I enjoy reading these political threads. I get to read vastly differing opinions on politics which I enjoy. One of the problems I have is, when I encounter an opinion completely contrary to my own I want to know more about it. Unfortunately, these posts degrade so fast you can't ask a question or prompt further discussion without it being perceived as an attack.

interesting quotes:

"Too bad you aren't among the dead."

I hope I read that out of context, don't know what other context to put it in though? To be honest with you AuntyM I enjoy and agree with a lot of the stuff you post but DAMN!!!!!

You seem to express yourself more clearly on fishing issues and are well informed. That is not to call you uninformed here but obviously more emotional.

"These people living in the 6th century will kill you no matter what you do...they are bent on one path....Not exclusive to Bush or anyone else. The simplistic blame game going on here is sickening. Know your real enemy."

Man the generalisations just kill me. I'm afraid I don't know my real enemy. I know who my government says is the enemy. Why blanket all muslims with one brush? Do you know any Muslims? I do and they aren't trying to blow anything up! They want to live in peace just like me. Maybe I should start peering in my neighbors windows just in case...

"I find it almost universal the more someone is against this president the more they have against Christians."

Universal? That is as far from my reality as you can get. I happen to know lots of people who are against bush adamantly and have nothing against "Christians". I happen to have a religious background but I am not religious. Does it mean to be against "christians" is to not want religion to be part of your government or not like the pres? If that's the case then maybe I am against "christians" but I certainly am not advocating an ammendment stating all americans should NOT believe in God. Nor do I come to your door and try and convert you to not believing in God/Christ.

If you want to know, I happen to think there are more things to concern myself about then such things as:

Bishop: Bar communion for abortion-rights voters
CNN

All religions get caught up in this type of drivel that detracts from what is really important. Being a good person is what I believe is paramount in all religions and I feel only one person needs to be satisfied with that... myself. I will face God willing if I believe I was a good person. Passing judgement on others for one reason or another is pointless.

BTW- I would post links to some sites I have referenced in this post and others but I don't know if it is cool in these forums to do so? A little help from someone!

H20

How do you comb your hair? Or do you even bother? Do scissors scare you? Your fish pictures are always hilarious.

I always post a link to my references when I have them. I haven't gotten any flak from the mods for doing so, so I guess it's alright.

I read that story from Colorado Springs about the Catholic church and supporting certain candidates. Absolutely bizarre. I'm Catholic myself and find that very disturbing.

I was under the impression judgement would come from God!?

Yeah, go figure. I can't shake this vision of the Middle Ages with some Bishop standing behind Bush, whispering in his ear during a State of the Union Address.

"All religions get caught up in this type of drivel that detracts from what is really important. Being a good person is what I believe is paramount in all religions and I feel only one person needs to be satisfied with that... myself. I will face God willing if I believe I was a good person. Passing judgement on others for one reason or another is pointless."

I don't expect many to understand this but here it goes.
At least as far as christianity goes being a "good person" for one is completely impossible through any human effots and secondly is totally irrelevant. How you have lived your life has no bearing on your standing with God. The Bible teaches that man has relationship with God by grace alone. We have faith in going to heavan based on grace through faith and nothing else and i mean absolutely nothing else. According to the bible no amount of good living, good deeds or good charecter will get you into heaven. I can't speak for other religions but christianity is not based on trying to be a good person.
Also the bible is very clear that it doesn't matter what any particular person feels is right or important. When you develop your own idea of what God should be like, the bible calls that Idolatry. Thats when we make God in our image instead of us being made in His. anyway thats probably not the dicsiccion you wanted to have so i'll stop there.

"I can't speak for other religions but christianity is not based on trying to be a good person."

Why the Ten Commandments then? Why all the parables about how to live your life?

Truthfully, I can accept everything you said RA3 as an interpretation of the Bible. Based on that interpretation what image of God are we supposed to have? The one the Bible tells us to have? I thought the Bible is the word of God through Men? If Men are inherently flawed, shouldn't there be flaws in the Bible?

I know it probably comes across as heresy and I am doomed to eternal damnation but they are legitimate questions that make logical sense to me.

Religion is as dangerous a topic to get started on as any on this board. I tread delicately...

Just to clarify, my intention on this post is to start intelligent dialogue wihtout a flame fest so any direction it goes in is cool with me.

AM,

Horse hockey and a cowardly retreat and slander by you again. I would never remove a post so the challenge is up prove your statement or apologise! I await your apology

AM,

You are a liar and a coward.

Spew: 1) To send or force out in or as if in a stream; eject forcefully or in large amounts 2) To vomit or otherwise cast out through the mouth

MoH:AA, ****heads, and You
3.25.2002 -- Posted by Safety Monkey
It's no secret that I'm a misanthrope; I've said on many occasions that I believe every single human should be shot, including myself. Humans are miserable & smelly, and I find being around them to be wholly unpleasant, nine times out of ten. What's worse, their constant *****ing and moaning ruins virtually every game I play. And I just... can't.... take... it... anymore! Now, this is nothing new, and we've certainly covered the issue before, but my irritation with humans who can't resist the primal urge to open their goddamn mouths has once again pushed me one step closer to the edge, and you might say I'm about to break.

AM,

In your cowardly fashion you have taken a statement by example out of context to use for your own twisted end. If I wanted to challenge you I would go down south of Tacoma and recruit some 500lb female trailer trash and send her out to Harstine Island for a cage match. That would be a fair fight.

You are a liar and a coward.

First, RA3 was exactly right on the money in describing Christianity. Being good is arbitrary. I'm sure the guys sawing off nick berg's head felt they were doing 'good' according to their religious beliefs. "Good" isn't up for us to decide...

The Bible does give some rules, parameters, laws, etc that are either commandments or guidlines for how we should live our lives. To the casual observer, and even to some long time Christians, understanding the difference between what is "law" and what is a "guidline" and what is purely Old Testement tradition\law fullfilled by Christ can be hard to grasp. For example, the OT talks about 'laws' regarding what is and what isn't accpetable to eat. After Christ, those laws have been fullfilled by him and we as Christians have been freed under a new 'coventant'.

The Bible is what God intended us to use. Flawed men wrote it, but with divine intervention (God inspired). Translations become a little tricky, but that's why Christians should seek to truely study the Bible and look at various translations, including those that are as close to the original texts as they can. Various other resources are available that help explain historical and cultural contexts. While even a young child can be 'saved' and be a Christian, it is not simply a religion for the stupid or ignorant. It is truely a fascinating journey as you study, pray, and research and watch your faith mature. You never have all the answers, but the more you dig, the more you shape and grasp the nature of God and His will for your life.

I agree. Asking questions must come before you can hope to understand.

So answer me this PP: What if I'm Jewish? Would that mean that I'm NOT freed under the new 'Covenant'? Does it mean that there is no salvation for me since I don't embrace Jesus Christ as the son of God?

Christians have their beliefs and doctrines...so do Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims etc...

Is every other religion truly misguided? Are Christians truly the ONLY ones who will attain heaven? If your answer is yes to these questions, then why?

All those religions have their own ideas about most everything....best not to even try to debate religion.

I know I pointed out some undisputable facts about the Islamic "faith" and now I am a skinhead white supremacists who hates everybody.....geez....

4Salt I don't care what religion you call your own or whether you are devoid of religion but as long as your practice doesn't threaten my life or the lives of my family and friends then go for it.

When ones religion says that I must be killed unless I submit to it then I have a big problem with it...if that makes me a bigot then I guess I am one.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

There are many other places in the Bible that explain this as well. For example:

"You should have no other gods before me"

"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

"to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth"

As a Christian, it is clear from the Bible that our job is not to judge and condemn, that is up to God. Our job is to spread the good news. Their job is to accept or reject that good news.

It is clear that those who reject the Gospel will be subject to God's judment.
For those who have yet to hear the Gospel, it is unclear to me what happens to them. Clearly they haven't rejected the Word of God. This is why most Christian's believe babies, young children, and those with mental disabilties are probably saved or avoid judgement - because they haven't\can't be given the chance to choose. So to the question of 'what if...' - well that's up to God and the individual. But He makes it clear that my job is to spread the Gospel as the way for Salvation. Once you have the Truth, your free will kicks in and you choose or lose

so that means that harley,4salt stlhead,h2o,auntym are all going straight to HELL......

First,
... and then,

So I'll see ya down there, G.

Christianity is unique among the world's religions in many ways. Obviously the points are mostly faith based and could be debated, but that's the nature of faith...

For one, Jesus is the only one to have PERSONALLY claimed divinity.

Jesus is the only one to have died and then have been physically resurected before ascending to heaven.

Christianity is about God reaching\seeking out to fallen man. Other religions are about fallen men trying to reach\seek out God.

Here is a little more high level info on other world religions to help contrast the differences:
Generally Buddhism does not believe in a personal God or a divine being, it does not have worship, praying to, or praising of a divine being (although some sects do.) It offers no form of redemption, forgiveness, no heavenly hope, or a final judgment to those practicing its system. Buddhism is a moral philosophy, an ethical way to live for the here and now of this world to gain the ultimate state. It has more in common with humanism and atheism than its original religion Hinduism it separated from. But Buddhism is not atheism just because they don’t believe in a personal God. It is more like pantheism, there is a impersonal force the void which is the ultimate.

For Judaism, Christians beleive Christ is the messiah as fortold in the OT. Christianity is the fullfillment of God's plan as outlined in the OT. Jews today are still waiting for their messiah since the religious leaders in the time of Christ felt their power and prestige threatened...
More on how Christ fullfilled the OT:http://www.letusreason.org/Juda2.htm

.... I could go on, but just wanted to get the main ideas accross...

Looks like I'll be needing a new smoking jacket.....

Better go with a tight wool weave or maybe even asbestos.

LOL

We'll finally be able to debate face to face...whooopppeeee....

Look everyone found something in common

When we get there will all the fish be poached?

Even worse, most likely it will be a bank full of snaggers with Tuna Rods every where we try to go

walking in hot Samish mud

I thought having to put up with right wing wackos was hell. It get's worse?

stlhead.....I think the devil would turn you away at the flaming gates.....afterall the devil MUST be a conservative....

when the anti-christ returns he will appear as a wolf in sheeps clothing.

he will indeed appear to be one of the flock, unveiling his true colors so subtly his acension to power will not be contested.

Hell, on earth.

Say it's not you H2O......

I think he's returned. We'll know for sure if he is re-elected after all this BS.

LOL... I know you aren't being serious, but here's my thoughts on this...

The anti-Christ will unite the world under a global economy (can you say 'Euro' for everyone?), a global religion of 'tolerance' (get rid of all those 'intollerant'\'fundamentalist' Christians first), and a global government (the UN? Probably not, but you get the idea). And so on...

GW would have to start doing some serious Kerry-like flip flopping and back peddling if he's the 'anti-christ' and will acheive these steps. Actually I think GW is helping pave the way (not intentionally). He's too extreme and takes stands in oppostion to those I've listed above. Many in the US and around the World feel threatened by his actions and convictions. The backlash and hatred for this administration, and conservatives, and fundamental Christians (and fundamentals of other religions) will help unite and draw together those in the US and around the World who will help put the anti-Christ in power.

I know, you are chuckling that someone can actually take this kind of stuff even a little seriously. That's fine. I just find it fascinating as I study history and watch current events and see these things unfolding...

PP...scary line of thinking....

I get to play Fox News for a Fair and Balanced look.

The anti-Christ will unite the world under a global economy (can you say "U.S. Dollar" for everyone?), a global religion of 'tolerance' (get rid of all those 'radical'\'fundamentalist' Muslims first), and a global government ("It's our duty to instill "freedom" and democracy throughout the world patterned after the US Constitution"). And so on...

Maybe, just maybe, the anti-christ isn't "a person," but rather an entity... a nation...

So Harley....Let me get this straight....America is the anti-Christ?

Probably not, but it is just a plausible.

No America just plays one on TV in other countries.
I have heard that FOX news is a tool of Satan though but I can't verify that.