I don't even own a flyrod!

You are funny Bruce

There was a report published by the Quinalt tribe that concluded that there were too many steelhead in the OP rivers. It stated that if we didnt harvest fish, then there would be too many fish competing for spawning gravel and that none of the fish would be able to spawn. In the SAME article, they also said back in the day (50's and 60's), that 60,000+ steelies a year were harvested in the OP rivers.
How can those two statements come from the same article? Doesnt that contradict itself?
Where are those fish now?

My opinion on the matter is that we need to manage the rivers for maximum returns of fish, not maximum harvest of fish.

"My opinion on the matter is that we need to manage the rivers for maximum returns of fish, not maximum harvest of fish."

Please take a minute to think about what that means.

Thanks for the replay.
I couldn't have said it better.

I tend to consider anyone who seeks gratification at the expense of others to be scumbags. Hence the name calling in a moment of anger. I have felt bad about publicly using this word to describe the members of the WSC for some time so, even if they fit the bill, I hereby apologize for the public outburst.

The WSC was formed primarily to protect steelhead from the fishermen who they wrongly blamed for the sudden declines in the Puget Sound rivers due to what science indicates to have been adverse ocean conditions. Over-fishing was a part of the equation only in the minds of those anti-harvest individuals who seek to impose their feel-good ethic upon the world. This is a mean-spirited and greedy attempt to exclude the majority of steelhead anglers from participation.

Although it was the Commission that acted illegally it has been the WSC who has taken the torch as campaign leaders for this restriction and their guidance towards the anti-harvest mentality from the fly fishing community. The Federation of Fly Fishers and the fly fisher dominated Trout Unlimited have long been the primary promoters of the anti-harvest agenda and the unsavory stereotyping of those that would catch fish to eat.

It is hard to disagree that Russ Cahill was right on the mark in his observation that, "The issue has been fermenting for years, I would call it a culture war between the catch and release fly fishermen, and people who want to take home a fish."

Well, Plunk, maybe I spoke too soon in the above quote.

I guess you're just as welcome to your opinion as the next guy...but it sure would be nice if you had any connection to reality when you give it up. I know it's not as fun to have a real discussion that uses things like facts, or even logic...you really seem to like to just continually say things with no factual basis.

Mean-spirited? Yeah, I'm out to getcha... :rolleyes:

Flyfisherman dominated TU? Maybe on the East Coast, but around here? Come on Plunk, that one stretces even the farthest bounds of believability.

Come on...bring something other than your hate to the table...and do not speak for me or anyone else at the WSC anymore.



Fish on...

Todd

Whatever Todd,

your credibility has declined to negativity.


Fly_Guy,

I'm pretty sure you got your information second hand.

What I read is that if there are too many fish competing for the gravel then the overall spawning would be less effective. A fish spawning on top of a previous nest tends to cancel the original effort and the disturbance can subject the exposed eggs to disease that might spread to the secondary overlapping nest. Disease can be a big problem with spawning and many speculate that the reason salmonids spawn in a group of separate nests, called redds, is to avoid losing an entire years effort to disease if it consumes one of the nests.

Obviously, the best way to maximize harvest over the long haul is to maximize returns.
The best way to maximize spawning numbers is to prohibit fishing altogether.

This is public information from the WDFW web site. I found it interesting to see who our commission members are. Maybe you will too.

Commission Staff:
Susan Yeager, Executive Assistant (360) 902-2267
Nancy Burkhart, Office Assistant (360) 902-2449

Will Roehl, Chair

Will Roehl was first appointed to the Commission in July 1997 and was reappointed to a six-year term in January 2003. Roehl served as vice chair from January 2001 until he was elected chair in January 2003. He is an attorney with a commercial practice in Bellingham. He and a brother own a customs brokerage business that facilitates importation/ exportation of chemical, petroleum, fish and forest products. He is co-owner of a business based in Eugene, Oregon. He attended Whitman College (B.A. Economics) and the University of Puget Sound School of Law. He held elective office in Whatcom County, including service on a 1978 Board of Freeholders and 11 years as a member of the Whatcom Co. Council. He has served on boards of numerous non-profit organizations and devoted time to various civic efforts. He is committed to restoring Washington's salmon runs while avoiding conflicts between commercial and recreational fishers. Roehl and his wife Kelli Linville live in Bellingham. (Roehl's current term expires in December 2008.)

Ron Ozment, Vice-Chair

Ron Ozment was appointed to the Commission in September 2001 to serve a six-year term and was elected vice chair in January 2003. He is a dairy producer and cattle breeder who owns and operates the 200-acre Riviera Jersey Farm north of Cathlamet. Ozment served as Wahkiakum County Commissioner from 1989 through 2000 and, while holding that office, was the County's representative on the Lower Columbia Fish Recovery Board, the Water Resource Inventory Areas 25/26 Board, the Southwest Clean Air Agency, and the Cowlitz/ Wahkiakum Council of Governments. He also is a former member and chair of the Wahkiakum County Planning Commission and a former member of the U.S. Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Committee and the U.S. Farm Home Administration's (now the Rural Development Administration) Agricultural and Housing Loan Eligibility Committee serving Wahkiakum, Cowlitz, Clark, and Skamania counties. Ozment and his wife Anne live in Cathlamet. They have three children and six grandchildren. (Ozment's current term expires in December 2006.)

Members

Russ Cahill

Russ Cahill was appointed to the Commission in April 1998 to fill a five-year vacancy and in December 1999 he was reassigned to fill a one-year vacancy. He was reappointed to a six-year term in September 2001. He served as vice chairman from January 1999 until he was elected chair in January 2001 for a two year term. He retired in 1997 after 40 years of work, mostly in the fields of natural resources, parks, and law enforcement. He has been a trustee and board chairman of the Washington Nature Conservancy and a trustee of the National Parks and Conservation Association. He has served on the boards of several Washington State and local conservation organizations. An avid fisherman, hiker, and bird watcher, he has walked, cross-country skied, and paddled over most of the state. Cahill and his wife Narda Pierce live in Olympia. He has three children and four grandchildren. (Cahill's current term expires in December 2006.)

John A. Hunter IV

John was appointed to the Commission in July 2003 to serve a six-year term. John brings both private industry and public service experience to the Commission. In the private sector, John’s BA in Economics and Business led to a thirty plus year career in sales/marketing and distribution management focused on the post harvest needs of the tree fruit industry in the Pacific Northwest. During his past fifteen years public service involvement, John has served as Councilman and Mayor of the City of Cashmere, and as Chelan County Commissioner. John has served as a volunteer and on the board of directors of numerous private and public entities involved with improving our social, economic, and environmental living conditions in Washington. John is committed to a balanced approach in the maintenance and enhancement of our natural resources for the enjoyment and appreciation of all Washingtonians. John and his wife, Renee, have an empty nest as their two children and two foster daughters now make their homes in various locations within Washington State. (Hunter’s current term expires in December 2008.)

Lisa Pelly

Lisa Pelly was appointed to the Commission in January 1994 to serve a five-year term. She served as vice chair from January 1996 to January 1997. She served as chair from January 1997 to January 1999, the first woman to serve in that position. She was reappointed to a six-year term in February 1999. A lifelong resident of Washington, she has a deep and passionate commitment to the state and the protection of its natural resources. She serves on the board of directors for Washington Conservation Voters, Farming and the Environment and the Washington Wildlife and Recreation Coalition and is the founder and past president of the Northwest Women Flyfishers. She enjoys spending time outdoors, hiking and fishing. Pelly lives on Bainbridge Island. (Pelly's current term expires in December 2004).

Fred Shiosaki

Fred Shiosaki was appointed to the Commission in February 1999 to serve a six-year term. He was a member of the all Japanese-American 442nd Infantry Regiment. He graduated from Gonzaga University in Chemistry and attended the University of Washington Graduate School. After working as the Spokane City Chemist, he set up the Spokane County Air Pollution Control Authority and served as its Director and Control Officer for 11 years. In 1978, he was hired to manage the Environmental Affairs
Department for the Washington Water Power Company and retired from there in 1989. For more than eight years he was a member of the Washington Ecological Commission and served as its chair for seven years. His professional applications have been the Air Pollution Control Association and the Northwest Electric Light and Power Association. He is a member of the Exchange Club of Downtown Spokane, Trout Unlimited, Disabled American Veterans, and the Inland Empire Fly Fishing Club. He has been a flyfisher for more than 30 years and is involved in his clubs' educational and conservation programs. In the recent past, he trained springer spaniels and hunted birds. Shiosaki and his wife Lily live in Spokane. They have a son, Michael and daughter, Nancy. (Shiosaki's current term expires in December 2004.)

Bob Tuck

Bob Tuck was appointed to the Commission in April 1998 to fill a two-year vacancy and reappointed to a six-year term in September 2001. He is a private consultant, providing technical and program assistance on a variety of fisheries, habitat, and water activities and projects in Washington and Oregon. He also provides technical coordination and assistance for an environmental education program involving numerous school districts in Central Washington. Tuck and his wife Lynn live in Selah. (Tuck's current term expires in December 2006.)

R.P. "Van" Van Gytenbeek

Van Van Gytenbeek was appointed to the Commission in February 1999 to serve a six- year term. He is the publisher of Fly Fishing in Salt Waters magazine in Seattle. He has more than 30 years of management experience in the private sector, is a retired artillery captain, and has authored two books on trout and streamside conservation. He is the former executive director of Trout Unlimited and has held various board or board memberships in a number of recreational organizations, including the International Fly Fishers Federation, American Museum of Fly Fishing, the American League of Anglers, and the Trout and Salmon Foundation. Van Gytenbeek and his wife Elizabeth live in Seattle. They have three children and one grandchild. (Van Gytenbeek's current term expires in December 2004.)

Plunker
Do you think if there wasn’t a problem WSC and FFF and TU would ask for 2 years moratorium.
You think its all Ocean problem?
What about Habitat in the Rivers itself!
There are 5-H’s

Do you think if there wasn’t a problem WSC and FFF and TU would ask for 2 years moratorium.

Yes..

You think its all Ocean problem?

No..

What about Habitat in the Rivers itself!
There are 5-H’s.

Keep up the good work in this area Homer.

Homer - YES
They, FFF and TU have been asking for they release of just about all wild fish for over 30 years.

Dave - I haven't had time to read your volumnous post. I might get back to you on it this evening or tomorrow. Then again... I might not.


Didn't your mother warn you about trying to think?
Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and keep people wondering.

Ummm… I wonder what they might wonder about?

That is about enough on this topic for me for now so have at it.

:rolleyes:

If steelhead are so plentiful on the rivers on OP
Why are they not all making escapement goals?

Remember Bruce & Plunker you can get the numbers yourself from the Bob’s.

Repeat after me:

NETS

NETS

NETS

NETS

I think that these are a few things we can all agree with...

Sportfishermen are not all that great at filling in their punchcards.

Poaching is a problem on the OP.

Sportfishermen catch and harvest more fish than are reported.

Tribal fishermen catch a lot of fish, too.

Their reporting isn't all that good, either.

The reported catch of wild steelhead on the OP is higher for sportsmen than it is for the tribes.

Now we can have a pretend argument all the day long about how we aren't as bad as them...and if they were here, they'd say that they aren't as bad as us.

It doesn't really matter...the fact is, several thousand steelhead per year are reported as being harvested by sportsfishermen each year on the OP rivers.

There is no way that NETS NETS NETS is the only answer as to why OP steelhead runs are declining, so long as we "sportsmen" are harvesting just as many.

I know...I know...the nets are bad, and they are underreporting our catch. I also know that we're bad...we've all seen jerks running fish back to their trucks and keeping over their limits in the harvest seasons...not to mention catching and keeping them in areas/times where it's not open.

Either way, it adds up...and sport harvest is part of the problem.

If folks want to blame just habitat, or ocean conditions, or whatever, then that's fine. As soon as any harvest becomes part of the problem, then we are part of the problem.

Fish on...

Todd

Amen, Todd although you do seem to have clouded the issue with facts.

Anyone who wants to harvest wild steelhead in the state of washington is wrong and by deffinition does not care about the future of wild runs. No matter what other conservation issues they may be involved with.. The purpose of saving wild steelhead is NOT so that they can some day be harvested. it's so that they will exsist for as long as possible..
harvesting them is an act of stupidity.

Todd

I hate to say this, but I think your right!

IMO, CnR mortality is more realistic at 10% or more, not 3.5%. With all the grand ideals about this glorious fish you seek to keep from others, CnR still adds to harvest. How any fishermen, CnR or not, can say he's not part of the harvest is dishonest at best. So how does anyone not see this as hypocritical? It's beyond me. Take all the CnR fishermen in the state, total the fish caught and the mortality. Your only saying your numbers are more acceptable than sport harvesters. We say our numbers are acceptable, where's the difference?

Crap, or get off the pot!

>>Your only saying your numbers are more acceptable than sport harvesters. We say our numbers are acceptable, where's the difference?>>

Difference is amount of sport fishing opportunity.

,


It's still hypocritical. It's lost opportunity for the majority, and more opportunity for the hypopcrits.