When I was reading one of grandpa's posts, a lightbulb in my head went off...........it's not a bright one, mind you, but off it went.

It got me thinking about why we are so quick to disregard the fact that maybe someone sees things differently than we do simply because they are looking at it from a different perspective. I mean, I see very little in the world as black & white.

For instance......from where I'm standing, the wolrd isn't spinning at all.....yet, I know it is. Look at it from a statiomary point in space, and clearly it spins. But standing on the surface of it, it doesn't look like it spins. Standing on the ground, you could say "The sky is up, and the ground is down." But that's not how a bird would see it......although it might not tell you.

See where I'm coming from?

I think the world would be a whole lot better place if we just stopped for a minute and thought about the fact that not everybody sees things the way you or I might just because they're sseing things from a different angle. It's not right/wrong good/bad yours/mine reasonable/unreasonable all the time.

Anyway, not to send your head spinning or anything. Just a little something you keep your minds working.

Dan! You keep up that nonsense and you're going to take all the fun out of this.

Go to your room, mister!

....yeah but what about geosynchronous orbit, smart guy?

<------------------------ It's definitely about perspective!

Another metaphore...

Two guys are watching a mariners game.

One guy is behind home plate. the other guy is along the first base line..

The guy behind the plate sees a pitch that is squarely over the plate for a strike

The guy on the second base side from his vantage point clearly sees that the ball is way low and obviously a ball..

Where is see things from is as a third baseman playing his heart out even though the game has been fixed and no matter how hard i play the other team will win..
Why do i see things that way?? because the conservation of wild fish is all I care about on this planet and thats the way it's always gone. Wild fish lose every single time because the game is fixed. sam goes for every enviromental issue. These games seem slightly more stacked against fish when there is a republican in the white house.
Maybe i am too blunt now but i am tired of BS and just call them like i see them from my seat out on third base..

by the way my comment about republicans wasn't a slam on replublicans, just a small observation. Frankly I view the entire political system with contempt..

Dan S. is 100% right the world isn't black and white.. it's just black.

Dan...good points....AuntyM....bad point

Some think they are so right that to disagree with them means you are insane I guess. That blinds a person to the other persons real opinions and turn into hate.

Everything comes down to either black or white once all the facts are known.
We use shades of gray to justify our actions,feelings or lack of knowledge etc.

Black and white holds people accountable ,gray gives them wiggle room.

I think we need wiggle room many times.

But the need for wiggle room does not mean that things are not black and white? We create gray for comfort or understanding and a whole host of other reasons.

Dan - you are right of course. Even as a fanatical fundamentalist Jesus freak Christian wacko, I don't see everything in black and white.

What's really interesting is that I do believe there is an absolute black and white - it's just hard to sort out many times. And what seems to be abolute black to one may be thought as absolute white to another.

I appreciate this topic because it reminds all of us that sometimes we need to step back and think about what we believe and why. We may not change our minds, but hopefully we can appreciate and respect that others have strong feelings that differ from ours and we need not get so personal and angry.

Of course since I'm always right, there's no need to agree or disagree with my comments above. LOL

Dan,

I agree. The world is not as simple as black and white. If it were, (to carry this metaphor) the world would be devoid of any of the infinite number of other colors. When I was young, the world was a simpler place, and I saw things mostly as black and white. As I matured, and began to understand just a few of the complexities of life on this planet, the amount of grey increased significantly. Now, the older I get, and the more information I receive and analyze, the more convinced I am that black and white are the exceptions, and that grey, standing in for the infinite palate of colors, encompass the preponderance of the complexity of life, whether it’s biology, ecology, geology - or socially, like politics, faith, and the related subjects that draw out the coarsest behavior of the participants on this bulletin board.

TK,

I disagree with you. I think it is simple-minded to believe this incredibly complex world is a simple as black and white. Particularly when ALL the facts, not just the preferred and selected facts, are known, the world, or a particular issue is generally anything but black and white. If significant issues like this war, and terrorism, are really so black and white, I would have to conclude that intelligent people would not disagree. Given the same facts - and the world being so black and white - then intelligent people would arrive at the same conclusion. While I at times do question the intelligence of some people who disagree with me, my more objective self knows full well that many people whose intelligence I must and do respect, find compelling and persuasive reasons to support conclusions opposed to mine. I submit that could not happen if the world was as simple as black and white, with all relevant facts known or not.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

You are leaving out a lot of variables that make things grey for people. War by itself is wrong. All would agree that war for no reason is wrong. But when you throw in claims of land or religion etc. it can be justified by different people for a whole host of reasons. We create the Gray to meet our needs.

The two sides in this current conflict are both equally valid in their claims. Radical islam has a right to reclaim what they think was theirs. We have a right not to be attacked for what we see as no reason and therefore defend ourselves even preemptively. It just depends what side you want to be on when the dust settles. Some want the US view to win, some want the Islamic view to win. Some just hate fighting and would like to see something in the middle. No different than what we see in our daily lives except people get killed.

Some will say the war is wrong because of death. Then they have to say death is wrong wherever it is preventable not just in war. That being said walking and not driving cars would have saved 43K American lives last year alone. Really more when you consider the health benefits of walking. So we create a gray area that allows a certain number of acceptable deaths for our personal freedom.
So we then have an artifical reality that says preventable death is always wrong unless it interferes with our personal freedom. That is the basis for the difference of opinion re the war in Iraq.

"Everything comes down to either black or white once all the facts are known."

THE problem with this war is the facts weren't known, still aren't and probably never will be fully known. Where are the facts? Unless you are given facts, and I'm not talking about conjectures, that justify going to war then the black and white decision is clear....no war. Bring something solid to the table if you want us to attack another country.

TK aka Elvis,

Uh, no, I’m not leaving out the variables. I’m including all the variables, hence the multitude of greys and other colors that make these complex issues. We don’t create the grey; it’s already there. The difference is that some can see that grey exists and acknowledge it. Some can’t see the grey, and deny that it exists, and for them the world remains a simple black and white.

Regarding war, it’s neither right nor wrong, just nor unjust, in my opinion. War just is or is not. It’s a choice that is deliberately made. No decision-maker ever went to war not believing his action wasn’t justified. However, the hind-sight of history has judged some wars as not justified, and just as many, or more, remain forever in dispute as to their justness. Perception is the bedrock for attributes such as right and wrong, just and unjust. Agreement occurs where the perceivers share the same yardstick, i.e. values.

There is nothing artificial about this reality. You’ve diverged from the subject when you wander from black/white/grey to war to death to driving to walking without reconnecting to the topic. I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing at this point.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

The variables are the grey and we each bring our own variables and perspective to every thing. War could not exisit with out these variables how could it? There is no war where ther are no humans. Other life does not go war it was created by man. War is about the individual perspective of right and wrong and there cannot exist on its own.

King

The world is not black and white.

You are taking the same approach to things as those clueless folks on the school boards with their zero tolerance rules.

A toy GI Joe gun is not a gun, it's a gray area.

LT,

What is grey about it? Take a toy gun to school and you get suspended. No one said it had to be a real gun.

Laws in and of themselves are not about right or wrong they are about the application of the legal process. It's why some killers go free and others die. people for some reason think laws are about right and wrong.

A toy gun is not a Gun at all, it's a toy by my definition and hence there is a gray area.

People who like things to be black and white are generally afraid to think for themselves IMHO. Life is too complex with too many variables to be laid out with black and white rules.

I agree that laws are not about what is right or wrong but what society will accept at that given point in history. Laws change from time to time on what we as a society deem acceptable or not acceptable. These laws change because of the gray area changes.

LT,

No the rules in our school specifically state any weapon or facsimile of a weapon are prohibited. Nothing grey about it. The admin does not want to have to guess which is which real or fake. it's real black and white.

You can choose to follow it or not have your kids attend schools with such rules of fight it in court.

I do not agree with it either but I see why they do it.

Black and white has less to do with choice and more to do with what is or is not. I cannot choose anything but life or death for example ,there is no in between physically. Thermodynamic laws on heat transfer are absolute. Day care is a very poor substitution for parents and on and on.