 101 Bridge to Olympic National Park June 1 through October 31. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. December 1 through April 15, from mouth to the concrete pump station at the Soleduck Hatchery, one wild steelhead per day may be retained.


The following 3 proposed Specific freshwater exceptions to statewide rules removed wild steelhead harvest exceptions:

...Kalaloch Creek (Jefferson County), outside Olympic National Park: June 1 through last day in February season. Selective gear rules. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. (new: wild steelhead may no longer be retained.)

...Mosquito Creek (Jefferson County), outside Olympic National Park: June 1 through last day in February season. Selective gear rules. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. (new: wild steelhead may no longer be retained.)

...Salmon River (Jefferson County): June 1 through last day in February season. Trout: Minimum length fourteen inches. (new: wild steelhead may no longer be retained.) Hatchery steelhead in this river are steelhead with a dorsal fin height of less than 2-1/8 inches or with an adipose or ventral fin clip.

Plunker

You're like a shark!

All it takes is a little blood in the water, and your there!

I guess another email to the commission is in order.

commission@dfw.wa.gov

Goodness Cowlitz - I guess I'll take that as a complement.

I might add that somewhere in RCW Title 77 it states that:
"The commission acts in an open and deliberative process that encourages public involvement and increases public confidence in department decision making."

My confidence cup is certainly overflowing with wonderment.

So, what's the issue? It looks like the Commission did vote on those 11 proposed rules, they just didn't approve them.

"Question:

Were most of the remaining rivers that had allowed harvest of wild steelhead located directly inside the Olympic National Park area?"

Short answer:

No.

Wonderful news ! Wild is what it's all about We really need to take better care of the "wild" fish, (IMO) Please handle them gently and release them without removing them from the water. Thanks.

Louis

Yeah, wild steel the size of a yard stick is what its really all about...

What do you guys think the future beholds as far as hatchery fish goes???

1) Wild broodstock
2) No hatchery fish
3) or same ol' chambers creek