Spawnout –
First I would like to thank you for contributing your part for the future by the maintenance of the coho habitat on your property; if only others were as diligent.

I in no way had meant to imply that all unclipped salmon were wild – in my original post I said
“Over the course of the summer have seen lots of pictures of unjclipped (sic) (many of which are likely wild) salmon on this and other broads…” In many fisheries how does the concern angler differ between wild and hatchery? Should they error on the side of the wild fish?

Further like you I don’t have a problem with the harvest of wild salmon from robust populations and don’t believe I have ever said otherwise. My question was that much of the debate surrounding the wild steelhead resource seemed to center around the lack of “science” in steelhead management. Issues like escapement goals to high, exploitation rates to high, management to rigid to respond to changing conditions, etc. It is obvious that many that raised those issues for steelhead don’t feel that they applicable to salmon management, I merely asked the question of what they found different in the science of salmon management that gave than more comfort in bonking wild fish that is lacking in steelhead. management. No matter where we go in steelhead management issues like escapement goals will a key componement of the management.

You mentioned that steelhead lend themselves more favorably to CnR than salmon. I would agree. When this is coupled with the “special aura” that steelhead foster, and the continued developing of the attitude that a “game fish is too valuable to just catch once” (Lee Wulff?) it is unfortunate that the Wild Steelhead debate was not focused on these social and economic arguments rather than the “muddled science” debate we have had.

To date only two of the “science” issues have been brought to the table – 1) the lack of all hatchery fish being clipped. While that should not be an issue in places like your Willapa Bay example in other areas it probably should be. 2) The small run size of steelhead populations.

Here are a couple of examples of terminal salmon fisheries (avoiding the mix stock questions) on wild only or where most hatchery fish are clipped) with run sizes comparable to those of some of our steelhead populations where some of the WSR folks seem to be comfortable in bonking salmon. Run sizes based on the 2004 forecasts – all wild fish.
Hoh River -- spring/summer chinook = 1,450
-------------- fall chinook = 4,240
-------------- coho = 8,000
Quillayute – Summer chinook = 1,415
-------------- Fall chinook = 4,240
Samish ----- coho = 11,300
Elliot Bay --- fall chinook = 10,030

Tight lines
S malma

I haven't caught any slivers this year that are clipped (off of Possession or Shipwreck). The run on the Snohomish seems pretty healthy to me. Anyone have any data as to whether those hatchery fish are clipped?

One thing that I'm doing is putting power bait in my hootchie. My theory is that this will work like the Salmon scenters and attract hatchery fish as opposed to wild.

Jeff -
The coho in those areas would likely be a mixture of Snohomish and Stillaguamish and Tulalip hatchery fish as well some headed towards South Sound.

Preseason forecast (prior to any fishing) for the returns the Snoh/Stilli area was for a hatchery run of 49,000 (as I recall only a 1/3 or so were clipped) and a wild run of 230,000. So yes the coho run is healthy (though marine survival are expected to be low average) and it is not surprising that you are see low numbers of clipped fish.

Tight lines
S malma

The chinook that go up the Klickitat are not cliped. One of the reasons I heard is that way any of those fish that are caught below bonneville have to be realsed and that asures that more fish make it back to the Klick. That allows a better fishery for the Indians and the sports fisherman and women.

Diehard, are you talking about spring chinook in the Klick? Because now you can keep any kings below Bonneville. Or maybe you meant to say coho instead of chinook? I know that a huge % of the upper Columbia hatchery steelhead aren't clipped for the reason that you stated, but I think your comment/wording about the Klick is incorrect. I'm not "picking on you at all" BTW. Have a great weekend!

Smalma, I have been reading the post about the hosing we anglers are receiving by WDFW. I am surprised there wasn't more discussion about the management of salmon vs steelhead on this thread. Do you know if salmon are managed by MSY? Do you think steelhead are getting mismanaged to extinction using MSY?

Fishchaser –
Interesting questions and my answers likely will be unpopular with many on this site.

Both steelhead and salmon are managed under much the same scenarios, which are with escapement goals established at MSY levels. This in most cases is the result of court orders. In the strict sense most of these populations are not managed for MSY. While the escapement goals are at MSY levels year to year management is typically design so that the expectation is that escapement will be at or above the established level; escapements above the goals is not considered to be a management failure in fact is expected. This is contrast by what is considered to be classic MSY management where is fish escaping the fishery above the goal were considered wasted.

Today in most cases the forecasts and exploitation rates established for each run of fish is typically “buffer” to provide some cushion for management error. While many would consider these precautions to less than adequate the fact remains that when run sizes are larger than escapement goals it is more typical for the post fishery escapements to be above rather below the goals.

With any sort of reasonable productivity for a given stock MSY escapement levels are typically well above population viability levels. So no I don’t believe that steelhead are being managed to extinction by MSY management. If the Wild Steelhead Release folks are correct the application of WSR in under escaped runs will prevent the collapse of the population. If the population does not increase then harvest is not likely the cause of the low returns.

The management being attacked in the other thread you referred to is an example when fisheries are managed more by court decisions than biological principles.

Tight lines
S malma