the commerical guys are really pushing to sort of push us sporties out. only a couple of butts per person a year!

Thanks everyone for your replies. Bushbear posted where I was going with this. I believe he is one of the ones included in our recent emails back and forth to try and come up with a solution. The last five years the halibut fishery has exploded. One thing I do not like is one charter operator out of Neah Bay that is pushing some things that sounds like they are going to be listened to again. Phil Anderson from the WDFW will follow his lead one more time. This particular charter has three boats in his fleet and as soon as the season is over here he heads to Alaska to finish fishing through September. He was primarily responsible for the Umatilla Reef closure called the "hot spot" in previous years before it was reconfigured into the C shape it is now. This closure was primarily in effect to keep us from catching bigger halibut to keep the poundage lower to extend the season. Now the C-shaped closure is to protect Yelloweye stocks and is closed to everyone. Before this it was closed strictly for non-tribal sportfishing only. The tribes and non-tribal commercials still fished it. This particular charter owner is pushing to close this area again. I do not agree with this as sporties should be able to catch a 50-70 pound halibut if they want. By closing this closer in spot again, puts the pressure back on the few other areas or pushes some of the sporties to have to travel farther out to more dangerous water. The charters know they can make this travel with no problem and cuts down on opportunity for the sporties in rough water, as is the case 50% of the time in May. Their larger boats can make this trip without much trouble. If you have a smaller boat then you definitely are out. The opener last year from May 11-16 from both charter and sport boats had 3822 fishers. The following May 17-23 had 897, May 24-30 had 327. The final June 15-19 had 2124 to finish. I think Neah Bay should be limited to a certain number of days per week to try and slow it down. I am positive one point to closing the Hot Spot will be to save the big halibut spawners. Don't let them fool you as it will still be fished by the tribal and non-tribal commercials. Don't forget the trawler by-catch dump for halibut is three times our Area 4 quota. I can’t imagine it will slow down the quota poundage as this area puts out big fish, but not as many as the chicken ranch. I would think the boat weight quota with four guys getting two fish would not be that much different than four guys at the chicken ranch limiting with four twenty pounders. The Hot Spot puts out fish but not that many, as all boats out there don’t usually come close to limiting. There is a proposal on the table to impose a five halibut limit per year quota. The charters are pushing for three. If you catch three 15-20 pound fish, you really are not going to have that much meat. Charters are also offering a limited entry, meaning no more added halibut charters. This seems like a win-win situation for them. This limits their competition, raises the value of their licenses and don't have to share quota with additional charters. This one particular charter I am referring to is also responsible for the Straight of Juan de Fuca closure during its most productive months-Feb through April. By them keeping this closed, you are forced to catch them at Neah Bay when they are on their way back out. This guy has more pull than all of us combined. This email is more pointed towards one particular charter and a couple of others. For the most part most charters are following. There is one exception and that is Tom Young of Tommycod charters. He has the right idea. He spreads around his catching to help protect resources. He doesn’t just halibut fish but also does other kinds of bottomfishing trips instead of halibut trips all of the time. This takes pressure off of the halibut and halibut areas. My number one idea that will be met with a certain no, what should be done is to open up the straights when the big boys are in and really create another fishery to take the pressure off of Neah Bay. It looks like there is no reason to try and keep it closed as there is too much pressure on the Neah Bay fishery now. The quota that is supposedly close to met in the straights every year is + - 25% and 2004 is not yet tabulated. I have a friend that is a charter in the San Juans and he does not fish for halibut as they are mostly gone when it opens. Not worth chasing. I used to fish the straights and quit because of poor results. Timing is bad. I do very well in Canada and Neah Bay during the right months. I too am on an advisory board. This is basically a feel good job for the state as you really have no say in what the final outcome is. They make it sound like you do and you go over information, but the bottom line is those decisions are made higher up and sometimes I wonder if our ideas are even discussed. It’s pretty frustrating. Try to make it to the Montesano meeting on January 6 at 10:00 to speak your point. I would like to see Dino, fire the commission and a couple of other high ranking WDFW officials and replace them with people that truly care about sportfishing.

first of all, when is pushing for rules that extend the season bad for fishing? the charters clearly want more days to fish, and though i am on the side of the charters, i truly don't see how longer seasons have a negative impact on the private angler. as for closing areas to extend seasons, it seems greedy to dismiss that because it makes your fishing harder. a 14 day season was a huge hit on not only the charters, but the entire north coast sportfishing economy. let us find ways to extend the season.

i have been to halibut meetings where the only people there were charter representatives, and the proposals that we were 100% opposed to passed anyways because wdfw was taking into account the private sports anglers (not one of which showed up). before the c-square was reopened, we clearly said it was going to have an impact on the season length, along with setting aside quota for a later opening. the halibut management of the past few years has been dominated by private boat interests, and the result has been shorter and shorter seasons.

you could limit the number of days at neah bay (which are already limited to 5 a week), but what days do you cut. to have the most impact, you'd have to cut friday and saturday (which i'm sure private boats would oppose for valid reasons). if you cut weekdays, it would have such a negligible impact on the quota that wouldn't give us more fishing days.

as for not limiting at the new open area, i have never come back without a limit, and the fish average 50-70 lbs. you cannot with a straight face tell me the fish aren't bigger. private boats typically don't fill limits statistically, so if the fish are bigger, the quota impacts are bigger.

as for the charter operator in question. you might as well mention pete's name since you make it so obvious. for me, i guess i realize that without the initial charter operators starting the halibut fishery out at neah bay... this discussion would be mute. how many have read articles describing how to catch halibut by charter skippers (like tom young)? how many follow charter boats (you won't admit it, but a large number do)? this certainly doesn't mean that the charters should get all the fish, and i have never heard any of them (including the ones you badmouth) say the private anglers shouldn't have access. of course, there have been pushes (supported by certain charters) to have the "non-local" charters pushed out of neah bay.

i won't be able to make the january meetings, but i do suggest you go. go with an open mind though, and talk to the charters to get their positions. we don't want to kick out the private anglers, but we are concerned about our ability to fish and the economy of town and port.

i think you are way off base when talking about firing people. in my dealings with the people responsible for our saltwater seasons, i have felt support to keep us open and fishing. do you realize how hard they fought to keep us fishing for halibut due to yellow-eye bycatch issues? did you enjoy king fishing in august off neah bay last summer? they aren't perfect, but i see the trouble they go through to keep us fishing (and i didn't even mention the fight for us to keep fishing for canadian halibut).

i still believe that the halibut fishery should open may 1 and run through the end of the entire quota. first, i think this would give people flexibility in scheduling their halibut fishing, so all the pressure doesn't happen during the first week of the season.... and it would certainly lengthen the season.

chris bellows
http://www.fly-fishing-neahbay.com

I fish for halibut in the Strait and San Juans and I would like to see those catch areas (which do not take a very large portion of the total sport catch) managed as a season starting sometime in May and going through July or so.

I agree that some sort of mechanism to slow down the ocean sport catch is needed.

Every year in Washington, and Canada

I too fish for halibut out of my own boat, although I don't catch very many during the open season. Most of my catch is in July and August while jigging for bottomfish after catching salmon all morning in areas that are long since closed. . .

My opinion is that we would be better off to include charter catches in the quota with commercials--since they are effectively commercial fisherman by definition-- and extend the season for the rest of us with a 5 fish annual limit. Also, it would make sense to open the fishery in the Strait earlier, to spread out the pressure and to allow a better "opportunity" for sportfisherman, since many people don't have the ability to chase them offshore.

If the WDFW is interested in opportunity for recreational fisherman, they should take into consideration weather/safety (May can be ugly) and the accessibility of sporties to chase them offshore. Otherwise, you are forcing many fisherman to pay to play, which is not part of the mission of the Department, or in the interest of the majority of the public.

Just my 2 cents.

FP

Chris,
The last couple of years have been banner years for Neah Bay halibut fishing. We had a couple of quotas that were enlarged due to more halibut. Looks like that will get cut back to the normal amounts from previous years. I did say that the fish were bigger at the Hot Spot. My biggest point I would like to make is why does Pete and other charters want the straights closed now? Wouldn’t this make sense to open this up and make another fishery? This would definitely take the pressure off of Neah Bay. Times have changed and now we should look this differently. The massive fishing pressure could be relaxed with fishing for halibut in Feb-April in areas 5-7. Would you back this? As far as keeping us fishing when the Yelloweye became an issue, that was the work of Tom Young, Mike Gilchrist, and Phil Leschowitz of Recreational fishing Alliance. These guys went to work to get the different closure area where most of the Yelloweye concentrations were the most and got a kill quota. Although we couldn’t keep the Yelloweye, without this quota all bottomfishing would have been finished.

Tell me how they even know when the freaking quota has been met when there isn't anyone checking everyday. Oh never mind they go off averages.

What about the days when the water sucks and most guys can't fish and don't catch anything, or if the bite is off that day?

Montesano huh? Got directions?

Sorry FP they are not.

If mapquest is working, the directions to the WDFW Montesano office from Olympia are given below:

I think it would be great to have a bunch of sport fishers show up for the meeting. It might send a hint to some folks that we do care about recreational sport fishing opportunities. I also think that the halibut, crab, and sport fish ad hoc groups should be formalized in the same manner as steelhead, shrimp, Anadromous, and Inland Fish groups are set-up. While there are some issues as to the value of the groups, I'm seeing some positive results coming in the two groups I am involved with. The ad hoc groups are dependent on staff deciding when and where to call a meeting. We need active participation.

Olympia to Montesano

5: Merge onto US-101 N via EXIT 104 toward ABERDEEN/PORT ANGELES. 5.9 miles Map

6: Take WA-8 W toward MONTESANO/ABERDEEN. 21.0 miles Map

7: WA-8 W becomes US-12 W. 11.2 miles Map

8: Take the JCT OLD WA-401 ramp toward MONTESANO/DEVONSHIRE RD. 0.2 miles Map

9: Stay straight to go onto OLD WA-410. <0.1 miles Map

10: Turn RIGHT onto DEVONSHIRE RD. 0.1 miles Map

11: End at 43 Devonshire Rd, Montesano, WA 98563-9618 US

Here? No longer.

In AK, yes.

FishPirate... I feel the same way.
My avatar is a slabspoon used when fishing out of P.A. years ago. Now I rarely fish up there anymore. :rolleyes:
I'm going coastal out of Westport.

I do.
Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Same as Bob

FP,

okay, say you get rid of the charters from the sport quota. the private boat angler currently takes between 70-75% of the poundage. based on last year's season... you'd gain a full 4 days (130% of 14 days) of fishing, which is not even a full week of fishing. to me that seems like an insignificant gain to restrict access to those who own boats (is that what you meant by "pay-to-play"?)

what i do like is that there is some agreement in going to an annual limit on halibut. this is a positive first step that i believe we can agree on, especially if we add fisheries like many are suggesting. imo, without an annual limit, any earlier openings (if the poundage would allow it) would just focus fisheries inside and then the pressure would just move, and not be reduced, to neah bay and la push.

the weather arguement is again imo total nonsense. there is a long history of halibut fishing in may, and it's a good thing to not have overlapping fisheries. may weather can be bad, but i've seen later openings marred by terrible weather.

fishinut,
i don't have all the info i would need to decide if halibut should be opened inside earlier. my first question would be what impact would that have on north coast quotas. if there's no impact, i could care less. let's also not forget the economy on the north coast if there would be a reduction. areas 3-4 have no winter blackmouth fishing, or other winter/spring opportunities. halibut fishing is the most important fishery to the port and town of neah bay. i'm very cautious when any proposals that might impact us come out. i see a concern among some private anglers to make their fishing easier (later openings, close fisheries, opening the strait in the winter)... and while i understand, i see the health of a town i live half the year in and am going to fight to protect it as best that i can. that means longer seasons, and i'm willing to make some sacrifices (which the charters have been taking with new open areas and later opening dates).

i remember events a little differently, but we have different perspectives. the charters did not want the c-spot opened... but the private interests pushed hard on it (and there are quite a few yelloweye in that open area.)

i did miss one thing on your original post.... i think it's odd to single out one and only one charter as the only one who cares and lets up on the fish. from what i see, when halibut is open... every boat targets halibut... even those associated with RFA.

and to those who are concerned about the sampling program for halibut. please contact the department and let them know, also demand qualified personnel be hired. the new hires last summer did a terrible job (measuring fish wrong, not checking boats, etc.).

chris bellows
http://www.fly-fishing-neahbay.com

How come seasons are so much longer in both Canada and Oregon??

Our WDFW almost never explains their data, and IMHO their main goal is to appear as wise stewards of wildlife to the non-fishing public.

Topwater,
Inside the straight is a totally separate quota and will not reflect on the coastal quota. If memory serves me correctly, it is a pretty big quota. That is why I think it would help take the pressure of Neah Bay. At the rate of the recreational charters sharp increase, this cannot hold up for long. The season in 2000 was 35 days and was a smaller quota. It was 14 days last year and had an added 25% over 2000. I don’t think Neah Bay is going to have a problem filling charters any more. At our PSA meetings, we have about 120 eager people wanting to know where, how, and when on the halibut meetings we have with guest speakers. There are a lot of very interested first timers every year. I think those days are over, worrying about NB losing money, with fishing on the rise. My idea is that if sporties go out and get a few bigger halibut out of the straight, they might not need to go to NB? This could lengthen the season for NB. I think this could be beneficial to other towns on the straight. Sekiu, PA, PT, Sequim, etc. I do care about Neah Bay and the charters. Last year was the first year I missed Neah Bay in many, many years. I spend two weeks a year there the beginning of July. This started out as when the second halibut opener used to be and the opener of King season. I kept this yearly date even though the halibut opener is not there any more. My brother in law flies in every year from Texas and we spend our vacations there. Last year at one of our PSA meetings, a member came up and told us about the Big Salmon incident against the charters. I called Mike from Jambos and Tom Young immediately. We took a vote and the club wanted to boycott Neah Bay to support the charters. Big Salmon was increasing your moorage and getting a cut off of every head that goes on your boat, up front. So we moved to LaPush. My brother-in-law and I spend about $2000+ each going to NB in July. We had about 20-30 people total that went to LaPush instead. This had to be over easily $10,000 that went to LaPush and not Neah Bay. This was wrong for the rest of the community. I do have some Sporty friends out there that were telling about the meeting at Forks. I couldn’t make it and think the meetings should be better advertised. The Jan 6 meeting is not advertised on the commission website.
As for the annual limit, I don’t think this is worth voting on. I only know of a couple of people that might get 5 a year. Possibly the locals? Most go home after a couple of days on the opener. I don’t fish US much any more and when we do we usually limit. A couple of days we go home with a couple of fish each. I like the idea of getting a big halibut off of the Hot Spot and want to see it continue to be open. In 2003 it didn’t produce big fish on the opener worth a darn. One 40 and a 20 for two people on one day. I through back the first 20 wanting bigger. I only saw one guy with any fish of any size. Last year I heard was better.
I would like to see this inside the straights opener revised with some backing of the charters. I personally would fish it and not go to Neah Bay in May. I have been in some of the nastiest storms out at Neah Bay in May and June.

fishinut,

thanks for the thoughtful reply. with the facts i currently have, assuming the inside fishery has zero impact on neah bay quota numbers, i could live with halibut fishing earlier inside. i agree that there are tons of people interested in halibut fishing in washington state, but if the seasons remain short... there will be an impact on the north coastal economies. less than 2 weeks of halibut fishing in may imo just won't cut it for not only private boat anglers but the charters and towns impacted. it seems like the two sides have more in common than not, so hopefully we can find some solutions to what really is a huge problem... too many fishermen and not enough fish.

i hope there is some representation from private boat anglers at the meetings, not because i agree with them on everything, but because in the meetings i have attended... there has been zero debate because one side was missing (private boats... besides dan leinen from the city of forks who represents local forks area private boat fishermen).

i hope you do return to neah bay, but you absolutely did the right thing by boycotting the corrupt rules big salmon and the tribal council tried to hoist upon the charters. your outrage and doing business elsewhere helped change public opinion on the reservation, and the craziness was dropped (for now at least). i truly thank you for that.

i do think if you want the charters support, you need to be willing to give them something in return. an earlier strait opening for a may 1 opener in area 4... or give up the later halibut opener or give up the hot spot. some things to ponder heading into the meeting.

of course, having the north coast of washington lumped with areas further south for halibut management is crazy. la push and neah bay have the best halibut habitat in area 2A and imo the line between 2A and 2B should be moved south of la push (that would solve the problem... but it's just one of those crazy pipe dreams).

the annual limit would have some impact imo. while you and others only come up for a day or two, many others come up for the season. myself, as much as i love halibut, i 'd be happy keeping 5.

chris bellows

Sorry, on line two, I meant recreational boaters, not recreational charters.
Ron

We do. First time out last year, & did not catch anything. Can't wait until this season starts.