there is a rift between the old time army and the way rumsfeld wants them to think in the future. So the source is biased. They also think everyone should do 2 years manatory service. When you signing up?

Things were going downhill for this admin and the ball has picked up speed. Don't shoot the messenger.

Yes and there was a group in Calif. a few years ago that was all doom and gloom. They drank purple koolaid and put on thier nikes in hopes that it would make things better.

Dude...you do realize how asinine that sounds, don't you?

This isn't doom and gloom, although I can see how would think it is. What?.....we should be all cheerful and happy, busting out the figurative knee-pads even because our pressie has done such an awesome job?

From where I sit, it doesn't look that way and if you read what I write you are going to hear about it. I've been compared to serial killers, mass murderers and cult leaders/followers here merely for expressing my contrary views. Its the above kind of marginalization and divisiveness that will lose the election for Bush and his supporters, mark my words.

The criticism from within the ranks of the republicans is beginning to get stronger and stronger as well. Although they'd never turn their backs on an incumbent president the calls for rolling heads over bad policy are increasing....

One man's doom and gloom is another man's optimism, apparently.

so H2O...are WE the enemy? Radical Islam is the victim? Besides arguing that everything the current administration is doing is wrong and admitting , if you can, that the previous administration in 8 years did not stop the terrorists from killing us and hating us....what would you advise the US to do if it would listen to you for one day? I promise I won't make fun or flame you....any references to serial killers or cult leaders will not be made. Most of what I hear every day is bashing without an alternate plan.

Secondly, do you think radical Islam is capable of rational thinking?

as it happens I am watching Bruce Almighty as I type this....

If I were in charge we would have 'stayed the course' in Iraq as many credible intelligence sources suggested that the UN sanctions were sufficiently reducing Sadaam's ability to inflict damage outside his own borders. We would have continued to and stepped up our efforts to work from within to further sublimate or eliminate his power.

There would have been no Abu Graib as a result.

All prisoners taken in Afghanistan would have recieved POW status at the very least. We are supposed to be setting an example, aren't we?

I would have then began spending what we didn't spend on fighting Iraq , on strengthening national security. several hundred billion could go a long way towards strengthening the security of our ports and borders for example....no?

I fail to see how NOT fighting a war in Iraq equates to hiding your head in a hole.

Failing to listen tio those within your own administration who disagree with you, now that's hiding your head in a hole.

oh...and btw...

radicalism and rationalism are mutually exclusive.

Take radical christians for example.......

Isn't it amazing the effect ultra-right wing talk radio has on impressionable minds?
You right-wingers parrot each other and you can almost bet you all listen to the same right-wing windbags.
Think for yourselves guys! It's okay to have conservative views but for God sake come by them yourselves!
Quit letting some washed up, high on prescription meds former baseball announcer do your thinking for you.
Face up to the facts! Bush, like his father before him, is a failure!
Public opinion has turned against him and his ill conceived war and it's too far down the road to blame Bill Clinton anymore.
We were supposed to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? We'll those pictures sure didn't help did they?
I'm sure some of you will complain that the liberal media shouldn't have ever released those photos.
Actaully I'm kind of sad for you right-wingers. Your boy is losing grip on reality and his "Holy War" has turned to s**t. His defense secretary is waiting to have his head handed to him and the economy is in the toilet.
So go fill up your gas guzzling SUV's at $2.25 a gallon and think about what could have been.
Peace

Stew you are from Oregon so we will assume your meds ran out.

The left wing spokesman Ted Kennedy said that the torture chambers of Saddam where closed and that they are now open under new management the US Armed forces. Wow! Teddy compares the US Armed forces to Saddam. I dobt he would have the sack to say it in front of a few service men in Iraq.

And the left claims moral victory. How far out of touch can you possibly get. Well Stew and Ted have shown us.

Actually, what Kennedy said was, "... we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management, U.S. management." Nothing about US Armed Forces, and nothing untrue. The prison is under US management, and the various forms of systemic torture have been corroborated by the pictures, the videos, the American Red Cross, Amnesty International, and a distinguished US Army Major General to name a few.

And as far as having the "sack," he did say it before the entire world. Does Bush have the "sack" to admit any mistakes?

GH,

US govt ? and I thought it was the postal service not the armed forces. Teddy said it to reporters with Cameras not to the faces of anyone of merit. To defend his staements is telling. Torture is more than an extreme depiction of what happened. If it was torture I know a couple of hundred fraternity bros thatgwere tortured and suffered, what did Katy Kouric call it" horrific abuse" Horrific abuse is listening to libs talk.

Figures you'd confuse it all with 1000 shades of grey.

King,

As fun and entertaining as the reparte' on this board can be... sometimes I have a hard time understanding what it is you're trying to say?

The only thing I know FOR SURE is that you seem to hate EVERYTHING liberal.

...and unable to admit when you've misquoted someone as well.

4salt,

Thats a new tactic,Not. Pretend you don't know what someones saying when you do not agree. :-)

I am saying clearly that Teddy and the rest of you libs compared the US Army therefore the US to Saddam. And it was done for political gain. Treason it is and always will be.


H20,

Show me where I misquoted someone? Or do you need to learn to read?

I don't think that's entirely true. He doesn't seem to even like things moderate, which to the neocons has become liberal.

Well i like liberals as the term was defined in days past. Now liberals are republicans and the democratic liberals are really socialist by definintion

I have a special distaste for PNW liberals(socialists) because I find them to be the most virulent form and the most Anti-American.

Most Americans are liberals of the old definintion not the socilists of the new defininition they have just not divirced themselves of the socialist scum running the party of their grandparents

"Ted Kennedy said that the torture chambers of Saddam where closed and that they are now open under new management the US Armed forces."

v.

""... we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management, U.S. management."

The distinction may appear to be semantic but I believe it is important. Senator Kennedy places the prison in the hands of the US, after all it is our policy and the military acts at our behest.

While the actions were committed by soldiers the policy was created outside the military by our president and his appointees therefore we all bear partial responsibility for the actions of those soldiers having elected him.

If you didn't misquote Senator Kennedy you certainly mischaracterized his statement.

Funny how no one wants to bust out the thirty thousand view when it comes to taking responsibility for our actions.....

H20,

Come on H20 admit it . I did not mis quote Teddy . I never quoted him. I did interpret his comments however. His comments compared the US Military to Saddam
in every way shape and form. To say they did not is a lie.