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#265643 - 04/02/04 10:18 PM Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
UN: Ethnic Cleansing Sweeps Sudan's Darfur Region
Fri Apr 2, 4:36 PM ET

Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!

By Irwin Arieff

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Arab militias are conducting an organized campaign of ethnic cleansing to drive out black Africans from Sudan's Darfur region and the government is doing little to stop it, the U.N. emergency relief coordinator said on Friday.



"I have no reason to believe that the government is actively planning it, but I have reason to say that little is done to stop it, and therefore it seems as if it is being condoned," Jan Egeland, the world body's humanitarian affairs chief, said after briefing the Security Council.

"Scorched-earth tactics are being employed throughout Darfur, including the deliberate destruction of schools, wells, seed and food supplies, making whole towns and villages uninhabitable," he said, describing an "organized campaign" that has driven hundreds of thousands from their homes and triggered "one of the world's worst humanitarian crises."

Following his briefing, the 15-nation council issued a statement calling on the Sudan government and rebel groups to protect civilians in the northeast African nation, help aid workers gain access to needy regions, agree on a humanitarian cease-fire and "reach a political settlement to the dispute."

Two rebel groups, the Justice and Equality Movement and the Sudan Liberation Movement, launched a revolt in the Darfur region in February of last year, accusing Khartoum of neglecting the poor area bordering Chad and arming Arab militias to loot and burn African villages.

But other parts of the arid nation, Africa's largest in size, have been mired in two decades of civil war, fueled by religion, ethnicity, oil and political ideology.


I'm sure they must have some WMDs somewhere. But if not, we can justify it by saying that the world is now a better place because we spent billions and killed hundreds.
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#265644 - 04/03/04 11:32 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
Dave....I was thinking the other day about the state of civilization around the world and wondered how many centuries would go by with many nations never moving forward....Poverty and ignorance are the rule all over the planet and some of these places seem to remain as they have been for centuries. Most of the problem areas seem to have dictators, mullahs kings sheiks or some other form of despot. Out of control civil wars and such are all over. Primitive violence is the rule in Sudan and Somalia as it is elsewhere.

How do you suppose we , the civilized nations, can really make a difference? The US already gives more money and food to other nations than anyone else on the planet. Graft and greed probably spoil good humanitarian programs like the oil for food program in Irag. Attacking and "liberating" is usually a dubious way to win hearts and minds. Those who hate us will continue to hate us even after we "liberate" them. Maybe they like living like animals>?>??
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#265645 - 04/03/04 11:38 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
ACT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 224
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
I see your quoteing James Baldwin, so I suppose that Scumb Bag Micheal Moore is one of you Hero's also.

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#265646 - 04/03/04 03:12 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
"How do you suppose we , the civilized nations..."

In a nutshell, its statements like this that make America one of the most hated countries in the world.

Our fledgling democratical experiment here in the 'New World' is just getting off its feet. The feudal/warlord system has been around far longer....its merits are debatable but DO seem to have worked for them.

Sudan allowed Osama Bin Laden to build, use, and maintain terrorist training camps. I'm not sure of its form of government but it does look as if it is carrying out crimes against humanity if what dave posted turns out to be true, so...

Call me crazy but I'm thinking Bush is locking down plenty of oil in Iraq, he needn't bother with the 'savages' in Sudan. Now if sand were as valuable as oil....?
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#265647 - 04/03/04 03:44 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 802
Loc: Port Orchard
If I was Bush I would be a little trigger shy after the bashing hes getting for helping out the Iraqis. Why the heck would he want to go into sudan after that? Leftys would just say he was after the diamonds!

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#265648 - 04/03/04 03:58 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
Exactly.

From trigger happy to trigger shy in just over a year.

Amazing what making a horrible decision will do for your perspective, eh?
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"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#265649 - 04/03/04 06:12 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
So H2O..what you seem to be saying is that the feudal systems and dictatorial systems around the world are your ideal model for society? Our system is the bad one? We are hated because we are successful? Systems like those in Somalia, Sudan. Cuba etc are your model? I'm not real surprised but I kind of thought you were smarter than that.
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#265650 - 04/03/04 07:02 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
ACT: If you read my messages often you would know that I change quotes often. I really don't much care about the quotee's phiolosophy as much as I do what the quote says.

I am currently looking for one by Theodore Roosevelt that says something about all politicians should be questioned all the time. Of course, everyone knows he was a pinko commie too.
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#265651 - 04/03/04 11:28 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
Dave ....How about a quote from Isaac Walton?
We need your wisdom in the fishing arena...
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#265652 - 04/03/04 11:49 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
A hippo does not have a sting in its tail, but a wise man would still rather be sat on by a bee.
Polish Proverb
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#265653 - 04/04/04 12:43 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Plunker Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/01/00
Posts: 511
Loc: Skagit Valley
I remember one about walking a mile in someones shoes. :p


Quote:
Dave Vedder Said:
"Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here? I'm sure they must have some WMDs somewhere. But if not, we can justify it by saying that the world is now a better place because we spent billions and killed hundreds."
The drama is killing me Dave. Only your paranoid liberal activist mind could draw a connection between the injustice in Sudan and the multilateral actions our commander-and-chief took to protect our freedom and safety.

I'm sure that if the UN decided to take military action the US would, as usual, bear the majority of the cost in both money and manpower.

Maybe you should go there and help the cause. If you survive you could write an article titled "Fishing in Sudan". Or, is that the correct title for this little example of your continued malice towards our government.

stlhdh2o - If you think deposing a militant dictator who hated the US, sponsored terrorism and murdered and gassed his own countrymen was a bad decision you might want to get together with Vedder on that trip to Sudan so you can see first hand what goes on outside of the haven our government provides us.

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#265654 - 04/04/04 01:14 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
I said the merits of the feudal system are debatable and gave it no more credit than that...

You keep looking at things in terms of good and bad, right or wrong etcetera. Who are we to say we are more 'civilized' than anyone else?...or that our system is better? This was the exact same superior attitude that led to the disgraceful way native americans and were treated in the latter half of the nineteenth century...

Plunker-

"sponsored terrorism "

...do go on...

The Sudanese hate the US, sponsored terrorism and are currently ethnically cleansing a portion of their own society....I do so hate to repeat myself...this makes our proposed war in Sudan different from the one in Iraq how?
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"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#265656 - 04/04/04 04:54 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Pmartin Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 769
Well stlhdh20 I'll say it. We are more civilized and our system is better. Last time I checked the women around here could go to school, could be in public without fear of being beat, raped or killed for no reason. Last time I checked you were free to voice your dissatisfaction about our leadership. The list goes on....

Put down the bong man...Please.

Kkid. I think there are enough targets...
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This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
—Elmer Davis

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#265658 - 04/05/04 12:30 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
I shoould have clarified that I meant humanitarian aid...not military.
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#265659 - 04/05/04 11:09 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Dave,

I sold your Jig fishing book on Ebay and donated the proceeds to President Bush's reelection campaign. Seriously I did.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#265660 - 04/05/04 11:25 AM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
The King: Good for you. I wish more people would get involved in politics. I don't even care if the new purchaser is a right winger. I hope you enjoyed the book, and I hope the new person does too.

You should probably know that my co-author is a lot closer to you than me politically.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#265661 - 04/05/04 12:52 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Originally posted by Pmartin:
Last time I checked the women around here could go to school, could be in public without fear of being beat, raped or killed for no reason.
I understand what you're getting at here, and you're right about women in most of the Arab world. However, the weird irony is that under Saddam's rule women had more rights and freedoms than any other Arab country. Even though he was an oppressive POS and he had his rape chambers and such, women had more rights than in, say, Afganistan or Iran.

But, like you say, women in the ME have nothing compared to what women here have. And for the most part the same holds true for women in Asia, Africa, South America, etc., to some extent.

I think some could argue that European women actually have it better in day to day living, but not in the corporate world. Even with our proverbial glass ceiling, I don't think women can do any better professionally than right here.
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Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#265662 - 04/05/04 07:14 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Clinton lied, but no one died.
WMD = Words of Mass Deception


I guesss 800k dead people in 6 months in Rwanda don't count. Is it because they were black?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#265663 - 04/05/04 08:13 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
Plunker Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/01/00
Posts: 511
Loc: Skagit Valley
Talking about "Words of Mass Deception."

Check this link: * Clinton lied, but no one died? *
_________________________
Why are "wild fish" made of meat?

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#265664 - 04/05/04 09:55 PM Re: Why Doesn't Bush Start Another War here?
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Hey, I'm starting to see a pattern develop here. I see the list getting longer:

Wilson
O'Neil
Foster
Clarke
Dave
GoHarley

Anyway, "Sticks and stones and all that rot."
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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