Help Please! Are there any recommendations to tie swivels and lures to 20 and 30 lb leader? Mine keep coming untied at the worst possible moment - twice today while fishin-
Thanks

What are ya fishin for?

Bruce for Finding Nemo?

:p

Try the duncan loop or clinch knot per http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm
As it says, moisten the line when you tighten and pullem really tight. They should break when you tighten them (if not done right) or never.

We were fishin for blackmouth, just off Double Bluff today. We usually fish Possession Bar, but haven't had much success lately so we meandered up the Sound. Today, we got a bunch of shakers, also 3 solid hits - one almost in the boat before deciding to return to the sea, but one figured out how to untie the spoon again. I'm using Maxima Ultragreen leader (20 lb and 30 lb) with spoons or hoochies. I've tried half blood knots and uniknots - I know some of the half bloods have failed and I'm not sure if the uni knot has - or not. I do know neither knot looks very good when I'm done - I think because I don't know how to tie such heavy leader.

That half -blood knot you are tying is the same thing as a standard (ie un-improved) clinch knot. Although it never breaks, it basically sucks as a terminal tie for the very reason you stated.... it SLIPS and comes untied each and every time!

That's why the improved clinch knot was invented. simply slip that tag end back thru the big loop and pull on the standing end (mainline) to tighten the knot. If you have tied it correctly, the tag end should stand out at 90 degrees to the stack of coils, sandwiched between the first and second coils. That's what traps the tag end from slipping back thru the knot.

BTW even the improved clinch is a pretty lousy knot from the standpoint of break strength... only 75-85% depending on the brand of line. It's main advantage is it can be tied in about 10 seconds even if blind-folded. Ditto for the uni-knot or Duncan loop.

Are you fishing these behind a flasher? If yes 20lb is too light. I wouldn't go less than 30.

Thanks for the info. I have tried the improved clinch a couple times, but it didn't look any better and I thought it would untie as well. Is there any trick to getting the wraps to lay down flat or do I just need to be more careful when tying?

I am using flashers and started with 30 lb, but tried the lighter stuff to make it easier to tie (I thought).

A couple of points to remember for the knots your tying.
First with the heavier line, don't make a lot of wraps. 5-7 does just great with the knots. Make sure when you pull the line that you dont pull really fast and the end of the line isn't straight up when doing it.
Hold it perpendicular to the main leader and pull on the hook with the end of the leader. I used to have the same problems many years ago and these simple points made all the difference.

I use the clinch knot with a double loop at the bottom. Wet the knot in your mouth before you tighten it. Wet line will tighten up better and will not abraid itself. Make sure you get 8-10 twists with 20 lb line.

Good luck,


Steve

The only trick to tying that knot is NOT pulling on the tag end to initially snug up the knot.

Make your wraps, go thru the teardrop opening at the hook/swivel, then back thru the big loop you just created. Moisten the wraps, hold the hook/swivel in one hand, and pull on the standing end only in one smooth continuous motion. The wraps will lay down flat in nice tight coils. Now it is safe to pull on the tag end (directly perpendicular to the stack of coils) to secure the knot. VOILA! Absolutely foolproof if performed as described.

Your leader should be more like 50 lb from the flasher to spoon. 50 transfers more of the motion to the spoon. I've occasionally gone to more wraps especially with braid. 8 instead of 6, for instance, it seems to help.

Like was said before, be careful not to put too many wraps when you are using heavy mono.

With 30 lb. test, I only do 5 wraps, and it holds fine.

The other think you may consider is tying the same not, but start with the line doubled. Meaning, take about 8 inches of line and fold it back and hold the two together. Then feed the "folded" part throug the eye of the hook and tie the improved clinch knot as you have been doing. This give you two strands of mono through the eye of the hook rather than one.

Good luck. PS: I've heard good reports from Baby Island outside of Holmes Harbor.

Jeff Dodd
Langley

Much better! I think the key step was not to pull on the tag end. The knot looks fine now! Thanks for your help

I'd recommend that you try the Palomar knot instead of the improved clinch knot. It doubles the line through the eye and, I believe, tests out better for knot strength at 90-95% of the line strength.

I'm sure there are pictures on-line for it. You make a loop at the end of your line, put it through the eye of the hook/swivel/ring, tie an overhand knot and you'll have your gear hanging in the bottom of the knot, take the large loop and pass it over the lure/hook/swivel, moisten and snug it down. It is easy to tie, especially on the river when your fingers are cold - you just make a bigger loop.

I concur with the recommendation on heavier leader for hootchies - I use 50 lb test and tie off to a swivel with a 6/0 siwash. I bend the point of the hook out about 5 to 10 degrees and then bend the point down a little. I found out this summer that my hook-up ratio, at least on coho went way up by not having more than 18" of leader behind the flasher/dodger. That might be a little to agressive of spin for chinook and you could go a little longer which will give you hootchie a little slower rotation.

For spoons, I use 20# test and run them 4' to 5 ' behind the flasher/dodger as they have their own action. The heavier leaders tend to kill the action of the spoon.

I'm with BushBear. Tha palomar is very easy, very fast, never slips and has a high knot strength.

I tie a knot that is similar to a dunan loop. To tie it pass the line through the eye. Then grab the line about 3" above the hook and bring the tag up to the line and grab it. Now make a small loop and grab that. So you should now have it pointed back towards the hook with a small loop. Now wrap the tag around both lines 5 times. Then put the tag through the small loop and pull the knot tight by pulling up the slack by pulling on the tag and then pulling on the hook. When this knot is tied correctly with heavier line it will literally snap into place. I have no idea what this knot is called but it has never failed on me and is very easy to tie.

As always you will want to lubricate it before pulling it tight.

Palomar, hands down!

River's inlet knot...hand's down. 95% retention of line strength. I think the clinch knot is at 85% I've never melted one out.

http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_knots.html

Another vote for the Rivers Inlet knot. This knot won't break or slip. You have 3 "tags" to trim instead of 1, but the little extra efforts worth it. That said; the Palomer knot is the fastest to tie and give good results.

You all are the greatest! Went out today, got hits - and actually landed them to the boat! Didn't lose a single lure, though 1 did bit off the second hook. Hurray! Got to take my first Blackmouth home.. dinner is a few minutes away. Thanks again......