I can't seem to get a good feel for the bite whether i use fixed or sliding lead or slinky. Sometimes it seems like my weight sharply taps the bottom while other times it will roll on the bottom. On occasion when the line tightens up my line seems to lift off the bottom and pop to the surface prematurely. I am having a hard time of it trying to determine what the right bottom contact frequency is. I know that it is said that the weight should tap every so often, but I just can't seem to get a handle on it.

I know there was a thread for a discussion of this nature last year, but since the stuff hasn't been archived yet I am opening up the discussion again.

Would anyone be willing to give me some pointers.... it would be nice to feel a fish throbbing on the end of the line rather than feeling the tapping of lead all the time.

Switch to a float.

Try clipping small pieces, as small as you can get, off of your lead until you only tick the bottom every couple of seconds. This you you will find the right weight.

Maybe you are fishing the wrong type of water if you can't get a good feel for the bottom. For example, at Blue Creek on the Cowlitz you are lobbing an ounce and a half just to get down to the bottom and halfway through your swing the current forces you gear to the surface. That is a difficult area to fish for a beginner.

Reading water is actually half the battle. In my experience, you aren't going to find fish holding at the head of a run where it is boiling anyways. Steelhead are sort of lazy. They will hold lower in a stretch or in a tailout where the water smooths out and slows down. In that type of water I would be surprised if you would have difficulty reading the bottom and differentiating that from a strike. Once you get a handle on the feel of a strike you can look for fish in more difficult water conditions.

Try adjusting your weight for the depth and speed of the water. I always try to start out with more lead than I need and trim lead length for each drift. Incedentally, I am a slider rig fan. I believe you will be able to feel the fish sooner without having to wait for the current or the fish to pull the slack out of your line and pickup the lead to transmit the resistance to your rod.

For a different approach try ignoring the tapping of the bottom altogether. Instead leave the line just barely slack. You will see (on a shorter cast) the belly of the line bouncing from the bottom contact. As you watch the belly of the line, lift your rod anytime the line stops drifting or comes tight. If it is the bottom, a flick of the wrist should get it drifting again, if it is a fish you will probably know. Don't be afraid to set the hook if you have any doubt. Better to strike on a snag than miss a fish.

There was an excellent thread about this called " I have lost all abitlity to feel the bite" from back on 9-22-03 that covered this better than I can explain. Do a search on the Forum and check it out.
Good luck

What kind of a rod and line are you using?

This is very welcome information. I just started to try the floats out as I really don't seem to feel much. I was hoping this would make it clearer for me. I got a good chance to practice with a bunch of chums, but still never really knew if it was the log or a fish until it moved. I caught a lot but still never could define the feel of a fish on. Much different from other fishing. I will go search for that article.

Thread was "I've lost all ability to feel the bite" from Sept. 21 2003.

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=015030#000004

Just read the whole thread and feel more confused than before. I was told to "watch the line" before. I'm watching it and don't see much. I have never felt a bite, just got lucky with my first silver, and yes it was in the mouth! I have never really felt a bite river fishing. I did have one silver hit and race up-river and snap off, felt that. But really, I am not less intelligent than many of these men out there, I am just not feeling it! And I am reading up to learn so I am not whining for nothing!

MetalheadRon has asked the right question, in my estimation. If you are using a light action rod and expecting to feel the bite, you are essentially wasting your time. Slinkys and sliding leads aggrevate the situation as they too are soft bouncers.

For someone having a hard time feeling what's going on with their gear, use a stiffer rod and enough lead to feel it rap on the rocks. Everytime the drift stops rapping, set the hook like you mean it, don't just lift the rod tip. You will definitely hook up, and the more you do, the more you will be able to differentiate between rocks, sticks, line, and fish (all are clearly different most of the time). Then you can mess with the incidentals.

Or....like Dave says, "Use a float".

So my cheap Walmart rod is better than the new gift rod? I was always more comfortable with it and the man never growled when I pulled at the snags. Now I have a nice rod but am weary to use it as he snarls when I pull at the snags. So, more weight? I just tried the sliding weight as I thought that would help, I feel the bottom, just nothing else. I snagged some whitefish on accident, felt them, thought I actuaLLY had a strong bite with them, sorry whitefish!

First fish where fish are. If you get frustrated bottom bouncing, try floats or spoons. Floats are visual, spoons are direct. If you are committed to learning bb make sure that you have a sensitive rod, the correct wt to get the right bottom contact, keep the slack out of the line, watch the rod tip, and lift if anything feels "different" than the last cast. If after lifting it feels a little "mushy" set the hook.

I use sliding sinker and like to tap the bottom constantly even at the tail out.
The bite will be a tug instead of a tap.

Feeling the bite is harder to explain and get used to than it actually is. I was asking what kind of rod you were using to see if you had a rod that would actually transfer the feeling to your hands. A fast tip rod will allow you to feel the little tugs which by the way can feel just like a 10 inch trout when it is actually a 20 lb. trout. A slow tip doesn't transfer as much to your hands and it is pretty much imperative to watch the tip and the line when using a slower action rod tip. When the lead is bouncing bottom it feels like it is striking objects, when a fish is biting it feels like a tug (just like a little trout most of the time when using rags, beads, corkies or bait), or the line will just stop. I say if you aren't used to the feel then set the hook if it didn't quite feel like bouncing bottom or if the line stops drifting down river. Sometimes when the line stops it will be hung on a object and you will set the hook either pulling it free or loosing your gear or it will be a fish. After a while you will even be able to tell if you are hung on an object or if it is a fish because line stopping on objects as opposed to a fish picking it up have a different feel also. I guess to sum it up and make it as simple as possible look for tug tug instead of clunk clunk and a somewhat softer stop or mushy stop as opposed to a hard stop but always set the hook when in doubt. Check the two rods you have been using and see which one has the faster tip. Stick to that rod until you get the feel then go to the slower action rod if you want. I just wanted to add after reading Onthe Sauks post that I am no expert either and I am more than sure that others on this board have better imput than I.

I'm no expert, and I believe I probably still miss the bite sometimes, but part of it comes from just doing it over and over again. At some point you reach the point where you know when something feels different.

"At some point you reach the point where you know when something feels different."

Yep, its always....."wait a min, that don't feel right,...Hook set...Fish on!"

When I was learning how to drift fish I started off with heaver lead then needed so I knew what everything felt like.

My rod is the Shimano Clarus spinning CSS-86M-2 8'6" medium action, extra fast taper, 9 guide, 8-17lb, 1/4-1oz, 2 piece rod.

I use P-Line which is a blue-gray colored copolymer monofilament line with fairly thin diameter for its line class.

To clear it up, I usually don't use pencil lead much and almost always just go with bass sinkers.

Could my problem be not casting far enough upstream and/or not giving the weight enough time to reach bottom?
Maybe it would help you guys help me to know that I usually fish glacial origin rivers like the Hoh and the Queets.

If I am not bouncing bottom BEFORE my presentation is passing through the slot I am targeting then I make adjustments. I first try casting farther up stream especially if I am casting across a lot of water. Then I will add more lead if needed. Sometimes though there are obstacles that do not permit me to cast up river farther and I may move down stream a little or add weight. Reguardless of what you have to do the point is to be bouncing bottom through as much of the targeted area as possible. I personally like to bounce pretty hard through fast water to slow my presentation down which allows the fish more time to react and grab whatever it is that I am offering them.

Rockhopper.....sounds like a need to change your weight configuration. The line/rod combo sounds fine, but something is needed to change that "sweeping" presentation that you probably are getting with your "bass weight" (I'll assume that means a sliding tear-drop type lead). There are numerous ways to attach a pencil-type weight.....pick one. Set your lead up 18 to 24" above your terminal gear (some water will warrant longer leaders, some water will warrant shorter leaders, I've proposed an all around figure.

There are so many variables, that really what would probably benefit you the most would be to go fishing with someone who is familiar with steelheading. Or maybe to just go where you know there are several fisherman and watch what they do. For instance, I doubt you will find many using bass weights (some may use that on the front end of a worm set-up under a float, but I would suspect that would be about all). Most of all, though.....keep fishing, watching, and concentrating.....it'll come.

Definately switch to pencil lead. Several methods can be used to attach it to your line. I find that fishing from the bank I prefer sliding weights, and in a boat a fixed weight. 1/4" pencil lead and rubber tubing. To rig sliding slip a swivel into 1" of tubing till the swivel is comletely buried in the tubing with the tip of the swivel even with the end of the tube. Very tightly tie (I use kevlar) a couple wraps around the rubber toward the end around one of the eyelets of the swivel, then pull the rubber back over itself and you have a rubber tube with a one swivel eye exposed. I use this methond instead of a snap swivel because the swivel eye will foul less frequently with your mainline in a boil. Cut the lead and place it in the tube. You can easily cut lead off if you need less weight and add a longer piece if you need more weight. As for the bite, it's actually more like the lack of feeling. What I mean is a fish picks the bait up and because the bait is drifting with the current the fish will generally slide back with the bait and take a hold of it, still sliding back down stream. At least initially. You go from feeling all the taps to oddly feeling nothing, but you'll notice something just feels different as a slight feeling of weight will start to build and it will become kinda "mushy". Note that this feeling occurs in about a second btw... have fun with that! SET THE HOOK like your going to slap yourself in the arse with the rod tip. Rarely will you get a fish that smacks that bait and tries to rip the rod from you hands. Once you start to get the feel you start to learn to define that split second. Good Luck!

I use solid core 1/4 pencil lead in a small piece of black rubber hooked to the snap of a regular swivel (not a snap swivel). Main line and leader are tied to the barrel of the swivel. If you snag up bad the weight/rubber will usually break off of the swivel leaving you with the rest of your gear. I always leave slight slack in the line on my drift because I use as light a weight as I can and I feel it gives it a more natural presentation.

So, what does the bite feel like if you are boongoddin'?

Thanks for the advice guys! Next outing to the Queets or Hoh I'll leave those bass sinkers at home and try to "get a feel" for lead/slinkies.

Some like slinkies. I have some and use them occ. but prefer the feeling of good old lead. Usually 1/4". Keep fishing... you'll get it. Soon, a quick look at the water and you will know how much to put on. The clearer the water,the less bottom contact that is necessary. As the water gets more and more colored, the more important it is to slow that bait down and get it in their face and give the fish a little more time to see it and grab it. When the tapping stops and the pulling starts. Set the hook! It feels diff. Set the hook at whatever does'nt feel right.
You can continually keep adjusting your lead, or if your lazy like me. Adjust your cast, up or down stream to get the feel you like. Unless its really snaggy. Then I use more lead and don't cast upstream. You can also spool out some line at the end of your drift if the water is fast and you want too keep the drift going, provided ther is'nt someone close below you.
Use some shrimp oil. I like the gel. Might help.
If you don't like crowds and you fish spots where you might not have too much company. Never pass up the head or tail of the drift. Earlier in this post it was mentioned to head for the fishy water in the drift and that is very good advice if there is other two legged predators in the area. Before you go... hit the head and tail cause maybe knowone else has. You might get a reward.
One more thing...Some times you have to leave the fishing that is close to home and travel to where the fish are.
Just my two cents.... Good luck!