Funny how snotran does not post his email addess... Hmmm....

I say folks who make their first post such a negative bunch of BS, should be booted. Not the kind of folks we want on this board anyhow.

SA

I was fishing right next to CM that afternoon. I do not have a problem with the accuracy of his statement.

I was skepical at first too. That was until I saw where the coho are being hooked. No way a guy could floss a fish and have a hook located deep in the fish's mouth like it is.


Naw...these fish are biting. No question about it.

Hello Gregor:

Where were you fishing? I thought I saw you at pilchuck. But I didn't see CM, though.

I don't really care why people have to throw stones or why people have to try to over compensate to disprove what they really know. I know what I have seen and what I have experienced and most of the fish caught with DN spoons are lined. I wonder how long it took for the locals on the Kenai and Russian rivers to finally admit that they are really lining fish. I won't pass judgement on it, I would just like every one to just admit what they really know. And for you that still hold on to your convictions, let me ask you this. Have you ever fished for river coho in a unpressured river environment? If you have you would have experienced a chase down by a agressive fish. I have yet to see a single person yell from their boat " Did you just see that fish follow my line all the way in?" I do know that these Snohomish coho are the pickiest darn things to swim and the only way to get them is to fish the way we are. Lining! Lets just call a spade a garden tool and stop fooling our selves. Atleast it's made sporting by using light line. No one out there I've seen has been tossing 5/0 trebles wrapped with lead. It's not the worst thing to do. And if you still don't want to admit it try dropping your leader to 12" and see if they strike it? That's my $.02. And yes thru the law of averages ( I'm lost w/o spell check) some of them will really bite.

Sorry dr., you have me confused with someone else.

Hi ALL

Here is my 2 cents worth/observations on Coho fishing on the Snohomish. 1st I don't fish from a boat and don't really plan on doing it anytime soon. This is the 1st year in a while I've been putting time in on the Snohomish. Normally I'm fishing other places. I have been fishing in a very popular place and being the inquisitive guy I am I have asked questions and checked out a lot of fish hooked, landed and kept.

1st, there are A LOT of fish in the Snohomish as most of us know. I wish I had this many fish on some other rivers I fish where they are more aggressive. These things are TUFF!! With that many fish, there is no-way that there will not be some flossing and foul-hooking of fish. The numbers of fish and us being down where they are, add up to things not working the way we hope all of the time.

That being said. There are ways to legally hook these fish and get them in the mouth. They don't work all of the time. Here are 3 methods I have witnessed or tried and the results I have seen.

1. Drifting corkies or beads as you would for Steelhead. I've seen more fish foul-hooked this way than any other. I've also seen some that look like they were lined with the hook in the head but outside the mouth. I have also seen a fair number of fish with the hook in their mouth where it was obvious that they took it. So this method does work.

2. Casting a 1/2 once jig in various colors and do slight twitches (I've done this for humpies with good success). I've only seen 1 or 2 people try this. I've seen a few fish fouled and a few more with the jig outside the mouth. I have also seen a couple of fish with the classic jig hook-up with it in the front upper jaw like a steelhead taking a jig under a float. I haven't seen enough here to make a for sure judgement.

3. Last s the Dick Nite. I've never been a big Dick Nite fan mainly because on other rivers I fish I can get away with bigger spoons and spinners. This seems by far to be the most popular method and the most deadly. I have not seen any fish foul hooked and have only seen a few fish with the hook outside the mouth. ON the other hand. I saw a guy land 2 on Friday that swallowed the Dick Nites DEEP and there was no way they were lined. I'm still figuring this method out. As for myself, I got one Thursday in close to shore (like he followed it) and the DN was in the mouth. I have NO DOUBT this method works.

Also Friday it was interesting how 2 other guys using the same DN as me (1 right next to me) limited and I didn't touch a thing. The only difference we could figure out had to do with the leader I was using. Now if we are lining all the fish with DN's, I should of lined something on Friday considering the amount of fish that were in front of me for over an hour. And the fact that all 4 of those fish had the DN in the mouth proved to me without a doubt that they work.

One other thing to some of the ignorant boaters out there (not most of you). Understand that there are bank-fishing holes on all rivers. That is just the way it is. We don't mind if you fish it with us. Just don't park in the middle of the hole where we cast and then wonder why we ask what your doing. Also, with a river the size of the Snohomish, there is no reason why you have to slowly drive over the slot we are fishing and get that dumb look when I tell you that you almost got my lead in your head. I've been used to casting in the same spot with no problem for 3 days. So when all the other boats travel the inside, far away from us, it is a bit of a surprise when your dumb *** is 20 feet off shore in front of me. I am very curtious to boaters. Please be the same towards us. I'm sure there are ***** you have to deal with on the bank as well. I'm not one of them and if I think they are bothering you I have been known to let them know as well (in a nice way).

Thanks and let's hope the rains show this week in moderation!!

K&P,
Thanks for your info!
I'll have give the Snoho a try as I just can't get a bite in the Sky.
Where should I go on the Snoho to fish for Coho?

Summer-Run

Nobody tries shortfoating roe above these picky hoes ,what about a float and jig combo .Fish well above bottom and the whole floss issue is solved ,not to mention plunging floats is the fuunnest part of all ,thats why we use them up here in B.C..

I tried floats/jig 1 day on the Snohomish with no luck. A week earlier I did pick up a 10-12 lb hen using that method on the Wallace. It is great to see the float go under, set and feel the tug.

Canyon Man--
Not going to bash you about the difference between flossing, snagging and a bite, But, I am going to tell you that 90% of the fish you hook are Flossed.
Coho will case a dick nite under certain conditions, that requires visabiltiy that is around 3-4 feet. Anything over that and the fish are all jambed into the slots like the rock wall below the 522 bridge.
Trust me on this, I have been fishing that hole for almost 25 years with a dick nite. All those fish that have been taken in that hole are lined up like soldiers.
Once you have the dick nite at the right level, it is a slaughter fest as all the boats are proving. Same gose for Thomas Eddy, There are only about 3 holes that are producing fish and those fish are lined up perfect for flossing and snagging.
I will argue with any of you about the rock wall, you are not hooking fish by getting them to bite, so call it what it is. Flossing pure and simple. If you ever get a chance to watch a dick nite go through a hole loaded with fish and see what happens when the line gets in their mouth, you will see the head go back and forth, mouth wide open trying to get rid of the line, as they breath, the dick nite will most of the time hook them somewhere around the maxilary. If you hook them right in the end of their beak, they probably bite it. That is how they bite. I have watched you and the rest of the show in that hole.
Now for a little trivia question for all of you that will start bashing my post---
Where was the Dick Nite perfected, what river?
Who came up with the set-up for throwing Dich Nites? Is he alive or passed on?
Who started Dick Nite fishing on the Snohomish?
Then ask yourself, how did I learn this system? Maybe from some old timer that has been protecting it for 30 years?
Tough to watch a pack of boats turn it into a slaughter in one hole and call it sporting.

CM - don't let the yokels get you all flustered. Seeing how I have missed this fishery, I appreciate the reports and photos.

w.coyote - I couldn't disagree yet agree with you any more.

For those that actually know *how* to fish a DN, they are not lined (unless on purpose). I'd guess less than 10% of everybody on the Snoho can fish a DN *properly*.

The other 90% are probably just flossing fish with a DN, and don't know any better.

As I've said many times in previous posts, coho hooked in the tip of the snout with a DN is not flossed. Any time you find the DN in the corner of the mouth, odds are, it was flossed.

Parker
You are almost right, I'm sure that a small percentage of fish are going to bite the DN but that percentile is very small. I would disagree with you that EVERY fish hooked in the nose is legit. But we will never know this unless some one straps a very, very small camera to a DN. Although I do suspect that shortening your leader will tell the truth about the flossing delema. A coho who is really intent about hitting a DN will not have any quarrals with a 36" leader. I am not passing judgement about this method, but the truth is the truth.

I haven't been fishing the Snohomish/Sky because of the clear water. I've been fishing other rivers, focusing on resting or holding fish. I'm avoiding fish that are stacked/stale or traveling. And since we're sharing observations on dick nites...

If I'm flossing, then I'm much better at it before 7:30am than after.
The 50/50 dn has been, by far, the most productive for me. I've tried two other patterns and they haven't come close.
I have been hooking fish inside the corner of the mouth. I've also been hooking them in the roof of the mouth, in the tongue, and in the throat.
I had a silver this morning give me three chances at him on one cast. I thought I had a whitefish chasing my lure and finally set the hook on the third tap, tap, tap series to find a nice buck on my line.
My leaders have been 3-4'. DNs can floss fish. They can also make fish strike.

Combie-
I would love to know when you ever saw me in that hole because I have only been there one time ever. What day was it that you saw me?
CM

P.S. I am definitely not saying that all the fish hooked are biting...many of them are lined and/or snagged. There is no way around this when you have this many salmon in one hole. However, I believe that the fish that are kept (hooked fairly from inside out) are biters. Again I believe it comes down to knowing how to properly fish a dnite and being quick enough to hook these fish when they do bite. These coho hold that little spoon for a millisecond and spit it so you better be quick...even on the biters.

Mike,
?????????????????????????????????????

I don't believe that I have slandered any one. I do believe that I made a personal observation on a fishery I am involved with on a daily basis. Could you elaborate as to how you came to this "hypothisis"

Cupo- My observations basically mimic yours. Two colors and sizes seem to "line" those fish much better that others . Also, W.C. I totally agree with you that some of these fish are lined and I'm sure you caught some that were even hooked nowhere near the head, but I believe what makes it right or wrong is what your after. If you are there just to line fish than I think you should rethink what you are doing....however, if you are fishing and really trying to find the biters have at it! As I have stated before lining and snagging some fish unintentionally when the salmon are as schooled up as they are right now is unavoidable. Simply release and/or break these fish off and keep looking for the biters because they are in there. I don't like the way you say we should just all "call it what it is" because I don't think that is what the fishery should be about at all.
For any of you that know me I would never like to make any enemy, I wish everybody could get along and have a great time on the river, but it seems whenever someone is having success (me or anyone else) there's always people out there that want to throw out some jab. This IS suppose to be a fun hobby for us all isn't it. Obviously, we all CAN'T just get along and that makes me very sad and worried about the future of our sport!
CM

Try a 2 ft leader ,seems to make all the difference.When you floss a fish ,it's like kissin you sister,not even worth mentioning.
I will be giving these dick nites the test on tuesday at a few spots stacked with coho ,am anxious to see if this is the ticket or another imaginitive way to floss fish ,sure hope it's the ticket

Now here you go getting all worked up again. No one is slandering anyone. This is just a part of open communication. I have done the research on flossing. Did it many years before many of you were even born. Stood right above gin clear water and watched a long leader with anything and a hook and what do you know, flossed fish. Why do you think most set-ups include a dropper for the weight?
When the fish are stacked up like they are at the rock wall, you are flossing. You can put all the pictures you want showing how good you are, but it is still flossing.
Most of you are just learning the Dick Nite method. It was great for 25 years fishing the rock wall with no one else there, now we deal with 15 boats racing down the river 2 hours before light to get to that one hole.
Take you Dick Nites and go up on the Skykomish and try to get them to "bite", you will have a hard time catching fish until the visability goes down and the Dick Nite hits them on the nose and entices them into biting.
That is unless you find a deap hole with a 1000 fish all stacked up just like the rock wall.
That is why most Skagit fishermen Boondog the Dick Nite, it brings out the bitters that will chase down and grab the Dick Nite.

Coyote:

Like mentioned in the other post (now deleted), I can see both sides of the issue. The explanations that you, Combie aand others are suggesting could very well be valid ones.

I just don't see CM an intentional "flosser".

The theory that the DN slides through the water, the long leader enters the fishes mouth...followed by the DN...fish-on. Yes, that does sound like flossing..so the theory would be fact, and with the added confusion that the DN IS in the fishes mouth, the non-intentional flosser would not ever know they did such a thing.

Sorry for the "tone" of the other post. I guess sometimes I come across stronger than I intend to.

Mike

Go fish the Lost and Situk rivers in AK. for Silvers if you want to know what a one feels like when it hits a lure. Watch them follow your lure in to shore on casts when they do not strike the lure. In 40 years of fishing the Snoho I have yet to see a Silver follow the lure. Pinks ,Chums and Kings yes . Better yet try fly fishing for them