I am relatively new to ocean fishing and mooching. I have a boat in a slip at Ocean Shores and have now found myself addicted to coastal fishing!!!! I have been following many of the anglers posts and have been very impressed with the vast knowledge, respect and passion that many of you have for the outdoors, so I decided to jump aboard in hopes that I can learn a few things.

My first question:
My father and I have been mooching for salmon and have ran into a few snags. What size of leader and hooks would you suggest? Is a slip or a fixed better? For some reason we have broken off too many times on numerous fish. Its getting frustrating
Whats better mooching or trolling?

oops!! I guess my first question became the second and the third.

I throw my opinion in the ring -

30- 40 lb maxima ultragreen leader, double 4/0 hooks tied solid. My experience with slip ties is that they eventually loosen up a little and end up scrunching your herring up in a clump. Solid ties work great with cut plug herring as well as whole herring. To get a great roll and a long-lasting bait out of a whole herring rig as follows: Run both hooks one after the other completely up through and completely out the same hole so they come out the top of the herring's head between it's eyes; take the lead hook and hook it through the top of the herring's back just ahead or right where his dorsal fin is; take the trailing hook and run it clear through the herring just above his vent and let it trail out the other side; take the line running up through it's head and throw a half-hitch around his nose right in front of his eyes; snug it up throwing a kink in his nose giving you your roll. Experiment with how big a bite of his nose you get to obtain the easy roll or fast spin you're after. This way of rigging whole works great and the bait lasts much longer than when the belly cavity tears out of a cut-plug.

beachmack,

First off. Welcome aboard.

Of course I have to say that mooching is best.

But having said that I would recommend on the big water to troll till you find fish and then mooch the area till you have to go looking again. Nice thing is that mooching lends itself well to this technique without having to rerig all the time. For the feeders out there I would not worry about how light your leader is. 25-30# is fine, heavier if you like. Check with other guys on the typical depths to fish. Typically when trolling for actively feeding fish I'm a lazy boring 30-35 pulls (yds) kinda guy. Vary your direction on a troll and try kicking the motor in and out of gear every once an awhile if absolutely nothing is happening. Don't hesitate to try different things and be sure to watch the other guys (especially the 6 packs). Out there my biggest problem is fishing like we do inside for blackmouth, try to avoid the temptation to fish to deep. If you do though bring your gear all the way back up every now and then.

Hope that helps a little. Only one man's opinion and I'm sure you can do better. Good luck. Let us know how you do.

Welcome aboard!

I like to motor-mooch(put the kicker in and out of gear) out there. This covers some different depths and changes the speed of the bait.
In mooching the same thing is acomplished by stripping out line and reeling back in. The silvers love to follow the bait back up to the top and will usually hit as the bait begins to drop.
Both ways will catch fish when they are at variable depths.
Trolling seems to work better for me if I'm targeting a certain depth.

The journey is it's own reward.

Good fishing,
Hans

I knew I came to the right place, I sure appreciate your opinions!! You guys have already been help. I am one of those guys that can use all the information I can get. I really got worked up today, we lost probably eight fish because of our leaders breaking off!! I don't know what that could be from!?!? Could it be from the sharks? We've caught a few 5 footers, but I just can't believe those are all sharks.

What did the line look like at the break? Curled? - like it broke at the knot? Tie carefull knots and be sure to lube up your line (saliva) before cinching the knot down tight. If it's a real clean cut it could be sharks. If it's frayed/rough could be salmon teath - check your leaders after every fish. I'm jealous that you're there and I'm here. I'd much rather be loosing fish than loosing sleep working a deadline at the computer.

Tight Lines!!

The breaks were clean, no frays or curls. Very perplexing, I was using leaders that I bought from the store, 25# slips. So I tied a couple of my own with 30# super mono and even had a couple of those popped clean off!!

Were you tying slip-ties? No conclusive evidence, but I've always wondered what happens when a fish gets hooked with the sliding hook and slams it into the bottom hook.

Beachmack,

try fresh maxima ultragreen mono in 25lb or 30lb. Don't buy store bought leaders, you never know how long they've been there or of what quality. Learn how to tie your own & always lube w/saliva before sinching tight. Use Gami octopus or Owner super needles in 5/0 & 4/0. Set the hook good, then play the fish with a slightly loosened drag & keep the tension on. Don't horse the fish. Invite someone "in the know" to come fishing with you -someone who knows how to tie killer leaders & thread a mean herring!

Have fun! Soon you will be a real pro telling us how!

Hi, I like to tie mine with 50lb florocarbon leader. It is smaller in diameter than mono so you can go with a heavier line. Get a good quality florocarbin leader like seagur. Its not cheap but worth the money in my opinion. I also use good quality 4/0 and 5/0 hooks stainless steal. I used to tie a slip leader Not anymore. Now when I tie up my rigs. I tie up different lengths between the hooks. A half a dozen each with 3,4,5 inches between the hooks so I can match the bait size and still get a good bend in the bait so it will spin.

Again thanks a bunch for your guys help I really do appreciate it!! I was just really confused yesterday, and maybe what happend was just bad line. My father and I have ritually been fishing together for as long as I can remember. We have fished many of the coastal rivers and have caught numerous pigs in the 30's using egg loops that I have tied, and have never had that problem. Matter of fact I nailed a 36 pounder this year on a medium light steelhead rod. With the same line that I used when I tied my own. Does anyone have suggestions on how to tie my own leaders? Both slip and fixed.

Again you guys are awesome!!!
Thanks a bunch,

Greatfull fisherman beachmack

HI, Go to bobs how to section and tie and egg loop for you bottom hook and do the same for your top hook. That will get you a fixed rig. I have not had one break tied that way.

It sounds like you were into dogs, sharks or hake. Often times they will bite the back hook off only. Bigger ones the whole thing. But I do have kings saw the leader off on their teeth sometimes too but not often. I use straight 25 green Trilene Big Game line and always use fixed hooks. I caught an 80 pound halibut on that stuff so I know it's strong stuff. Constantly check your leader for nicks. Often times a fish will nick a leader between the hooks. I also tie everything up with snap swivels so you can change leads and leaders fast. I tie a barrel into the middle of my leaders to prevent twist and as a last catch of seaweed sliding down your line before it gets to the bait. I mostly motor mooch on feeding kings and simple fish tailing of the boat will change the depth of your line.

I disagree with the heavy leaders. I have caught fish to 74lbs with 15 to 20lb leaders and mainline. I think you get better flutter action on a mooch with lighter and longer leaders. it also depends on your set up. I use long rods to 11 or 12' and a knuckle buster reels. You never lose contact with the fish and have better control over your draq situation. Far superior set up than the short rods and baitcaster type reeels with heavy line you see most use. I always also have both sliders and fixed two hook set ups while mooching. Depends what the fish are doing which one I use. I will say I use fixed a majority of the time.

Motor mooching or wind mooching is really trolling IMHO. Mooching is done free floating with a school of bait over fish or just over a school of fish. You are mimicking the flutter and drop of a herring as they cruise through the bait ball and body slam them.

Motor mooching is not trolling. Regular mooching is using the existing current to impart action. Motor mooching is either to slow you down in the current, meaning you are going backwards, sit in one place, or creating a current type of action where one doesn't much exist.
Trolling you are covering a lot of water. Motor mooching you are covering very little water or if you are it's at a snails pace. Motor mooching allows for radical changes in depth with every fish tail of the boat or putting the motor in and out of gear. You don't "troll" the kelp beds.

My preference is 8ft long 15-20lb maxima chameleon leader with a barrel swivel in the middle and a bead chain to the mainline, sliding sinker no more than 4oz depends on current less if possible, hooks 1/0-3/0 tied solid size depends on size of bait, fresh dipped bait when available and a 10'6 rod with a old penn 109 (stainless vs plastic) or my winona. keep your bait moving you won't get near as many dogfish.

Got some new stuff and gonna try it again tommorrow. I'll give a report when we get back in. Looks like I'll be bottom fishing as well. Thanks for all the advice and we will see what happens!!!!!

Good luck to all, and fish on baby!!!

Stlhd,

I said IMHO in other words in my opinion.where I learned to mooch in BC. from mooching purist and snobs. If you are using the motor to move your bait you are trolling. Using the motor to maintain position above the fish like in a back eddy behind a pt. or an island is not trolling.