When confronting a poacher, why be non confrontational? I'm serious. Unless you are afraid of being hurt, which only each individual can determine for themselves, why pussyfoot around with some clown who is obviously breaking the law and knows it?

I just ran some SOB out of the creek here (closed to fishing for the last 30 years or so), and there was no coddling, believe me. This turd was dressed in camo, with sunglasses, steelhead rod, and machette. I asked him "WTF do you think you are doing?" He says, "Just taking a walk." I yell at him, "This creek has been closed for 30 years. Get the F...
out of here, NOW!"

I called it in, but didn't even get a response......and I should be non confrontational? Sorry, Not on my watch!

I have jacked up several poachers in my day. Best was the guy with California plates who drives up the road on the day before elk season is open with a 2 pt buck in the back of his truck strapped to a 4 wheeler. Got in my truck and followed him to his camp... deer season was not open. When confronted, he tells me " its just camp meat, no harm in that, whats your problem ??" Told him if I had to explain "my problem"... then its pointless.. I drove 60 miles and got the fish and game to follow me back up there. By the time we got back they had pulled up camp and were just leaving... they claimed that they had no idea what I was talking about... "what deer ??" .. When the warden was searching the rigs he finds the rack from this dinky little two point sawed off the head and stuck under the seat of one of their trucks... they had thrown the deer into a creek and covered it with brush....

It gets better... they were arrested for poaching the deer... and to top it off, as they were in their trucks driving down the road when we arrived... and were drunk... two of them were charged with DUI as well..

Hows that for a phone call home to the wife ??? " Honey I was drunk and poached a deer and got a DUI... can you wire me 5 grand for bail..." I wonder if she said she loved him before she hung up ??? I figure that "camp meat " cost them quite a bit.

You have no idea what kind of low-life you may be running into. Our own poll here showed 50% pack heat. There is no honor in getting shot or having your head cut-off by a poacher with a machete.

It isn't your job and you are not authorized to make these determinations. Legally it doesn't sound like you had any right to accost the poacher. Kind of like trying to arrest a shop-lifter because he looks like he is going to do something. Maybe he was out for a walk(Yah right isn't legal). When you are arrested, the judge isn't going to care that the other guy looked like a poacher.

Write the details down on paper and submit them to the authorities. If you insist on saying something to the poacher, do so from a safe distance and immediately leave the area.

If you continue confronting people, sooner or later the confrontation will escalate to violence and sooner or later no matter how "bad" you think you are, the other guy will be "badder" or "quicker" or maybe just "luckier" and you will be seriously hurt.

So I take it you aren't married, don't have children, or at the very least have great life insurance?

You're right on ET. There are some serious nuts out there looking for a reason to hurt or kill you. A cell phone and good directions are the best way to go. If possible, try and get a vehicle license or other type of ID on the individual. Be patient and stay away from the bad guy until the cops get there. That's what they get paid to do. And...don't create a situation where you may have to use deadly force to defend yourself..you have to live with that until you die.

I'm with you FUN5. I think that the abundance of troublemakers these days is directly related to the fact that most people are too passive to get involved. Do what you feel is right, but always remember this: The public at large (as well as the judicial system) will likely come down on you harder than the guy who's really in the wrong. Maybe you can gain their favor by tattooing a peace sign on your forehead:)

I think you "tough guys" would be singing a different tune if you ever had to care for someone with a gunshot wound, or had to bury a relative who got plugged. The irony is that the "bad guy" might not serve any time in this case because by threatening him (I'm guessing there was mention of an a__-kicking somewhere in your confrontation) and screaming at him, you become the aggressor, and he could easily claim self-defense -- right after he puts some holes in you .

Just please consider the odds that the "bad guy" very well might be armed, and possibly stoned, drunk, or just plain high-strung. I sure don't want to read another obit on this BB .

Big word of caution to anyone who follows this line of thinking. You better make dam sure your right! before you try anything with a suspected poacher.

I have had know it all do gooders come up to me when I was fishing totally legal and tell me I was fishing closed waters, and were persistant enough they needed and recieved an attitude adjustment. People like that chap my hide worse then almost anyone.

Ain't worth it to me, I have a wife and 2 kids to think about, I may report them but I sure as hell won't confront them.

I have never offered an ass kicking... I went out of my way to contact the proper authoritys . I won't stand and argue with a poacher , but I will spend the rest of my day turning him in to the correct authoritys....

P.S... I did want to kick these guys ass... but knew that the law could do it better... harder and longer..... Do the same if you care about your whatever... This ain't the wild west anymore ....

P.S Crank heads don't go fishing, they go stealing... put them in jail where they belong.

Hmmmm interesting topic... Speaking of Machette's(sp). I was wading a small remote river a few days ago...No houses, no other fisherman, no fish . About 2 miles into my journey, i came around a corner and noticed a guy laying in the sand about 50 yards below me. It looked like he was asleep. I thought this was a strange place for a non-fisherman to be. I started throwing spoons down this sweet looking run. About 5 minutes later I glanced downriver at the guy and holy crap, he has his head up while holding up a machette or big knife in one hand while still laying in the sand. I wasnt packing heat, and didnt feel like pulling any undercover brotha b.s so i got the hell outa there. (while looking over my shoulder with stick in hand all the way back to my truck)

Just went to show me that there are wackos out there and you never know when you will find one. Avoid confrontations at all costs...you never know

Come on tell us the truth.

... they were bigger than me

Here's a follow-up ..... I found out who the fella was today, and also found out, "You scared the Hell out of him."

Never did hear back from "the Law"..... sweet, ain't it?

When I had time to think about it later, I should have taken a camera and a cell phone connected to the State Patrol, and maybe the .45 ..... hind sight is sometimes more clear, but the overall outcome I think was very good.

Here's some data for you guys. I've got a wife, six kids, and eight grandkids ..... and you know what? .... I can look them all and anyone else in the eyes. I don't go looking for fights, but I don't run from them, either. Won some, lost some ...... and I like who I am.

Addicts get away with what they do because most folks are too afraid to do anything. I think folks who rely on cops to take care of them will all be ultimately disappointed. I don't plan on being one of them. I'll give the cops their chance, all right, but I don't plan on relying on them.

Maybe when my friends and family are patting me in the face with a shovel someone will say, "He shoulda..................." But I doubt it.

Great. You know who he is. He knows who you are.

When you find your tires slashed, your boat vandalized, your shed burning or run into some other unfortunate run of luck, at least you will have an idea of who it might be..... sleep well.

i will play both sides of the fence on this one. you just have to take each instance and decide whats best for both parties.lots to consider!

CHRIST, I would rather die doing what i believe in than dying at an old age wondering what it would have been like to have the NADS to really live.BUT i will continue to be smart about each circumstance, and handle it accordingly.
P.S. If you ever wonder why the sports fisherman here in washington get the shaft all the time, just go back and read some of the spineless,head-turning, let some one else take care of it responses in this post, That should answer all the questions you have about that question.

SomethingSmellsFishy wrote: ............CHRIST, I would rather die doing what i believe in than dying at an old age wondering what it would have been like to have the NADS to really live................


I agree with you 110%. The difference between you and me is that what I believe in most is being there to raise my kids and support my wife. If the guy gets away with poaching some fish because all I did was call the people that we pay to handle these issues, then I'm okay with that. Don't get me wrong, I care about our fisheries, but not as much as my family.

Let's weigh the risks: Risk the bad fisherman getting away. VS Risk my wife being alone and my kids having no daddy.....

Call me stupid, ignorant, or a coward, but that's a pretty simple choice, if you ask me.

OK..I guess it's time to chime in again. I know from first hand experience that many situations, which have ended tragically and senslessly, did not have to happen at all and only did because someone couldn't swallow thier pride. There is nothing wrong with pointing out to someone that they are violating a regulation or rule. It's all in the approach. For more serious violations, if you think there should be enforcement, you need to make a report. Yeah..sometimes the cops can't drop whatever they're doing to rush over. That's where you guys who feel the need to do something have to step up and insist that law enoforcement investigate the incident. Follow through and make sure it was dealt with. If it wasn't , talk to that cop's supervisor. It's easy to puff up on this site and act tough. As a person who's seen way more that my share of violent death, it really isn't worth it unless you have to defend yourself and you better be right. The vast majority of violent death that I have had to deal with was not "self defense", which is the only reason to use deadly force. Even then the state uses the "reasonable man" standard. If you think that judges and juries agree with the wild west mentality, think again. By the way..now that some of these posts have affected my pride a bit..just to let you know, I am afraid of no man. Some people err greatly when they mistake passivity for fear. Only fools who haven't seen, dealt, or been affected by violent death take it lightly. Do anyone think that confrontational situations can't go beyond a little fistfight? I personnaly don't want to feel as if I have to pack a weapon to enjoy fishing. If you do, maybe you're in the wrong sport. I'm done with this topic.

All right time to clarify, I have seen other fisherman biatch and conplain about some other guy on the bank or river,whatever, and NEVER say anything to that person. I do! I love my wife and kids and will not let something stupid interfer with that, but i will let my voice be heard. I have and will tell people that what they are doing is against the law.BUT i will use my greatest weapon against them, and that is my mind, I will not step on a land mine, but i will do everything in my power to see that that person pays for their transgression. What galls me most is when others see what is going on and Do Not say anything, That is what contributes to the mentality of the poacher getting away with what they do. If we do not help patrol our resouces then who will?
Only a fool would put there life,liberty and health in danger willing. That does not mean that SOMETHING can't be done....

SSF....I did not mean to imply that you didn't care about your family. I'm sure that you do. It also sounds like your priorities are similar to mine. I just feel that as fathers/husbands we need to consider situations that could be dangerous and determine the propper course of action based on our safety. Sometimes you can talk to a guy. Other times you better run fast.

Geez, it seems like the people on this board are all armed and pissed off! Hasn't anyone here heard the saying "It's easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar"?

Seriously, the best tactics when dealing with poachers are to be nice and non-threatening (e.g. "Any luck?", "What are ya after?" etc...) and then gently suggest that the area is closed ("Yeah? I seem to remember something about them closing this stream a while back for those fish. I could be wrong, though. You got a copy of the regs?"). This lets them know that you (while friendly) are on to them. Most poachers seem to move on at this point. Suggesting alternative legal waters/lands as a better option also gives an extra push ("I'm not sure this creek is open, but I do know that the Zipperlip is open. They say they might have a good run this year on the Zipperlip, so you might want to check that out if it's suchandsuch fish that you are after.")

If they persist or are unrepentant, give them a friendly tip that enforcement does happen...("I don't know...there have been an bunch of gamies up here in the last month.")
Let them know the penalties, too. Don't call it poaching, though - people get upset and confrontational at that word. Use "fishing/hunting out of season". ("They got one guy around here last year for fishing out of season...took his boat and fined him a bunch, too. Seems harsh, but ya gotta pay attention to the calendar, I guess.")

If they don't get the clue at this point, bid them adieu, note their description/license plate, and head for a phone to call WDFW. Their phone numbers are available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/enf/enforce.htm . I generally have at least one on my speed-dial on my cell phone. Tell the agent to not have the officer act as if responding to a call, but rather as if simply on patrol. WDFW folks seem to understand personal safety issues in this regard and have always obliged me.

Just my $0.02!

ET is right on the money!!!

The one time I confronted a "poacher," he threatened to "put 2 .44 slugs in my head." Nice. The kids were quite impressed by this dramatic display of "manly" behavior

I don't know if he was bluffing (probably) or not, but I didn't stick around to find out. I guess I'm a "coward." :p

One thought I haven't heard mentioned is that a heavy-handed confrontation, besides being a potential threat to someone's life and limb, may actually do very little good. Sometimes I'm sure its gotta be smarter to keep quiet, rport the activity, and hope for the best.

The deer poacher post above is a good example. Hard as it may be, not saying anything to the guy would do much less to put him on the alert. He knew someone was on to him, and they had packed up and were leaving because of it. It was lucky they weren't long gone before the warden got there. Without a big confrontation they would probably have been sitting around the fire eatin' backstrap.

Worked in that case anyway, but sometimes the non-alerting method might be best.

When I was 20 I had "NADS" and joined the Marine Corps. If I learned one thing it was that people with "NADS" bleed like everyone else, just more frequently and often times unnecessarily.

At 40 I intend to keep using my "NADS" as long as possible and getting capped by a strung-out poacher is not my idea of "really living".

I think Yeticaster has come up with a great way to deal with these types of situations. At least it makes sense to me, but then I always keep my tail tucked between my legs.

Yeti reminded me of a time when we were fishing a no bait lake for trout when the warden walks up & checks us. We tell him the guys down the lake are using bait. He goes down there & busts em. He brings them back to his car & as he passes us he sez, "Thanx for the tip" The 2 guys gave us a dirty look. I didn't think they would get taken away & the warden was just going back to give them a ticket. With only 2 cars at the trail head we left right away as we knew they would vandalize our rig. He didn't have to say that.

S.S, Yeti and Finegrain have a great understanding of what i have been trying to say. Just because i feel compelled to do something does not mean that i will be confrontational about it.BUT, I will do something. If someone won't be reasoned with, then i observe and report. If Someone is threatening me, then maybe that should be added to the charges.But the point that i am trying to make, is that as a sportsman, We are the true environmentalists for the resources, and if we do not do what we can to protect and help this resource flourish, then what are we doing out there on the water?
In one of my last comments i said that i would use my greatest weapon against poachers, and that is my mind. Most people want to do things right, and being informed of the transgression will be appretiative of the information. However, if they are there to break the law, then there may be a cavalier attitude, then i would have to deal with that accordingly.BUT, something can be done.I think that more of us here are on the same wavelength than at first we thought...

First off I know which creek FUN5 is talking about and people are starting to get brave and fish it.

But sometimes you have to say something to the people just watch what their mannerisms are at that time.

Poaching is getting just to out of hand and with a shortened staff at the WDFW citizens need to start helping out more.