Kanektok Kid sent this picture to me yesterday of a very large bugrod caught steelie...




...yes you are doing it right! I have taught you well...

Kanektok Kid

There's no substitute for leading by example. BTW nice fat fish!

nice edit job!

That wan't an edit job. Look at the wrinkles on the jacket. They're different. I think we have a future law breaker here!

Hey I am all for this knew catch and release with wild steelhead. But keeping fish in the water is a little to far. I know there are some idiots out there that bring them in the boat, grab them by the gills then let them go. But what is a guide suppose to do when he has a 92 year old lady that has know waders, who you take for free cause she loves steelhead fishing and cant afford waders. Plus can hardly get in and out of the boat. Let me see I am suppose to hold on to the fish in the water, Cary here to shore, lay flat on my back so she can bend over far enough to get into the picture all while keeping this fish in the water. I think there needs to be an exception to this rule for guides. Pass a catch and release coarse or something. Hell BOb could even put it on. Since the state doesn't know the proper guide lines to follow for releasing fish.

FJ15

That second pic of KK's awesome steelhead is still 100% legal according to the new rules that go into effect in less than a month and a half. The fish is still "in the water" by their definition.

The thing to remember about this law is that it really doesn't affect anyone who already knows how to properly handle a fish. If you feel the new law will cramp your style, chances are you could probably learn a thing or two about handling fish.

OUCH - Since most of the pix on Bob's site (including most of the host's) dont meet the new rule, are you suggesting they dont know how to handle fish properly?



OR.... maybe the law is a little too extreme! Probably would have been received better if it just said a fish to be released needs to be held over the water at all times.

A minor modification in handling technique for photos is not going to "cramp the style" of responsible fish handlers. These guys aren't going to mind keeping one of their hands in the water to keep part of the fish in the water. That's the only thing they will have to do different to stay in compliance with the new rule. Aside from that, these guys will still use the same TLC that they always have. That's really the jist of what I was getting at in my original post. Guess I should have said "really doesn't affect them in any significant way"

And one more thing.... it's not about the law being too extreme. It's about too damn many whiners! Like I said before, good fishermen adapt their technique to changing conditions. Conditions are about to change folks.... ADAPT!

WHAT? WHO COULD THIS BE???? is it sparky with a fish out of the water????no say it isnt true

hey thats an idea just turn the fish so you cant see the fins, then I guess you could handle the fish anyway you wanted

DJ

So what have you done in order to try and help the fish?

I KNOW that Ryan would NOT try to decieve anyone about the fish so that would be enough of the innuendo. Ryan knows how to safely handle the fish and is willing to sacrifice a lifetime of hero shots to help the fish in any way he can. There are alot of people whining that can't say the same thing.

Dang doc, hope you dont get a nose bleed way up there on that soap box! I just pointed out EXACTLY what you said.... Reread it... on that soap box you implied we all need fish handling lessons... from you I presume. The problem is so many big egos acting like they have been doing this for years.... Bet you have a few pix that would get you a ticket too.

The honest to god's truth is that I could care less. I stopped steelheading with any passion a few years back. To many people, not enough rocks to stand on. What I dont like is rules that are unenforceable, therefore a waste of the paper they're printed on. How will this work? a gamey hiding in the bushes, whips out his telephoto lens, zooms in to capture the 1/2 inch gap between the water and the fish, writes a ticket, develops the film just in time to admit it as evidence to an anxiously waiting judge..... and they all live happily ever after!

JG - as I see it, disagreeing with the rule doesn't make it whining. People are allowed opinions, even here.... even if it is opposite of those held by the board's golden boys.

Thanks, but I think I can figure out how to properly handle fish without reading it in print, or without a lesson from the doc.

Lead, I actually teach a fishing class to 4-H,boy/girl scouts and any one else that would like to learn...I especially talk about respecting fish and nature. Im not whinning about any thing infact if I feel like taking a pic I well, I handled many fish with out killing them. I just think time spent teaching respect out-ways making new laws for people to follow...read the posts on what how many fish actually die from hook sets/handling and they way I figure 10 years of mishandling still kills less fish then 1 week of gill netting. lets do something about that then putting guides, cripples,kids etc that like to keep/share memories..DJ

I personally do not like this law, dont worry I wont take any pictures of fish out of the water

OK heres one that I havent thought about, so your drifting eggs for hatchery kings and you hook a fresh brite wild coho (wild coho is closed in the river your fishing) that just in an instant hes up and down the pool you fishing, it flys up stream peeling drag, you realise its a wild fish and you dont want to harm it so you thumb her down hopeing the line well break at/near the hook, she peels left under the pressure of the tight line, right up on the shore she goes, you run to her aid, you grab her and scoot her back into the water right as the game warden rounds the corner...now whats the game warden going to do....the ones I have talked to well do nothing they think its a dumb law too. but they do like the fact that they have just one more tool to hassel someone that they have judged to be troublesome or not good sportsmen......this is where I get mixed feelings I have seen the people that inspired sparky to do what he did, and dont like it either, But now we are letting/ expecting the enforcement officers to judge someones sportsmenship..Im not saying that all the wardens well abuse the power but there well be a few bad apples in every box. ..I can see someone getting the shaft over personal conflects with-in there community and wont be able to do a thing...

DJF-

The gamie I spoke to also thought it was a dumb law and tough to enforce... but what do they know

Here's something else... So your shore fishing and you hook a toad a lot like the fish that FishnPhysician is holding in his avatar image.

You play the fish for 25-40 minutes from run to run at times. As the fish becomes tired you drag him up onto the watery shoreline but being such a big fish he's thrashing everywhere, as he knows he's been beat. Then you tussle around trying to get your favorite offering out of his mouth, digging for pliers while still trying to hold the fish down doing the best you can so he won't get away.

You've landed a beast and now it's time to dig a little further for the camera as the sand and gravel he's thrashing in is pluming out his gills.. YOU BEGIN TO FEEL A BIT SORRY FOR THE FISH AS YOU CAN'T SEE HIS HEAD ANY LONGER DO TO THE SAND and smuck plumes. So you lift him out of the water and there you've done it. You've broke the ultimately stupid law of all.

You still need to snap them photos and then revive the fish. Most would say "oh no, I'd never drag a fish up into the shallows I don't want to harm the fish... But realisticly it would probably be best if you hung your gear up and did no damage at all. Perhaps that's what some of us should do.

A fish out of the water for 15-30 seconds doesn't have anymore of a impact than the story I told... I wish people would wake up and realize the direction they are taking this.

Mark my word it won't be 10 years and we will only be able to stand along the shorelines of these native only rivers and tell stories of the past, how fun it was back when you could actually make a cast and fish these waters.

You'll have to be proud to tell your kids someday, I supported many of the stupid laws that led to fishing closures and that's why you can't fish.
Keith

I find it interesting that when talking about hooking mortality, some people say that steelhead are "tougher" than we think then some people go on in threads like this kind of saying the opposite.

What is it?

Are they "tougher" than we think or are they so delicate that we can't remove them from the water for a photo?

skip skip skip

I take then that you don't have any thoughts on my question Lead Thrower??

Just tired of the entire negativity about not removing the fish from the water part of your posts

I take pictures of all my fish... fin or no fin

I think you must have me mistaken for someone else Lead Thrower. I believe the only thing that I've really said about it was that there probably should be some kind of handicap exemption.

I'm starting to think that you just just have a problem with anyone that doesn't agree with your line of thinking.

Too funny! I personally thought the question in my post added much more food for thought than the last couple posts.

I'd still like to hear anyone else's thoughts about it..

Sometimes people dont like what they come up with when they think too hard... things that sound good on the surface are much easier to defend.

Bruce,

Review the "hooking mortality" thread. In summary, Canadian studies found hooking mortalities between 3.6 and 5.1%. The 3.6 figure was from broodstock collection efforts during which, if a fish was bleeding it was let go instead of carted to the spawning facilities, so the figure is probably a little low. The 5.1 figure counted all fish and mortalities on one river over 2 winters (336 total fish caught; 17 mortalities), but fish were caught by biologists or techs with a great deal of fish handling experience. Again, considered somewhat of a low number.

Given the general and wide-ranging experience level of most sporties, the Canadian managers generally assume a figure of twice that of above--i.e., 7-10% hooking mortality.

Given the data, and how it was collected (and who), I think its pretty reasonable to assume that if you release fish in the Sparkyesk fashion, hooking mortality would more likely approach those found by the Canadians--say 4-5 percent. Any more handling, and the percentage just increases dependent upon how much. This is probably the most important point; that you can MAXIMIZE the survivability of the fish.

I can see how enforcement will be tough with this one, but I think fishermen should view it as: yes, the fish needs all of its scales and it needs to breath to live. Gamies should probably view it as the old saying: "I don't know how to define porn, but I know it when I see it"

I don't think lifting the fish out of the water for a few seconds to get a hero shot will hurt the fish, but have the camera out and ready to shoot (how long can you hold your breath after running a 440). I personally won't take pics of a fish when I'm by myself just because of this and the hassles that Sthder 1 stated in his example.

The debate here is probably good just because it raises awareness that 5 seconds out of the water is ok; 15-30 seconds--hurry up and take the damn shot; anything more and you really bump up that mortality percentage. I really don't think the gamies are going to enforce it unless they witness someone being a real a**hole.

All in all I agree with the new reg, because I've fished in Canada. Those folks know how to release fish. Sockeye during the closures, wild coho, wild steelhead; hell even pinks in the Vedder (natures fertilizer) are all released with feet in the water, holding only the line, and using a pair of pliers. The worlds not ending up there; PETAs not taking over; fishing privileges aren't going down the tubes.

Why not just make it like a hunting license. You have to pass a class on how to handle fish properly? It's not like the law will ever be enforced.

I suppose guides should start getting ticketed for netting natives to get their favorite plugs back??

Again as I mentioned above, keep the whining up and creating the new laws and someday we won't have a fishery for the native fish... They'll just shut it down and we'll all stand on the shore and stare.. Again, telling our kids that there are people in this world that were born stupid and I'm glad I'm not one of them...

I mean really, why is it that sportsmen or so called sportsmen want to micro manage and control something so insignificant.. Perhaps we could focus our strengths on other true factors to native fish declines...

I don't know about most out there but the fishing the last few years has been unreal for native fish around here... I can gaurantee it's not from the sportsmens but the lack of over harvesting along with great ocean conditions...

Keith

Naw, they were probably caught by hung-over college students working for minimum wage and a few credits. I was there once, but I think the carp and gar we caught are less sensitive than steelhead when it comes to how they are handled.

As I've mentioned several times this law makes me sick... Take a native steelhead on a stream close to home here, matter of fact where the state record is held... The East Fork of the Lewis and you've got 3 good sets of falls... I'm not sure if any of those on the board here have seen what steelhead do at a falls of seriousness do but.....

I've seen these fish try and jump the falls time and time again.. Sometimes jumping and sliding out of the fast water and ending up on the shoreline.. Sitting there for 20-30 seconds before they flop several times back into the river...

UH-OH SPARKEYS LAW WAS BROKEN... Better get a gamie and write these fish a ticket, they were completely out of the water... Nature it's self accomodates situations worse than those of humans at times....

For all that it matters I have to say it's the most stupid law I've ever seen..

It's like a cop busting a dude for going 65 in a 60 when he could be off investigating and busting a drug dealer...

If anyone understands this, then you are not a idiot for those that don't then read between the lines..
Keith

Steelhead are tougher than you think (quote stolen from smalma), I am not a hungover college student working for minimum wage and I am not an idiot.

I don't blame the folks out on the OP for being a little upset about some of the recent events that have taken place. A couple of the latest rulings supported by many members here and passed by the commission are a double whammy for them.

There are 4000 members here on this board, of those 4000 members probably only a small percentage are actually active members and of those active members a good percentage probably support the latest rulings. There are 385,979 licensed anglers in the State of WA most of which probably will think twice before heading to the OP this year. The small percentage of active members here do not reflect the views of the 385,979 anglers in WA. I know a LOT of anglers and most of them have said that they will either be cancelling their OP trip or just not going this year.

Bruce

That was very well stated!

Cowlitzfisherman

Even if your figures were correct we're still talking about roughly 40,000 anglers.

Using a dollar figure that I think is close based on personal experience. $200 spent for a trip to the OP.

40,000 * $200 = $8000000

Maybe the people of Forks have a good reason to be concerned and I would bet that that number is even higher especially when you take guided trips into account.

These numbers also do not reflect anglers that go more than once a year.

I seen probably 951 anglers on the Bogachiel on day last year and they all had rooms booked in Forks, had few beers at the local pub, had some dinner at the local greasy spoon and gased up their rigs for the trip home.

Actually I don't think that number is unreasonable, but I would be interested in any numbers that you come up with.

I've been trying to get the total numbers of steelhead punchcards issued, but haven't been able to yet.

I think the person you would want to talk to is Susan Marki with WDFW. I'll PM you her number.