...get about half the springers hooked by anglers this year, I think.

Every year these critters get more proficient and more aggressive. I think they hone their techniques and teach them to their friends and children.

I am very concerned that the situation will continue to deteriorate until there will not be any reason to bother fishing for these red-meated torpedoes anymore.

Where are those seal killing Orcas when you need them? I saw this happen several times this year too.
The only reason we got a fish in once was because Hershal II was too busy killing a fish by flopping it all over the place. Geeze....maybe it's time for the slingshot..

In the group of boats i fished with last week two guys had "wrist rockets." Even though they didnt hit the them the sea lions knew the drill. They stayed out of the boats for the most part. They didnt get any of the fish hooked that day.
I am just curious what kind of fine goes along with shooting marbles at those things? Even if you dont hit them.

Everyone be sure and save all the skanky chums you catch next fall and freeze them whole. I'm working on a new product called Sea-Lion-B-Gone.

It's a special reel loaded with 80# braided line with a 2-conductor wire weaved-in. Inside the old chum goes an explosive charge & ignition cap. On the reel, there are 2 buttons: one is the bail release, the other is marked "det". The reel has self contained batteries.

Here's how it works: you "troll" the specially prepared chum salmon through sea lion rich waters.

When he takes the bait, it's:

wait.....
wait...
wait..
DETONATE!


Look Daddy! That sea lion doesn't have a head....

Great idea Slabquest. When you get it done I'll be the first in line to use one.

A few years back, some guys got a fine of $7,000, that is seven thousand and no/100 dollars, for throwing rocks at sealions up near Bonneville.

I've hard that m-80's will make them go away pretty quickly. Apparently, if you seal the fuse and fuse hole with elmers glue, and tape a bit of pencil lead on, it makes them want to leave.

There used to be a product on the market called I think called a "seal bomb". Essentailly the same thing that Silver Hilton just described. Not sure what the legallity of those things...pretty sure if caught you'd be feeding the state and federal coffers money that could be spent on some more k-15's (to replace the ones Hershel steals).

I believe the commercial netters are allowed to (and do) use seal bombs on a regular basis.

Someone even told me that they can legally shoot these critters if they are getting in their nets, but I kinda wonder about that.

Like I have told Slab, my uncle used to shoot seals with his old 97 Winchester 12 gauge pump and then he would harpoon them and cut off the snout. The State of Washington Dept. Fisheries paid a bounty on seals then...in the 50's. It is true and some day I will find the documentation to prove it. WDFW denies it today but I was a little kid on the boat when he did that and even though I was little I remember. Right now sea lions eat more salmon on the Columbia than sports catch and I bet if we could count we would find that they eat more than the commercial catch too.

I belive that there might bee more seal than nature intended (at least around here). Think about it, with fewer and fewer orcas (our seals only natural predator) and us not being able to kill them, the seal have no population controll. Thus, less orcas = more seals = less salmon, steelhead, herring, smelt, and fish in general.

WDFW regulates the catch rate of sports and commercial. It is about time that the tribes and the seals are regulated too as those two groups are the major harvesters of our salmon and steelhead.

There is an over-population of seals- sea lions, but they are protected. So, even harassing them is illegal. But, I like them. Just got in a debate over would I like them so much when they steal my 30 pound springer, hmmmnn. We let them , so why wouldn't they eat an easy catch? Their animals, hungry, fish, so they eat. Don't hate them for doing what seems natural to them. We have let them become used to us, it is just like the cougars who we have taken their land. They are wild and will hunt whatever they can. If you want to hunt and fish, expect them to also. Fair is fair. And ok, I still think they're cute! But, bashing allowed, it is man who has allowed this , blame him, not the animals who just go along with the times.

Grandpa 2-
My Great Uncle used to talk about doing the same thing in Northern Puget Sound...with the seal snouts. Harppons and barrels, kinda like Jaws!

How sweet and cuddly :rolleyes: . Wait until one of those 1500lb *******s tries to swim in to your boat after a salmon. As for cougars, atleast we can manage their population. People who get all misty about seals are generally people what haven't had run ins with them. As for me, if one tries to board the boat I am in after one of my fish.. Its head is going to get canoed by a 240 grain slug . I'll pay the court fees, its cheaper than drowning. If it gets to it before the boat I 'll let it take it, but this year they have gotten more brazen, trying to pull fish out of peoples landing nets. Also they follow commercial boats eating both fish out of the nets and wild fish that the netters release.
You are entitled to your opinion, but know that unedcuated bunny huggers cause more problems than good. (look at the hound rule and the current rise in cougar/people negative interactions )

Across the board we have allowed a small minority of people with radical ideas shape our society. Feel good groups have turned species like the seals and sea lions gain an imbalance in nature by artificially "protecting" them . At the Ballard locks Herschel was finally given a death warrant by the govt...It was finally legal to kill the big fish killing machine and yet we wouldn't do it for fear of criticism by the radical animal rights nuts. So we put brands on their backs and name them and let them overpopulate to the detriment of ESA listed fish runs. What a joke. I'm not sure what the answer is but we should explore an answer to a severe problem.

The Makah tribe in Neah Bay has done a good job of trimming the herd of sea lions up there. Nice and quiet but they have taken control. Especially when the Makahs were given the right to harvest sea urchins...The biggest predator of the sea urchin besides commercial fishermen is the sea otter. Those cute little fuzzy things will not stand in the way of the Makahs harvesting sea urchins...and the sea lions will not threaten their nets....bang bang your dead.

Jesus , Mary and Joseph!! Just got back from Cath. For those of you there today, what a show with that monster sea lion stealing that guy's fish, then the frantic chase all over the main river in his 14ft gregor. ...The kid was brave and determined but Hershal II got his fish ( and hopefully a mouthful of quick fish)

Those seals are aggressive and dangerous. One scared the crap out of me today when we were anchored and putting out the sea anchor...Sucker breached right in front of me...

Whether you like them or not, seals have a major impacty on the fishery and should be thinned out.........

How did you guys do?

skeets

I was down at Cathlamet last weekend and I saw a sealion snatch a springer out of a fishermans hands in the marina, when he was cleaning it. The fisherman was like "what the hell was that?" then got all pist off and wanted to dive in after it, I had to admit it was Kinda funny watching that.

Skeets, didn't do well today. Only saw a handful of fish caught and had one shaker on.

Skeets, we were in the 19ft Stryker with the green top, were you the guys in a Stryker that we talked to trolling? man , we usually hit fish too, but today, we got skunked.

Goinfishin- We have a 20' Intruder green boat with green top.. Havn't been down for 2 weeks but maybe then we talked to you? I think we did...
Friday is a half-day so were gonna take another whack at em! See you all down there!

Skeets

You are entitled to your opinion, but know that unedcuated bunny huggers cause more problems than good. (look at the hound rule and the current rise in cougar/people negative interactions )

Uneducated is people who $itch on forums instead of going to their government! Try to blame an animal all you want, but it is us who allowed this. Try addressing the problem instead of just complaining and a solution may be found. Go ahead and try to blame the animal for overpopulating, yeah, real bright!!! As far as the aggressiveness goes, there should be something done as it is now a threat, a threat that deserves legal action, not just a forums attention.

Angg,
No one blames the animal for over populating. We humans do it too and always will as long as sex is so popular. What I blame is the WDFW and the Nat. Marine Fish. Act, which really ties the state's hands when it comes to marine predator control. We have inflated these seal populations artificially with our hatchery fish.

We all can't use the resource so we need to limit commercial fishing further, and reduce seal populations. I don't agree with you about *****ing on web sites, that's how ideas are exchanged and are a good barometer of how groups of people feel about an issue.

Well, this is indeed what I was waiting for! Someone who may realize that the problem may be not just the seals-sea lions. The first step is to find out why they are so over-populated and why they hunt an easy fish, don't migrate, become aggressive. I don't want my family, or anyone elses attacked by them, but there is an apparent problem. I am all for finding a solution, be it hunting or scaring them away.

As far as the %%%%%ng on a forum, I just meant that action takes place when you step up, not just complain. I only say that as I complained about Clinton so much that my mom said " do something, quit complaining". I guess I thought my one voice didn't matter, it actually does and although I will always be a bunny hugger, I still want us all to be safe and legal.

The man friend still hates the seals and that's ok. We can still have different opinions and end up with a solution that works for all.

A few clarifications:

Sea lions are not "over populated". In fact, they are still less than the historical average. The problem is there are alot fewer salmon as well, particularly spring Chinook.

The bounty on sea lions back in the 40's and 50's likely contributed to their rapid demise, which prompted the need for the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Which is why sea lions have the legal protection they currently enjoy. In other words, past management actions have prevented us from taking reasonable measures now.

There are alot more people chasing fewer fish. Thus sea lion/angler encounters are increasing.

Sea lions are quick learners with good eye sight They know an easy meal when they see it. And they see alot.

The prescence of dams have allowed sea lions to more easily prey on salmon. Without Bonneville Dam, the salmon would move quickly upstream of the Cascades and out of the reach of the sea lions. Sea lions know they can find an easy meal at Bonneville so they are inhabiting the entire lower Columbia River more than they ever did.

Lastly, we need one of those transiet pods of Orca in the Columbia River. A little "balance-of-nature" wouldn't hurt. One of those guys could bite a big male sea lion in half......

Hope this answers your question, shoemaker.

In short, the max you could get is:

"The 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act protects seals, sea lions, whales and porpoises. It provides for maximum civil penalties of $11,000, and maximum criminal penalties of a $100,000 fine and a year in jail."

In one case:

"In September 2003, an Olympia man was fined $7,000 for killing a California sea lion on the Lewis River last spring. That fine was one of the largest ever imposed in the Northwest under the federal Marine Mammal Protection Act."

Heres another case:

"On December 11, 2003, North and Watson each pled guilty to a single count of violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act for having shot at and for having killed a sea lion, which is a class A misdemeanor. Both were sentenced on February 27, 2004.

According to the plea agreement, defendants Richard V. North and Rodney D. Watson violated the Marine Mammal Protection Act in March 2002 when they shot at sea lions that were feeding in the area. During two days in March, North and Watson were sport fishing for salmon on the Columbia River along the Washington State riverbank. North and Watson took turns firing a.22 caliber rifle at sea lions that were foraging for fish nearby in the river. North succeeded in shooting one of the sea lions in the head, causing the sea lion to thrash about and bleed profusely from the head area. The sea lion dove and surfaced several times in this condition, and then disappeared. The shooting was witnessed by several other boats in the area.

The court sentenced Richard North, who struck the sea lion, to 15 days of home detention with electronic monitoring, 100 hours of community service, a $1000 fine, and two years of supervised probation. Rodney Watson, who shot at but did not strike a sea lion, was sentenced to 75 hours of community service, a $1500 fine, and two year of supervised probation. The court also prohibited both men from fishing while accompanied by a firearm during the period of probation."

Just do a google search for Marine Mammal Protection Act Fines.

Those whackey, gun-tottin', seal shootin', morons make for some fun reads!

Pretty much, you get caught harassing a sea lion, you're gonna lose a good chunk of money, and depending on the judge, may or may not get to spend some quality time with your cell mate, Bubba, in prison.

Ya know, it only costs about $4 to replace that KwickFish, and you can always just fish again tomorrow...

Oh, and in case you are wondering, fisherman are so screwed when it comes to beefs over sea lions. This article pretty much sums up my statement that fisherman are hosed.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0BQK/1_9/112350816/p1/article.jhtml

Fished two days at Cathlamet, Thurs-Fri and saw no sea lions.

cohoangler,

I realize that the sea lions may not be in the abundance they were before the salmon population was greatly reduced. Since you made the statement about the current population of the sea lions as not being "over polulated" what are you basing that on?

If the fishery can't sustain the mulitple pressures placed on it, why would it be wrong to reduce their numbers. The tone of your post seemed to be one of trying to straighten us red-neck reactionary fishermen out.

Personally, the seal lions can go. I spoke with Joe Hymer today from region five and he told me that the reason they have increased is the obvious, the runs have been good and the lions enjoy great success for the reasons that you also mention.

By the way, he did not rule out closing the lower columbia if the forecast was off. FYI, the commercial have taken 80 percent of their allotment based on the large run forecast.

Besides *****ing on forums, i also go to goverment hearings, have tried to bring awareness to the bear and cougar bill that are in the oregon senate every year, and hope to be able to go the nmfs meeting to give out my say. people who don't fish the big water generally have little interaction with seals and instead just think "seaworld and disney"

And by the way, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.
Their going to overpopulate for their new habitat constraints. I personally feel that humans, being the superior entity, have the right to control and manipulate our enviroment as we see fit. (based on whats good for the majority of users)

posted 03-31-2004 04:46 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Angg:
There is an over-population of seals- sea lions, but they are protected. So, even harassing them is illegal. But, I like them. Just got in a debate over would I like them so much when they steal my 30 pound springer, hmmmnn. We let them , so why wouldn't they eat an easy catch? Their animals, hungry, fish, so they eat. Don't hate them for doing what seems natural to them. We have let them become used to us, it is just like the cougars who we have taken their land. They are wild and will hunt whatever they can. If you want to hunt and fish, expect them to also. Fair is fair. And ok, I still think they're cute! But, bashing allowed, it is man who has allowed this , blame him, not the animals who just go along with the times.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How sweet and cuddly . Wait until one of those 1500lb *******s tries to swim in to your boat after a salmon. As for cougars, atleast we can manage their population. People who get all misty about seals are generally people what haven't had run ins with them. As for me, if one tries to board the boat I am in after one of my fish.. Its head is going to get canoed by a 240 grain slug . I'll pay the court fees, its cheaper than drowning. If it gets to it before the boat I 'll let it take it, but this year they have gotten more brazen, trying to pull fish out of peoples landing nets. Also they follow commercial boats eating both fish out of the nets and wild fish that the netters release.
You are entitled to your opinion, but know that unedcuated bunny huggers cause more problems than good. (look at the hound rule and the current rise in cougar/people negative interactions )


Ok, I did indeed see the sea lions naughtiness! We had caught 2 fish and the next one would be Mikes. He joked that probably the damn sea lion would come for it. We laughed, but then the rod jumped. As he was reeling, one man ( oh , jOHN the fishing GOD)joked about the sea lion.sure as poop, that sea lion , so far away , saw us and stared coming at us. I was yelling reel faster, John had the net and Chris was watching the sea lion close in and yelling encouragement. Mike horsed it in and they almost got it but it then ran under the boat around the motor. I got a quick glance and he was huge! they tried to net it and the C-29 sea lion (sure someone knows him) chomped down on the huge fish and hit the motor big time. then came up to show us his catch and splashed all around the boat. Big fish, bigger than my 20 pounder! then, he followed us for the rest of the day. so, I do know now about the sea lions. they are very crafty! I also have read up and know they don't migrate, thank you to whoever said I was an un-educated bunny hugger. I have educated myself, they are still under -populated. And my keyboard is whacked , so I know the caps are off.
surely, their must be a sonar way to scare them away, I'd bring the dog, but even she may be afraid of those big teeth!

When we went for the 2 days out of the 13 fish we hooked none were got by sealions, but we were lucky we saw many sealions and many fish get stolen, i like the whole population controll idea!!

Maybe there is another way to piss them off. Instead of using this: perhaps you could piss them off so that they will need this: By no means a foolproof method and it is only recommended for people who take care of their business unabashedly.

Don't think Angg can come close to the real "unedcuated bunny huggers": Saw a lady take a baby seal home in a blanket last summer while fishing the beaches of Whidbey.


Even the Korean guys were looking at her like she was crazy! and they take home some wierd stuff.

Its comman practice for tribal members in La Push to shoot seals and sea lions on the Quileute reservation. Keeps the Eagles happy.