Today was the final day for the hand re-count at it looks Rossi got it by 8 votes ......

• Will Rossi help reform WDFW to help enhance Salmon/Steelhead habitat or will he continue the downward spiral ????
• Help re-form
• OR will it be the final death blow for Salmon/Steelhead recovery

probbly be like our last Gov.. do nothing to help the sports fishing people...

Both Rossi and Gregoire expressed attitudes friendly to sports fishing in this state and either one will be a much better friend to our sport and our fish than Locke ever thought of being. Both of them expressed the opinion that fishing is part of our treasured way of life. Commercial fishermen see sports fishing as a sport like baseball which we can do without easily. They rail at the thought that fishing is a way of life.....Sports fishing that is.

Rossi is a politican. Politicans favor big buisness for the reason of monitary support. Salmon & steelhead are not big buisness. Salmon & steelhead lose. Look at the trend over the last 30 years if you doubt that.

At least both of them took the time to talk to sportsfishing groups.

Dino's background is in commercial real estate. It's like the song goes "pave paradise, put up a parking lot". Don't be surprised.

I'm not too sure about Rossi, but I know that when Chris Gregoire was asked about doing a study to compare the amount of money spent on sportfishing vs. money made commercial fishing, she said we don't need one.

She said we didn't need one because it's obvious...sportfishing is much more important to our economy than is commercial fishing.

Fish on...

Todd

What these politicians need to understand is that fishing and hunting are big business. Been to Forks lately? We need to make sure all politicians realize that sportfishing (and hunting) is more than just a way of life for many families it is also a way of livilehood for many communities.

I would hope that Rossi could make the necessary reforms at WDFW to increase opportunity by protecting the environment and thus the fish stocks. Of course, he will need our help on this!

Well it looks as though it doesnt matter what Dino will or wont do for salmon....

Democrats' Leader Says Gregoire Wins Recount By 8 Votes

December 21, 2004

By KOMO Staff & News Services


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OLYMPIA - The head of the state Democratic Party said late Tuesday that recount results from King County give Democrat Christine Gregoire an eight-vote victory in the closest governor's race in state history.

Neither King County nor the Republican party could confirm the hand recount results on Tuesday night. But if the Democrats' analysis is correct, it's a stunning reversal in the gubernatorial race, which has been hotly contested ever since election day.

Republican Dino Rossi won the first count by 261 votes and won a machine recount by 42 votes, out of 2.9 million ballots cast.

"We're confident Christine Gregoire has been elected the governor of the state of Washington," Democratic Chairman Paul Berendt said. "I believe Dino Rossi should concede."

Berendt and Democratic party officials reached their conclusion after crunching numbers supplied by King County. The county has finished tallying its 900,000 ballots, but election officials said they still need to reconcile differences in the precinct totals.

"We are not releasing our results until tomorrow at 3:30 p.m.," said King County Elections spokeswoman Bobbie Egan, who confirmed that both parties received the recount data Tuesday.

Rossi spokeswoman Mary Lane said Republicans are also looking at the data but had not drawn any conclusions. "It's just too close to call," she said.

The Rossi camp has said that if it lost the third count it might challenge the election in court, and Republicans were already preparing for a possible legal challenge. Gregoire had promised to concede if she lost the recount.

Berendt's contention that the race had been decided came one day before the state Supreme Court was to hear arguments on whether King County - which is solidly Democratic - should be allowed to add to its recount 700-plus ballots that weren't counted originally because of mistakes made by county election workers.

A Pierce County judge on Friday granted the state Republican Party's motion for a temporary restraining order to stop King County from counting those newly discovered ballots. King County, the state Democratic Party and the Secretary of State appealed the case to the state Supreme Court.

Seven justices will hear the case. Three of the regular nine justices are out of town on previously scheduled trips, and one temporary judge will join the court.

About 350 people gathered Tuesday in front of the Supreme Court to show support for Rossi at a rally sponsored by KVI-AM, a conservative talk-radio station.

The crowd chanted "No new votes!" and "No more fraud!" They held signs saying "Welcome to Ukraine" and wore orange, a tribute to the signature color of demonstrators in Ukraine who protested a fraud-marred election there.

Not according to Kiro News Kiro 7 News

And

And again Kiro 7 News

Will Rossi help the fish?
Only if Christine hires him too!

they are gonna have recounts till the salmon come home again. Lets revote and add Edgar to the ballot. He isn't doin anything anymore, then we'll have a clearcut landslide winner!

I'm trying to figure out how Rossi can only gain 7 votes in 2/3 of the state.Then Gregoire can gain what looks like 57 in 1/3 of the state to pull to an 8 vote lead.Thats with out counting the contested ballots.Which would probably make it a wider margin.I think thats what I'm hearing anyhow.

Something smells fishy to me.

This whole election stinks,bad.I'm thinking that revote that was tlaked about would be a good thing.

I hope some lessons are learned here.And that a whole lot of reform is done before the next election.

It looks like no matter who the next Govrnor is,we'll never know who was really elected.

Regardless of who eventually "wins" this election they will be unpopular and virtually powerless. They will have no real mandate to govern by the people and will be basically a figurehead.

wolverine is right on the mark. Regardless of who moves into the Gov's mansion this election will go down in history as an example of why everyone should vote.... because your vote matters, as in every single one.

I agree with many others that political candidates will tell people what they want to hear. For example, I originally voted for Locke beacasue I thought Locke was going to be good for the environment. Wrong.

I think we can only wait and see what happens. All I know is that the Gov does not have much influence on the Fish and Wildlife Commission... outside of making appointments. The legislature can be quite effective manipulating the Department via the old purse strings, however.

Not like I really ~liked~ either one, but I gotta say that CG appears much more sportsfishing-oriented that Real Estate Rossi. And, given what I've read, she's definitely more knowledgable about the issues surrounding our anadromous fish populations.

Sorry Demon - last I heard ol' Chris G is about ready to declare victory. And I doubt the margin will affect her ability in office. That's what people said about Bush in his first term too - not winning the popular vote sure slowed him down, didn't it?

That is if this ~ever~ gets out of court.

My .02,

DS

Let's hope she does something positive with WDFW,but,I will never understand why we continue voting the same people into office that have run this state so poorly in the past.
Things will not change in this state until changes are made at the top. And that doesn't mean voting another D into the governor's office.
We get what we vote for.
Keep raising our taxes, keep growing the size of our government, keep doing less with the increased revenues our state sees, let's just keep on keepin' on.
This is coming from someone who's on the left side of the fence the majority of the time.
I can't wait until '06 when we get the privilege of voting Ron Simms back in

If indeed CG wins, there is a definite mandate. In a strongly Democratic state with a popular Democrat running for the governorship, her poor showing indicates that the bulk of the voters want change in the way the state is run-- otherwise Gregoire would have won by a landslide.

As for a study on the economics of sports fishing-- a state department, I think it was called "Economic Development" or some such thing, did a study that showed the economic benefit of commercial fishing versus sport fishing. The sport caught salmon returned a fantastic figure, something like $4 a pound; whereas commercially caught salmon were worth $.25 a fish.

I remember this from some work I did with Trout Unlimited, but that was 20 years ago, so things are a bit fuzzy on specifics. However, the economic benefits were very definite. Unfortunately, the Department of Fisheries couldn't do much with it because of the legislative mandate they have to promote commercial fishing. If that mandate could be changed to "best benefit of the state", sports fishing would own the resource.

Keith

Not so fast everyone... we ain't got a winner just yet. Here's the TNT's analysis of what is yet to come... it's enough to make your head spin:

According to an analysis by The News Tribune, based on interviews with party and campaign officials and lawyers, here are possible contingencies:

If the court allows the ballots:

• Republicans could appeal the decision to a federal court, possibly the U.S. Supreme Court, alleging that counties’ varying recount procedures violate the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection clause. Or they could file a new case making the same claim. A previous Democratic lawsuit alleged that counties violated the clause by treating certain types of ballots differently.

• Republicans could sue in specific counties, alleging that King County did more to include previously uncounted ballots and ask other counties to do the same. They’ve set the stage for such suits this week, publicizing military families’ claims that soldiers on active duty – who they say would have voted for Rossi – were disenfranchised because they didn’t receive absentee ballots on time.

• Republicans could wait for the state to certify the recount result and then, if Gregoire wins, they could contest the result. Their lawyers say that could be done before the state Supreme Court, though Democrats have said the proper venue is the Legislature, which will be controlled by Democrats in the new year. A Republican lawyer predicted that if one side tries to contest the election, there likely would be a court fight over which is the appropriate venue.

• Republicans say a possible result of contesting the election could be a new election, ordered by the court or the Legislature.

• If Rossi wins after the new ballots are considered, Gregoire campaign spokesman Morton Brilliant says his boss would concede, though Democrats could still contest the results.

If the court blocks the ballots:

• Nick Handy, the Secretary of State’s elections chief who filed a declaration supporting the Democrats’ appeal, said this could cause problems since most of the 38 counties that finished the recount added previously uncounted votes. Republicans dispute that claim.

In order to be consistent, Handy said, the justices should either allow King County to consider new votes or order the other counties to redo their recounts and exclude any previously uncounted votes. That would be tough, he said, since many counties mixed those ballots “into the general ballot pool, which would make it impossible to unscramble that egg.”

• If Gregoire loses, Democrats could sue each county to force them to recount their ballots a third time and exclude previously uncounted votes.

• If Democrats believe the counties didn’t apply consistent standards for considering new votes and Gregoire loses, Democrats could sue in federal court to overturn the election results. They would allege that the counties’ varying standards for considering new ballots violates the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection clause.

• Or they could utilize a vague clause in the Washington Constitution that their lawyers interpret as allowing a candidate or party to contest an election before the Legislature. Under their reading, that would allow the Democrat-controlled Legislature to pick the winner.

Seven justices will hear the case today. Three of the regular nine justices are out of town on previously scheduled trips, and one temporary judge will join the court.

On Tuesday, about 350 people gathered in front of the Supreme Court building to show support for Rossi at a rally sponsored by KVI, a conservative talk-radio station.

Meanwhile, Handy offered up yet another scenario that he acknowledged is unlikely to occur regardless of the result of the Supreme Court case: “We finish the count, both parties live with the result and we move on. That’s the fantasy result,” he said.

I love politics......

EDDDDD-GGGAAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!

Edgar!
Edgar!
Edgar!

I think Wolverine has it nailed.
Development will encroach on more spawning streams and we will be totally hatchery-dependent.
He may take on the natives, though.
Look at what Ahnold is doing in Kallyfornia.
Just a thought.

Wouldn't it be funny if they counted the 751 lost ballots, and found that they gave a majority to Rossi? I wonder if they Rs would still be crying foul?

All this has shown me is that both parties are all too eager to sue whenever thay see an advantage in it for them, and that we need a clear, uniform set of election laws in every county.

Here's the latest headline from the Seattle Times:

Gregoire ahead by 10... margin to widen after counting 700-plus more ballots

Well looks like the left found a way to "make up" enough votes to win...seems to me CG said when Rossi was 42 votes ahead its a tie whats that make 8 votes????? He won twice whats it take? other then the left wingers fabricating votes for them to win.

Vedder- Lets go ahead and count all the armed forces votes before you claim victory or are you gonna protest that because you already " fabricated " enough votes to win? Talk about cryin foul looks to me like the liberals did that after ROSSI won twice!!!!

QUOTE]Vedder- Lets go ahead and count all the armed forces votes before you claim victory or are you gonna protest that because you already " fabricated " enough votes to win? Talk about cryin foul looks to me like the liberals did that after ROSSI won twice!!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]

I agree, lets count all the votes. I think that’s how democracy should work.

If you, or anyone, can show any evidence of anyone fabricating any votes there should be prosecutions and convictions. This should be an easy job, as the names of t all the 751 are posted on the Internet. It should be easy to contact those folks and see if they exist, voted, voted by absentee, etc.

No one has won or lost until the secretary of state certifies an election. The first recount was ordered by the REPUBLICAN secretary of state as required by law. The second was requested and paid for by the democrats. Do you have any doubt that the Rossi camp would have asked for a recount had the total been reversed?

BTW Sam Reed the Sec. of State and a REPUBLICAN has said from the beginning that the misplaced voted must be counted. He has conducted himself admirably during this.

Remember the Rossi counties also added new votes during the recount. Can you honestly say that if you ballot was in a file that got overlooked you would not want it counted?


P.S. I never claimed Chris had won. I'm still waiting for all the votes to be counted. Frankly, I do not see much difference between Rossi and Gregoire. I was on the fence on this one until I heard she knows how to fish with a knuckle buster reel.

I have tried very hard to ask myself how I would feel if I were a Rossi supporter. I think I would feel bitter and angey and I would be looking hard for any signs of fraud. That’s understandable. We need to dramatically improve our election system – that’s for sure.

If C.G. pulls ends up winning this.It doesntcost the Ds a dime.Us citizens get the honor of payimg for it.

Do you really expect c.g. to count the military votes?
C.G. did pay the troops some respect with a moment of silence during her news conference.

WILL SHE BE SILENT WHEN IT COMES TO COUNTING THE TROOPS VOTE?

P.S. THANKS DAVE FOR THE FLOAT FISHING SEMINAR YOU GAVE AT SPORTCO, IT'S BEING VERY PRODUCTIVE WITH THE STEELIES THE LAST WEEK.

NiteFishing;

Thanks for the kind words. I met a guy on the river yesterday who told me a similar thing. I LOVE to hear that.

As foe the election, I think ALL legal votes should be counted and shame on anyone who tries to stop it. I also think that this is now much bigger than Chris and Dino. I believe state and national party bosses are handling this, and I think both sides will always do whatever it takes to win.


I am certain that Rossi would have done exactly the same as Chris did had the circumstances been reversed. Chris did say she would accept whatever the recount said, but she may have known she was going to win it- who knows.) Trying to find the most virtue in a political race is about like, ah well, comparing virtue amongst whores.

At this point I believe Rossi should give up, even though he very likely feels he was cheated. That was what Gore did under very similar circumstances. If this drags on we get a few more weeks or months of a lame duck Locke. No one wants that.

I agree with Dave,
At this point nothing good can happen by dragging this thing out. Just as I thought CG should have conceded after the state mandated recount I now believe Dino should concede. There is no way at this point in time Dino can win without a ton of controversy and lawyer shenanigan. I don't give a damn what the RNC thinks. Conceding now is the right thing to do. For my fellow Republicans who think that CG fought and so should we just listen to yourself and ask who is calling the kettle black. Republicans have often died on the high road and we should do so agian this time. Let the Democrats rejoice in their victory and pat themselves on the back about what a wonderful job King County did handing them the election.

Let me be the first to say Reed in '08. Sam Reed has done a steller job as SecState looking out for the voters first and his party second. As a Republican he will soon be taking a much needed list of election reforms to a Democratic run Congress and a Democratic Governor. I believe the Democrats are very pleased with the status quo of a King County dominated election process. Please remember in eight or 24 years the Republicans may be the one's in power finding the necessary votes to maintain that power on a third recount. Our state elections need fixed now!!!! If these very necessary election reforms are to pass Mr. Reed will need bipartisan support from all of us!!!!

Don't hold your breath though!

CG got more votes when they were all counted like they should have been to start with.

Now that CG is in the lead, what is the hurry to finish the counting? Six weeks for the Dems to find all the votes and now we can't give the Repubs a few more weeks to find some more?

The idea now is to make sure it is all legitimate, right? Since the Dems have had six weeks, I think it is only fair that the Repubs get their chance to dispute.

What's the hurry? We just want to get it right....

ET - As a Gregoire voter (not a partisan), I have no problem with that. Dino, knock yourself out.

Merry Christmas, one and all.

No.

I voted for- the person that I thought would do the right thing for this state, including the fisheries. I don't think party policy has one thing to do with how things work out, but I do think that the person that is Gov has the opportunity to make the right choices in making this a state that others would like to come to and fish in, (ie: spending travel dollars,taxes etc,etc.)
I thought ONCE that Gov Grid-Locke would help the sports fishers out, but I have since been schooled.
A whore is a whore no matter what party they are with.......Lets hope we don't get sold down the river again.....................

My 2 cents on the original question and other issues raised.

We better count our blessings that Dino is the loser--if we hope to continue to restore salmon and not lose funding and legislative support for natural resource agencies.

Rossi almost certainly would have attempted to weaken environmental laws and handcuffed state agencies from doing what is needed to protect fish from development, etc.

Gregoire is much better qualified to do what we need to moderate the impacts of economic development, while empowering state agencies to do their jobs and preserve fish and wildlife for future generations.

The economic study of sport versus commercial fisheries was done by WDF in the early 90's. We don't need another study. WDFW Director Koenings did a great job compiling and presenting the needed data for the legislature to be educated as to the economic values of fish and wildlife in last year's session.

We should support Gregoire as much as possible. She is very smart, and I expect her to look out for our interests.

Yay, go Chris!