Say, if Bonneville (BPA) can put up millions of dollars worth of bounty on Pikeminnows to help reduce the impact on Salmon/Steelhead eggs and smolts, why can't the WDFW start addressing the impact the Sea Lions are having on the adult populations? I personally lost approximately a dozen Springers this year to Sea Lions and seen a whole lot more. Getting a little tired of it and would gladly buy a one or two day permit to whack a few of these critters.

Just curious how many others are getting as fed up with this as I am.

If I had to choose between getting rid of the sea lions or the nets I'd take nets every day of the week and twice on Sundays. It is frustrating to lose fish to those bastages but I don't think the solution is getting rid of them, we just need more fish in our rivers and everybody will be happy.

Kinda along the same topic...I was at Thomas' Eddy on the Sno. yesterday and saw the head of a sea lion poke up just above the tail out. Anyone else see them up the Sno that far before???

Northern Pikeminnows a/k/a Squawfish aren't protected by the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Unfortunately, sea lions are.

I've seen sea lions as far up as the sultan hole on the sky. I heard they were up there on the summer king opener this year.

A guide buddy of mine in Ak. (who shall remain anonamous for obvious reasons) took out a big bull sealion with a seal bomb and a gaff this summer.
He was fishing a real popular "big king" spot that has had 1 particular big bull in there for a few years that has taken alot of kings, he is (was)very stealthy, you usually didn't know he was there till he had your fish. Anyways, this 1 afternoon in late July this guide had hooked a couple fish and lost 1 to mr. sealion, his 3rd fish was close to 40 lbs. and about 10 ft. from the net when the sealions grabs the fish and swims about 30 ft. away and starts thrashing (shredding) the fish, the guide grabs a seal bomb, lights it and lets the fuse burn down so that it will explode shortly after hitting the water, he tossed it to within a couple feet of the sealion and the sealion put his face under the water to check it out just as it goes off, mr. sealion totally stunned is now on the surface doing a big circle on his back when the guide gets the idea to cast a 16 oz. leadhead jig out thats on a bottom rod with 80lbs. tuffline on the reel, he casts over the sealion then reels the jig to within a couple feet then sets the hook, the sealion doesn't react and the guide is actually able to drag this sealion (still doing the backstroke in a big circle) close to his boat, he now grabs his gaff hook and clubs the sealion on the first 2 passes by the boat, seeing little effect he decides on the 3rd pass to stick the gaff right behind the flipper, mr. sealion suddenly comes out of his concussion and spins around and bites the gaff and dives under the boat, the guide lost site of the sealion for about 15 minutes till he see's it floating about a 100 ft. behing the boat, gaff hook in the lung finished him off. Another guide from another resort watched the whole thing, said it was a pretty impressive show, wish I could have seen it!

I'd like to see them thinned a bit also. I've never seen a Sea lion as high as Dagmars. There are many Harbor seals in the Snoh river, much smaller and much better hunters than Sea lions. I seen several today, one above Crabb bar and one below T. Eddy.

I would pay to see that ! can you imagine how many salmon and steelhead they eat Every Day ?

They are part of the ecosystem too. The wild fish are as much their's as ours.

I'm not saying they all need to be culled, I'm saying they obviously need to be thinned out. The resident population has increased dramatically and they have no predator in the Columbia, or near it's mouth for that matter. I understand well that squawfish aren't protected and sealions are, but their numbers are at record highs and even the gamey's I know would like to see them thinned out. I personally believe they must be managed like many other species and I for one would enjoy immensely the opportunity to legally pop a few for a pittance. Then I'd like to move on to the Terns that are becoming resident on the islands in the Columbia and pushing out the nesting Geese and gorging themselves on smolts.

Now that's funny, the joke that is.

I've never heard of the theory in regards to only a small percentage of Sea Lions chase Salmon up the rivers, but I wouldn't doubt it. The rest of them I'm sure catch theirs in the ocean. We do have a hecka of alot of resident Sea Lions that make the lower columbia home though. They're so thick now during Springer season you almost beg not to hook up when ya see them cruising the flats. They know an easy meal when they see it.

Sea lions do have a natural predator that once kept their population in check--- man. That’s right the tribes once hunted sea lions on a regular basis. The problem now is that the tree huggers have a cow if you hunt them and the tribes would rather eat at MacDonald’s. Since we have removed hunting on these animals their numbers have gone thru the roof and are having a unnatural effect on the population of salmon that are trying to live in a unnatural world. This is why we as the dominate species’ on the planet must “manage it”. Managing does not include “letting nature take its course” that’s why we have forest fires, deer populations that eat them selves out of house and home (happened in co. in the late seventies) and too many sea lions. I think that the tree huggers and some of us forget that man is part of the ecosystem too.

Yes they are, but they don't just eat "wild fish " and they are not endangered as are a lot of wild fish stocks . lost a monster silver at Sekiu last year biggest Coho I have ever seen in 25 yrs. of fishing to a sea lion , he didn't even eat it just killed it broke my line and started swimming along side of our boat, had to pick up and run about 3 miles to lose the dam thing . fish of a lifetime gone in a matter of minutes . Oh yeah I just love those cute little Ba%$&ds

Fishing Springers last May in St. Helens, the best spot in the area is at the bottom of Sand Island, just out from the line of pilings. A big hogline forms there on each outgoing because everyone knows that is one of the best spots in the area.

After fishing there for about 5 hours one day, I refused to fish there evr again becasue 10 out of 12 fish we saw hooked went to the Sea Lion. 10 of 12!!
He would cruise along behind the line of Qwikies and wait for a fish to hook up. On each occasion, he had the fish after about 10 seconds. He was conditioned. He knew exactly how to catch these prize fish at our expense, and did so very effectively. I didnt drive 4 hours and spend all that money to go down there to fish, only to finally hook up and lose the fish to a one of these *******s! Sea Lions didnt hunt this way 20 years ago!. Animals that fit this description who are a nuisance should be shot IMO. They aren't hunting fish anymore, they are preying on the catch of human fisherman.

"Every once in a while you have to pull the weeds."

Oh, boo hoo, man against beast and beast won! I've seen it, my boyfriend lost the trophy King to the sea lion. We all actually laughed at the luck as he knew we were catching. It's their game, can't play, don't fish. We aren't the only ones out there-there are others that want fish too. We are just visitors in the sea world, want to shoot sea lions - go to someone other than a forum. I have seen the animals mauled by humans-not decent in any kind of way. YAH, yee haw the guy that shoots them, have some balls, and change the law!

the sea loin problem at the seattle locks seems to have disappeared after the state and the feds looked the other way and let the indians remove them

first off it's not funny to watch 400lb animal kill anything like that JUST FOR FUN ! Maybe if you watched sealions kill penqins and tear them to pieces Just For Fun ( they don't eat them) you could have a good laugh watching that . You obviously have no feelings for the salmon and steelhead that live all thier live just to be ripped to shreds Just for Fun ! Maybe if the pit bull that lives up the street from you catches your cat and rips it to pieces I might think thats funny ! how would you feel then? I didn't lose anything that day the sealion killed that fish , BUT the fish sure did , they are no rules for sealions only for people, believe me if the laws against killing sealions was dropped they would cease to exist! " Quote "have some balls change the law, don't you think we would if it was possible? OH thats right I sorry I forgot you don't have any !

first off it's not funny to watch 400lb animal kill anything like that JUST FOR FUN ! Maybe if you watched sealions kill penqins and tear them to pieces Just For Fun ( they don't eat them) you could have a good laugh watching that . You obviously have no feelings for the salmon and steelhead that live all thier live just to be ripped to shreds Just for Fun ! Maybe if the pit bull that lives up the street from you catches your cat and rips it to pieces I might think thats funny ! how would you feel then? I didn't lose anything that day the sealion killed that fish , BUT the fish sure did , they are no rules for sealions only for people, believe me if the laws against killing sealions was dropped they would cease to exist! " Quote "have some balls change the law, don't you think we would if it was


First off, I own the Pit bull, and I'm allergic to cats so your comparison didn't work. Also, a 400lb animal shredding a fish and a 200lb human bleeding-bonking a fish gets the same result. I am not trying to hug every sea lion, I just don't see every one as an enemy because it wants to eat too. Comparing feelings to a cat compared to a fish you eat is just wrong!

I simply wanted to point out that there are other sides to view than just the fishermans. And don't think I wouldn't kill that being or any other if threatened. I just don't fill my head with hate for an animal that doesn't have the brain capacity to know that it pisses people off.

There are many predators out there killingthe salmon and steelhead. Not the least of which are chemical pollution, poor logging practices, over grazing, pesticides, gill nets, dams, poachers, etc, etc.
I just learned of a study on the Columbia that found that mergansers are one of the very worst salmon and steelhead smolt killers.

Yeah, I would like to see some control on seals and sea lions. But I bet it would be much easier to do something about the mergansers, and it appears they are at least as big a problem. Sometimes that ugly thing we see, like a sea lion shredding a salmon have a huge impact when some of the things we don’t see are as bad or worse.

Dave,

I agree with the megansor thing I remember doing some trout fishing this spring on flowing lake and just watching dive down get fish. Then they go to fly away and they cant. Tried some sturgeon fishing on the ebey slough this year and they where killing the smolt and cutties. I talked to someone and I was told they are endangered birds. I would really like to make them endangered.

Fish On
Kevin

These Sea Lions serve no real purpose naturally speaking. They are alomost always rogue males, not part of a breeding pack, with the sole purpose of one thing only. Eating............

Reducing this population would actually benefit the the ecosystem.

The biggest hurdle is at the federal level.....

Angg,

I agree with AM that WDFW should cull them, not anyone with a beef (like me) against them. They at least should be "managed" like Hershall evntually was.

I guarantee if Sea Lions looked more like big nasty rats or sharks, instead of big dogs, everyone would be out for their heads.

I think you will find that in puget sound the population is no where near what it was 20 years ago. Back then drive through downtown Everett and you'd hear the non stop barking of hundreds of California sea lions. Not to side with or against anyone but it does seem strange, especially in a place with lot's of salmon like Alaska, that someone would use all that effort to kill a sea lion instead of just letting him have the fish and go catch another one. Or is the salmon population that dimished where you need to fight a sea lion to the death over a single fish?

I know what you are saying but I don't have a problem with the sea lions or seals and I am out there almost every day. Maybe they don't like how I look or smell? I remember when all this was argued before about Herschel decimating the runs in the locks when the tribes had nets strung both sides of the entrance. Seals and sea lions I doubt take .5 % of the runs. I am sure it's frustrating to lose a nice fish you worked so hard to hook but go out in the ocean and you can lose them to blue sharks and all sorts of nasty critters. It's part of fishing.

AT the risk of starting another cat debate from another poster, I have actually thought a lot about this. (By the way , if you think sea lions are cruel killers- check out the grizzleys)

I think on a fishing forum if you want a "so sorry', "that sucks", "sea lions should be shot" reply, you've already got it. But, to the general public, you just lost a fish. They don't care as their is another one down at Safeway. However, if the public safety is at risk, people will listen. I have no doubt that someone will be severely injured or killed by the rule of no taking the fish out of water to release. I have also thought of the lion grabbing the net and pulling me in. Now that is news! A nd that is the only thing that motivates the general public. If you only state personal issues , the public will not be concerned. When little Jenny gets bit, the audience will be open.

As far as hunting- killing sea lions, there are many other factors to consider other than the unfortunate actions of sea lions that have become aggressive and don't migrate. First off, did we play into this(humans normally do ) what is the percentage of fish taken ( <1%) always can be opposed)- is the hunt ,for the annoying ones or a free for all. just the rogue males? How many and how will this effect their reproduction. Will this effect the whales that prey on them and their reproduction?
I guess I think we have been a nation that has abused our resources for our convenience and we truly need to look at how we have contributed to this issue. Have the sea lions changed, or did we help it along. So many hatcheries and so many coveted "natives", I guess we know now that mother nature was right on!

So, don't think I want anyone hurt by an aggressive wild animal, I just think we need to look at long term effects rather than shoot outs resulting from anger.

I stopped in Astoria to see the sea lions and it was indeed a hog fest. The noise was incedible form the males and there were probably 100 new ones than I had seen earlier in the year. They weren't hungry, there was fish on their snoozing docks and the sea gulls were eating them. I was in front of a couple and overheard their coversation. There were metal tanks-bars, and the fellow said they were sink tanks. They catch them and sink them. HMMM, I did see the tanks and the sea lions resting in them but there were also official (wildlife???) trucks there so I can only assume they were for marking the sea lions. There were many branded with numbers.
I listened to a young group of males tell a lady friend that "oh, you just walk by and they swim off" and then watched as they tiptoed up to them on the docks and jumped back . The boat owners looked with as much contempt for the sea lions as the looky loos. Talked to some fishermen and one just barked at them as he went by and the huge male barked at him and that was it. I asked him if they ever go after him, "oh sure' he said.

I do have some pics, but will save them in order not to enrage anyone. But, it was odd when I stopped in Warrenon (across from Astoria) there were no sea lions to be seen on the docks.

Ok, just one more blab on_- talked to a fellow at Warrenton marina that said chinook was closed at buoy 10 and proceeded to talk about all the drowndings out there to the point my sister was not about to let me take her kids out on a charter anywhere near there. So, i taught them to crab instead.

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Regulations aside, if someone were to follow AngG's line of logic about the decency of 'mauling' sea lions--wouldn't it be just as indecent to 'maul' salmon and steelhead?

Wow, this is the last time I post and accidently hit the escape key, too tired to write everything again.
Anyhow,yes it is just as wrong to maul fish. If you think I am agreeing with you, then please read on. Is snagging a fish in the hind end mauling? Bonking it halfway only to decide you don't really want it mauling? Kicking it up on the bank because it's just ' a pink or a chum" mauling? The difference, is we have a choice. WE are not animals and I have never seen a 'kind" animal killing. There are many other animals that eat salmon and none of their methods are kind. I am not for diminishing our fish population due to some rogue males but I also don't think they are doing anything another animal wouldn't , including humans at times. If we can't even expect humans to regard the efforts of many to keep our fisheries alive, why blame an ignorant animal?
So, whatever, I get my opinion, you get yours. I'll go legally catch a fish (hopefully tomorrow) and still be able to at least look at your opinion as valid in your beliefs and try to understand others that have had different experiences than mine. There's really no fight, just the right to have our own opinions. I've never been one to join the bandwagon just because it's "populor", so I won't be backing down on illegal killing of any animal unless it's to protect ones life.

GOOD FISHING TO ALL!

I hooked a nice silver today and had a seal bobbing and weaving his way closer. I'm a bank fisherman for the time being, couple years from a good boat.
I left after awhile cause the seal was making me nervous, anyone know if seals will come into 3-4 ft of water and pull a salmon from a stringer?

SilverKing

I've seen a seal pretty far up in a river. Way past the tidewater. To get there it had to navigate water lower than 3-4 ft deep.

I wouldn't think your salmon were safe if the seal was hungry enough.

Well, then, you haven't fished Alaska, have you?

Seriously, I understand your point. I personally am in favor of some negative reinforcement to teach them to keep their difference. Let me just say, based on a story I heard from someone that I didn't know real well, who heard it in a parking lot when the people didn't think he was listening, that it one has some of the larger M-80 style firecrackers, with the waterrepellant fuse,and one coats the fuse hole where the fuse enters the barrell of the firecracker with silicone or some such, and then one wraps the fircracker with about 1 inch of pencil lead, and then one were to present the firecracker to the sealion in the water at a range of 15 to 20 feet (they said a wristrocket worked well), well, my friend who isn't heard the guy in the parking lot say that the sealions tend to depart the area quickly, unless they are in immediate hot pursuit of a fish. Then it takes two or three of them.

Or so I've heard. I have also heard that it['s hard as hell to light a firecracker while you're drifting out of the line, grabbing for the net, and trying to stash three rods while your friend is fighting a 20 lb'r with a sealion on it's butt. If you know what I mean.

I have a simple solution, let’s all pool our money and pay a bounty to the Indian Tribes for Sea Lion noses. Everyone knows that the Indian Tribes have ~ if they don’t already have the right to KILL Sea Lions it wouldn’t take long for them to get it if they need to , and for a bounty per nose I think we could get some takers to help thin out the Sea Lions and Seals. Just a thought for a big problem!

AuntyM, I think the Indian Tribes could very easily get the Feds to OK the kill to help protect the Indian's share of Salmon, heck they can kill Gray Whales with big ass guns and chase boats.

I agree with riverliver. think that would be a great idea, paying tribes for removed sealions. also, is there such a thing as good PR for tribes.

The Makahs have had the treaty right to kill seals and sea lions since 1855 and they do so on a regular basis today. Anyone who goes to Neah Bay year after year would be able to testify that the populations are seriously reduced compared to just a few years ago. Unfortunately they now kill sea otters too since they "discovered" sea urchin harvesting. The sea otter is the major natural predator of the sea urchin. The tribes , like others who fish for them. get $500 per # for the eggs....sushi delicacy in Japan and all.

No one notices the seal harvesting in Makah land because we only focus on the whaling.

WOW! As the author of this obviously hot, and somewhat passionate, topic I'll have to pour the coals to her a little bit more due to some of the responses that are pretty "pathetic", whatever.

My reasons for culling the resident Sea Lion herd are many. And yes, some are based on personal experience of having numerous fish, and gear, taken by them. This in itself is not sound reason to have a whack fest on these guy's. Yes, we've mismanaged a number of our resources, but we try to make it better. This is another area were I feel we need to step in and take charge due to the lack of natural selection taking over. It's absolutely ludicrous, in my humble opinion, to say this is not a problem. That the Arctic Terns are not a problem, hell, they're not even indigenous to this area. That the Merganser's aren't a problem. That the rafts of 150-250 Cormorants feeding voraciously on smolts isn't a problem. It is a problem. Name me the predator of the Tern, Merganser, Cormorant, and Sea Lion's that are resident to the Columbia river and it's tributaries? Can't! They ain't got one.

Granted, we do need to have this addressed legally and ethically. But in the meantime...... I'm not gonna shed a tear the next time I see a Seagull standing on a bloated Sea Lion carcass floating down the river, too funny.

Maybe less fishermen is the answer? Without fishermen sea lions aren't a problem either. Every time man f's with the food chain something get's out of whack. Then we try to fix what we broke and break it worse. Round and round it goes until there's nothing left to worry about....or fix.