CFM ~ WSC will never support a haverst other than WSR anywhere in this state ever. For them to say anything else is just a smoke screen. I know that you have been told by Bob to quit arguing on this board, but I for one appreciate yours and a few others opposing opinions here. I feel that it is important to see both sides of the issue. Unless you are banned from this board for speaking out then I urge you to continue being a voice here. However I do understand your frustration. Opposing the recent WSR ruling here is kind of like going into one of those cigerette smoke shops and telling the owner to quit selling cigerettes becasue its bad for you.

I can't believe that a FISHERMAN would have to ask which is better.........one fishing trip or 10?

WTF?


What kind of question is that?

DITTO.


IMO, the WSC had ZERO vision when they lobbied to make state-wide WSR policy. Did you ever consider the reaction? Did the WSC ever ask themselves if this policy may be self-serving(or at least appear to be), and that it as an organisation, has a minority perspective. Successful managment must include selective harvest, or your not doing what you should as managers for everyone. No harvest means to me you are only concerned with your ability to play with fish. There are more than WSC members who fish. Alot more. And your solution not only DOESNT help them, state-wide WSR cuts them out of the picture entirely, while CnR guys would have their cake and eat it too. Did you think there would be no opposition? Do you think the opposition will stop when you silence CFM? THINK AGAIN!


To tell you the truth, if it doesnt pass public scrutiny, it shouldnt be public policy. If I were WSC, I might think about floating it by the masses before I jump in. Hammer it out here, and if it fly's here, it'l fly anywhere. If you did that, you may find more support for your cause as it will be created by, and supported by a broader group of interests. It's not like you dont have a FORUM for that... It's the whole "public involvement" thing again. I know it's hard right now, but this IS how you develope successful policies. You bring ALL the different entities together, and through discussion, and debate, you hash out a solution. That is what's happening here and now. This is the place to do it. It is the most respected BB on the web because of the involvement of people like CFM, Bob, Jerry, Dr. Todd, Salmo g, Smalma, Grandpa, and many many others. They have the smarts and experience to enlighten others. A BB is just a rant without experts. We have them here. Lets put them to good use, not keep them in a closet.

just one mans rant......Hairlip out.

The conspiracy crap can stop! Since you fellas want to bring it up ...

The PM has been deleted but it basically stated, subject of something like: The Belligerence can Stop Now

Stating that I was sick and tired of coming home and seeing who he was ARGUING with.

Nowhere in the PM did I ever say that he wasn't allowed a dissenting opinion. I made reference to the fact that despite how far Plunker and I are on a number of issues, that never once have I PM'd him and told him to stop saying things. A respectful voice was all that was going to be allowed and I think yesterday's post from CFM regarding my "ulterior motives for WSR" and business ethics is a perfect example of what I was referring to.

I've never once said that you have to think like me ... but if you "bash" others on the BB, you will be gone.

If you don't like my rules, make your own board

Oh, and for boater1's question: I think eddie pretty much sums it up with one thing I'd like to mention - it would be different if the dead fish came from early in the run, carried large fish genes, or was a repeat spawner. The harvested fish would stand a 0% chance of survival if it fell into one of these categories that are hurting / vital to run health, the released fish would have a 90-95% chance of survival.

How does the pro-harvest crowd feel about no harvest on wild fish until the hatchery run is done, say Feb. 1?

Bob,

As one who moderates several E-mail forums, as well as having had several very active boards of my own in the past, I APPLAUD your stand here about this site.

Good discussions and debates are a healthy thing for folks to learn from, but when it gets nasty and tempers flare there is a time for it to end.

Don't want or need my own BB site (or the headaches that can go with them)...this one here is the best I have seen.

Mike B

One more thing I would like to add:

I AM NOT A MEMBER OF WSC AND I SUPPORT WSR. I HAVE WRITTEN TO THE COMMISSION AND URGED ADOPTION OF WSR AND HAVE TESTIFIED BEFORE THE COMMISSION ON THIS MATTER.

There, that feels better.

So maybe there is 101 supporters.

well, from a fishes point of veiw, it dont matter to him if its bonked or caught and released 20 times its still dead

Sparkey you have made snide remarks all along, including posts under this thread and others... Including the one that led to me calling you arrogant.

CFM raises questions on this issue, he gets shut down. I have disagreed with CFM a ton, I just find it odd that he gets warned on this one and he wasn't really attacking anyone, he is just on the other side of the issue.

You want a new question... here it goes?

How do you feel about environmentalists aligning with WSC and WSR? It appears from these postings on a different board, that this one self proclaimed non-fishing environmentalist applauds the efforts and is looking forward to more closures...


"Thanks Rich:

Western Clallam and Jefferson Counties are not hotbeds of stewardship. There have been two pro-release letters to the editor (Peninsula Daily News in Port Angeles), both well written and both from out of town.

Some locals have petitions going to repeal the madatory release regulations, and our local state politicians (Buck and Hargrove)never take the side of salmon.

Most of the problem, I think, is lack of understanding. I see fishermen stomping through redds, yanking hooks out, throwing jacks back in the salmonberries so as to cleanse the gene pool of stunted fish.

I would go even further than the pro-release regs. I'd like to see no fishing on small streams with runs under 1,000 fish and no baited hooks anywhere because of the increased mortality. I think redds should also be protected."


I would agree with protection of the redds, but shut down smaller streams??? They also talked about closing chinook salmon, chum in the straits, a bait ban, and went on to say that a lot more closures are needed. I find it concerning when these type of people are in WSC's camp.

How do you feel about these issues? (if they haven't already been asked..)

(if you dont like the answer, too bad...) And that doesn't sound arrogant? By the way, you posted the quote I immediately edited out of the post because I thought it a little too harsh.. apparently you liked it enough to put it up here! IF you have read anything I posted, I have said OVER AND OVER... I am arguing about the process.... I catch and release everything but the occasional coho and halibut. The process has me worried. I think we have opened up a can of worms that we might not be able to contain.

But remember..... IF you really feel that strongly about wild steelhead Sparkey, stop fishing for them, Anything else is hypocracy.

Another poor attempt to discredit the organization with innuendos. This response is one person's opinion response from the WSC BB when I posted an article on the news of the moratorium. Elkrun, I expect an apology, you are welcome to agree to disagree with organization, but please don't attempt the ploys of putting words in someone's mouth or laying out the guilty by association sly to discredit the organization. Anyone is welcome to read the thread on the WSC BB.

I don't have time or energy to defend the organization to people who will never agree with the WSC mission. I am busy moving on to work on the “other” issues for wild steelhead. I hope you find away to get involved to help our ailing steelhead runs aside from yapping on a BB. For me it's enough said on the issue.

"But remember..... IF you really feel that strongly about wild steelhead Sparkey, stop fishing for them, Anything else is hypocracy."

I couldn't agree more. Also, I feel that guilt by association is a valid point. I haven't read the thread on your BB, but I will check it out. Double Haul, everyone can choose to be involved in one manner or another and to whatever extent they choose. You don't have to be a member of WSC or any other group to have the right to speak out about your discontent with whats going on or to care about the resource. Maybe if the statewide WSR ruling would have been part of a public rule change process more people would have been involved.

What the devil is it with you guys at WSC?

WSC position is really becoming ridiculous!

Now you're telling Elkrun that he needs to apologize to you! You said All Elkrun has done was post a factual statement to you that came off of your own website. Why in the world should Elkrun want to apologize to you for doing that? I just when over to your Website at WSC, and read the thread that Elkrun was referring to. If you didn't agree with what that member had written, why in the world wouldn't you have scolded him like you just have done to Elkrun? Instead, you wrote back just before that persons had siad what he did, and said
I think you’re the one who owes Elkrun an apology.
I sure didn't see you telling that person that he was wrong with what he just said, and I sure didn't see any "disagreement with his opinion" from you on what he said.

Elkrun finds new information that's posted on your own board, and posts it here, and now you want him to give you an apology? You guys at WSC most be get pretty darn desperate, when you can't even take what your own board members are posting. Elkrun never said that you posted that! So why make it sound like he's putting false words into your mouth?

I guess it's coming down to if you don't like someone's else's opinion now about what's WSC members or supporters post, its becoming another one of these alleged "personal attacks" against someone.

And I suppose that now that I have agreed with what Elkrun has said, that I too am now making a another "personal attack" against you also.
WSC responses are starting to look pretty pathetic! Now I suppose I will in trouble for voicing my opinion on this one too.

Jerry

Why are there hundreds and hundreds of post about WSC actions here, and only a couple of post about it on WSC own website?

Cowlitz- I thought you said you were done...

Bob asked "How does the pro-harvest crowd feel about no harvest on wild fish until the hatchery run is done, say Feb. 1?"

I don't know. I am pro choice. Not on any fish that is threatened though. (like Steelies) If I know a fish or animal is threatened I would never knowingly harass them.

BTW anyone who hooks a fish is "pro-harvest".

One way or another.

What I do know is this. I'll state it again.


The "true" wild steelhead crowd believes if a particular river has a "truly" threatened/endangered fish that the river should be shut down to all fishing during the said spawning period until the wild stock has rebounded to a state that can handle mortality. If they (the fish) are in that bad of shape, don't we owe it to the fish to leave them alone?

If WSC truly "believes" that they "love" this fish so much why don't they support shutting down the river if the stocks are "supposedly" so bad off. If they are, and I beleieve they are, then lets give the fish a break so they can rebound. Why doesn't that make sense? If the river can sustain/maintain a certain level of harvest/hook mortality then at that time lets manage the river accordingly

This post isn't targeting anyone but asking a fundemental question. If they are that bad off, why aren't we protecting them until they have rebounded, and then MANAGE them effectively? MANAGE=ensure all have a stake, bonkers, cnr, natives etc. These fish are hardy, if we give them half a chance, they will thrive. At that point lets manage the harvest for the future. It can be done guys/gals.....

Bob, I respect your opinion and would like to get your take on this.

Thanks

Did you register on the WSC forum Cow? This is where the questions were being asked. What is your point this time?

Jerry

If I give you my honest answer, will it be considered to be "argumentative"?

Cowlitzfisherman

You can email me .