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#264390 - 12/23/04 04:39 PM Re: natives vs brats
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13497
FNP,

At this resolution it looks like 1.2 to me as well. I think I can see how you might get a 2.2 out of it, but I'd need a clearer picture before I could make that distinction.

Have fun with this added element to your hobby/obsession of fishing!

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#264391 - 12/23/04 08:22 PM Re: natives vs brats
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
FNP -
The accepted age designation for that chinook scale would be 3.2. That is fish that is 3 years old and migrated from freshwater during its 2nd spring. If it had migrated the year it hatched it would have been a 3.1. I know for those of us used dealing with steelhead it doesn't made sense but there it is.

One thing that I found helps in learning to read scales was to have "known age" samples to look at. I recommend that you pull some scales from the typical Chamber's hatchery 2-salt (means you need to get out and "bonk" a couple in the intrest of science - it would good to practice pulling scales from a dead fish). You will know that there is 1 freshwater check and 1+ salt. The marks we are counting are those places where the growth rings are laid particularly on top of each other (slow growth assocaited with winter). The typical hatchery 2-salt would be a 1.1+ - that is one year in fresh water, one full year in the salt and returning prior to the formation of the 2nd winter check.

Good luck and enjoy!

S malma

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#264392 - 12/23/04 09:03 PM Re: natives vs brats
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12618
Smalma:

OK now you've got me confused???

I thought the convention was "fresh yrs-DOT-salt yrs" for all salmonids. Is the notation for salmon different than steelies?

Correct me now, but if I understand you right the age of a chinook 3.2 would be the same as a steelhead 1.2?

Let's start with a simple fall chinook example. Spawners drop eggs/milt in fall 2004. Fry emerges spring 2005. Smolt heads out to sea spring 2006. Returning adult heads back upriver fall 2008 to spawn.

Scale sample would show initial growth core, one riverine winter check, a first broad ocean growth band, a first ocean winter check, a second even wider ocean growth band, a second ocean winter check, and finally a third ocean growth band.

Based on what I learned in Alaska, this is a 4 year old fish designated as 1.2 age class. One year fresh, 2 years salt, and returning in its 4th year of life to spawn. Based on your convention, what is the proper numeric notation for this virtual chinook? Would fish managers in WA call this a 3-yr old or a 4 yr-old salmon on its upriver journey?
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#264393 - 12/23/04 10:19 PM Re: natives vs brats
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
FNP -
Based on the convention I was using the chinook age should have been a 4.2 - a fish at the end of its 4th with a freshwater history; my bad -sorry.

I have no idea why a different system is used for chinook than steelhead, unless it is because of both zge zero and yearling smolts chinook are typically found (even some older smolts).

Tight lines
S malma

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#264394 - 12/23/04 10:32 PM Re: natives vs brats
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12618
I understand what you mean by zero-fresh... Lichatowich mentioned the Columbia River having "ocean-type" chinook vs "river-type" chinook in his book. The ocean type juveniles migrate out to sea shortly after hatching ("zero" fresh) while the river type spend a year or two (in rare cases more) rearing in freshwater before smolting up.

I understand that hatchery kings raised by WDFW are only held for 4 months before release. Guess that's the hatchery version of ocean-type chinook.

There sure is a wide diversity of juvenile life histories for PNW chinook. Virtually all the Alaska kings spend a full year in the river before heading out to sea.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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