I'm just back from a conference of outdoor writers. At one seminar I attended, I learned that the Bush admin has. made energy exploration in Rocky Mountain states a high priority. So much so that they are pushing hard to open Idaho's roadless areas for coal, gas and oil development. The BLM has been given marching orders to expedite the process and that any efforts to mitigate loss of fish and wildlife habitat must be justified and shown to not harm the push for new extraction industries. The biggest of many problems this will cause is massive water pollution from new techniques to release gas from coal beds. The BLM estimates that as much as 2 trillion gallons of polluted water will be dumped into pristine rivers in areas where west slope cutthroat and Chinook salmon are endangered. Of course, the current plans to count hatchery fish just like wild fish, will help this destruction of our wilderness. (Who needs wild fish when we have hatcheries)?

Trout Unlimited is fighting this hard, but right now only one district judge stands in the way of even more senseless destruction of some of the West’s most vital fish and game habitat.

The Idaho roadless area also produces the vast majority of the state’s trophy mule deer, elk and antelope. The largest antelope migration still occurring in the U.S. passes right through the area planned for development.

This stuff just makes me sick. The actions of the Bush administration seem to exhibit an overt hatred for our natural environment.
I realize that our clean water act, clean air act and endangered species act were signed by President Nixon, so where (and why) did the party go so wrong?

More Doom and Gloom Dave?

What a negative outlook you have. No wonder you spend so much time campaigning for eco-extremism.

For most of us the world is not at the brink of armeggon and we humans are not an unnatural earthly infectious disease organism. We are the highest life form the earth has ever evolved and with the cooperative application of our collective intelligence we will likely continue to move forward in bettering the most secure and comfortable existance ever experienced by an earthly being.

Since you bring presidential politics to this board I suppose it is only fair to present the more positive side of the presidential campaign issue.




In November, gun owners and sportsmen have a clear choice in the race for President. It will be the most important vote that gun owners have cast in decades. That choice is between a person who has been a true friend to gun owners and a candidate who has never missed a chance to vote against our right to bear arms.

In 2000, President Bush promised not to push for new gun control laws and he has kept that promise. He also said during the 2000 campaign that he opposes registration of firearms and gun owners, opposes mandatory trigger locks, and opposes waiting periods for the purchase of handguns (The Economist, "Issues 2000" special, Sep 30, 2000).

During his campaign for President, Bush defended his support for legislation in Texas that allows a person to carry a concealed weapon. "We live in a dangerous society," Bush said. "People feel like they need to defend themselves." (Washington Post Apr 25, 1999)

As President, he appointed John Ashcroft Attorney General, who in turn stated the official position of the Administraition is that the Second Amendment is an individual right to keep and bear arms - a marked improvement from the Clinton years. Then, in early March 2004 as the Senate was considering S. 1805 (The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act), President Bush urged Senators to pass a "clean bill," and asked the Senate to vote against "poison pill" amendments (including one to end gun shows as we know them and the other reenacting the Clinton Gun Ban) to S.659/S.1805.

The other candidate, Senator John Kerry, says he is a hunter and gun owner and would do nothing to take a way the rights of hunters. His voting record in the US Senate tells a different story. Kerry has a 100% voting record in support of Handgun Control, INC (now known as the Brady Campaign) and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. He even left the campaign trial on March 2, 2004 just so he could vote to end gun shows as we know them and reenact the Clinton Gun Ban. Later that day he voted for the Kennedy ammunition ban amendment. If the amendment had passed, it would have banned many hunting rounds. Even worse, Senator Kerry received a 100% rating from the Humane Society of the United States - one of the most anti-hunting groups in the nation. (The Humane Scorecard, February, 2004)

click here for more...

Ok, I'll bite (fish on!),

Bush is great on gun rights. His environmental record? From increased logging quotas on public land to more water for agriculture and power at the expense of fish runs to lumping wild fish and hatchery animals as one big school to allowing polluting industries to skip expensive upgrades of their spewing systems...and lastly, oh yeah...let's get those job bases overseas where they'll do the most good for that country's environment.

What's not to like?

NRA drivel.
Give Bush 20 years and there won't be anything to hunt unless you are a large land owner.
One of the countless reforms we need is a good return on the use of "our" land. Right now it is raped for a return of mere pennies to the tax payer and then the Companies file bankruptcy, start up again under a new name and leave the tax payer to clean up the mess.

G.W is ..... wait, I promiced myself I would'nt do it.. so I won't. He is doing a good enough job of trashing himself.

It's sad that anybody could take this view in light of the mountain of scientific data that confirms global warming and the geometric increase in the extinction of species caused by "man". This data has been produced by numerous scientists from around the globe, although it continues to be ignored by so many, including the Bush Administration and those folks with Plunker's mindset.

Never before in the history of the earth has one species caused the extinction of so many other species. There are so many examples of species that were once prolific that are now completely extinct from our planet, and still there are comments made like the one above. Are people really as blind as this comment makes them out to be?

When scientists and biologists produce reports that our oceans health and their fish are in rapid decline, when we witness our air and water quality spiral downward, when we as sport fishers witness declines in our andramous fish populations, when we witness the devastation caused by over harvest and exploitation, can their be any doubt that we're heading in the wrong way?

It is undeniably the greed, the arrogance, and the ignorance of the GOP that will continue this cycle of exploitation. Capitalism is not the same as democracy!

One must surely be ignorant of the world around them, or passified in the belief that this world is better and healthier today than it was before we exploited it. This is the belief that the Bush administration wants to convey to those who do not have the capacity to reason. It is this same limitation that will prevent those same people from voting Bush out of office in 2004.

If GW Bush was a fisherman, and Plunker was a fish, I'd say Plunker swallowed Bush's bait hook line and sinker...will that be one lump or two?


"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realise that you cannot eat money." Cree Indian Proverb

Plunker ,you put the red in redneck.
I guess you would say "get rid o them dang fishes ,there polluting my drinking water ,having sex and all.
After all the conservation strides made in your country,it's a shame the Bush mafia wants to take things back 30 years.
I wish i could say things were better up here in Canada,but with the fish farming disaster we have happening it's the same sh$t different country.
I loved that saying about you can't eat money ,gonna have to borrow that one.

Now a canadian is going to tell us how it is

**** the queen!

Both are bad so what do ya do.

The president dosent really have that much power anyways and the dem's are jsut as bad as the rep's. So what do ya do?

You lose all your rights and become a socialist country. Or so keep all your rights and lose the envirmont?

Trying to win some customers TM

Plunker, as a comparison, you might try breathing the air in Mexico City. They waited 'til '93 to require new cars to have cataletic converters and now they have serious problems. The point is if you wait too long to take action, its too late....

Mexico City Smog

My Thoughts on gun control are, Well How about 2" at 100 yards would be pretty good gun control. As far as I am concerned they need to to enforce the laws they have now NOT take the rights away from law abiding citizens like you and me.
As far as The Enviroment I don't like what I am hearing about our president. as far as kerry I don't like him at all.
Here is an example of what kerry is against.
This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq:

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion

Politics Yes Right or wrong Who knows ?
Ramprat
Thats all I have to say about that (FORREST GUMP)

Timberman ,who's the Queen?

Rich, you summed up my feelings perfectly. I'm not a big fan or either option.

Ramprat, that list the GOP has been pushing around the Internet for weeks left off some numbers: 730 dead Americans.

You people should really understand environmental laws and the process before you cry foul. The checks and balances are there and working. If something does slide by it gets caught and the perp gets harassed and sued to death. Nothing happens that is not nessecary to maintain the lifestyle of fat lazy spoiled Americans. Secondly you should be willing to live just as you expect others to live. You should look at the impacts on the environment your lifestyle causes before you cast the stone. Just because you have economically transferred evironmental destruction and you do not drive past it every day does not mean it's not real. The power you are using to read this post has killed fish. but that is justifed because you want it that way. Then you walk out the door and point to 10 other guys that are ruining your fishing. Do you not see the hypocrisy or have you been that blinded by misinformation and denial?

If the checks and balances are working so well, why are so many salmon and steelhead runs extinct? The issue here is this administration trying to roll back checks and balances developed by concerned politicians from Nixon to Bush Sr.

This is NOT about electric power. It is about unnecessary exploitation of our last wilderness areas in an effort to develop relativly minor amounts of gas and oil.

Yes most of us live a lifestyle that could be better suited to protecting our environment, but that does not mean we should abandon all regard for the environment. Life is NOT an all or nothing concern. We can drive a car and still support better mileage standards. We can use electricity and still switch to more efficient light bulbs, support wind and solar, etc. All humans are hypocrites, but we can still try to make a diffrence..

If you want to try to understand the issue, you can read more here: http://www.ourforests.org/localreports/

Dave,

So the energy companies are doing this because they have no demand? They are logging because there is no demand. You have yours and no one else can have the same? Do you have kids? Are they not going to use resources ? You just bought a new pickup and camper that probably gets under 20 MPG and you have the nerve to say anything about evironmental protection relating to energy production. How about all the ecosystem effected by the production of the materials to build that set up? A true environmentalist would take the train or go greyhound before he would shell out $40k to trach the environement. No lets look at your home and community. How many wetlands and ecosystems where whacked for your life style.
I hate to see roads punched and mines opened as much as the next guy but I look in the mirror to see the cause. Our politicians only do what we direct them to to with our dollar vote. The Dodge Ram and Camper are screaming at president Bush to take action to develop energy. Turn the finger at thyself first!

Ramprat,

I don't know how this thread turned into a Kerry bashing event, but there's some disinformation in that letter you posted. I found some information about SFC Reynolds.

Reynolds is not a medic, but rather a signaleer. His battalion provides long-haul and WAN transmissions in theater.

His source of information for the facts he cited are:
USAID Fact Sheet
Influential Iraqis
The Police Chief of Baghdad

His facts are explained here.

And there's more info here.