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#267129 - 05/19/04 05:42 PM Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Kerry wants to release and or stop filling the national oil reserves to ease prices. He consulted his top advisor Spongebob Squarepants before making the announcement today.

Tomorrow he will consult the Amazing Kreskin at the local waffle house as he tries to explain his decison on this matter and attempts to make it seem that he meant something else.
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#267130 - 05/19/04 06:02 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
4Salt Offline
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Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
King,

If you would be so kind as to let me offer you a bit of friendly advice:

Don't quit your day job. You are almost as inept at humor as you are at recalling historical facts, composing cogent, intelligible posts, or hell... making ANY sense at all for that matter! ;\)
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#267131 - 05/20/04 10:52 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Salt,

What is really not funny is you guys pushing such an idiot.
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#267132 - 05/20/04 11:50 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
I don't know...looking at the Bush followers here sure makes Kerry, or anybody else, look pretty good.

By the way, dipping into the reserves has been done before under several presidencies and dropped the price of gas dramatically the same week the dipping started. I remember when Clinton did it and Bush was furious. Oil buddies weren't profiting as much. You do understand that it's our oil don't you? So what situation do you keep reserves for if not this? We have war and high prices (gouging). The two combo's normally given as justification to keep reserves.
_________________________
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#267133 - 05/20/04 12:05 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

Back up you Oil profit claims with some facts please. The cost has risen with the price. The oil companies are trying to secure more soucres un case the Mideast heats up. refineries are old and fixed in production ammounts due to environmental regulation.

Typical Americans want evrything cheap and now with out regard to reality. Whats Kerrys paln. Drain the reserves and allow opec, the Russians and S. America to dictate pricies.
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#267135 - 05/20/04 12:23 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
How about you do your own search and refute it? I'll start you out:

http://biz.yahoo.com/fool/040519/1085000520_2.html

Stock symbols to begin with: XOM, BP, CVX.
Sure don't see revenue or share prices declining do you?
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267136 - 05/20/04 12:24 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Dang AM beat me to it.

TK you really need to crawl out from under that rock and open your eyes.
_________________________
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#267137 - 05/20/04 12:25 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Am,

Show us the P&L's please ,on a 5 year over year comparison. We will need to see the recaptures and investments in new production to be fair. and We all know how stock prices reflect profit dollar for dollar,NOT!. Nice switch to the victim role BTW.
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#267138 - 05/20/04 12:28 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

Show us some of your financial prowess,please. What good is revenue with out the expense lines and forecast for future expenses vs. earnings?
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#267140 - 05/20/04 12:41 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
TK, it's all there for your browsing leasure. It's one of those rare industries where if you have a production problem, a fake refinery shutdown, you actually make more money. Do your homework.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267141 - 05/20/04 12:54 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

I am no the one claiming and industry is involved in a scheme and that a president is allowing the Oil industry to rape the people. So the ones making the accusations have to prove it. You cannot and you do not know where to start do you? Maybe you could find something in google to post but you would not know what it meant. it's easier to lie as is your character to make a point in calling the other guy a liar rather than to post subsantive un biased proof.

Stlhd,

Now it's a scheme and a conspiracy in a long list of them the past 4 years. Do you also think the oil companies paid OPEC to raise prices? Admit it you read something and have never looked at the financials of any oil company? You do not even have a clue how either side of a balance sheet works do you?
You are just a simpleton being manipulated and you do not even know how to educate your way out of it and form an educated opinion of your own. Everything is a conspiracy the less education one has.
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#267142 - 05/20/04 01:01 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
TK, you sure like to put words into peoples mouths. FYI, one of my degrees is in Finance.
OPEC does not set prices they manipulate supply which is further manipulated here in the US. So, you prove to me that rising oil prices don't benefit oil companies. Bush has been filling up the oil reserves at these sky high prices using your tax dollar. Not getting much bang for your buck are you? Plus he refuses to release reserves in order to pump up supply and reduce prices. What don't you understand about that?
_________________________
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#267144 - 05/20/04 01:13 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Here's the potential real downside from Forbes magazine. Can we stand a further economic down turn?

"But these higher prices benefit producers such as OPEC nations and oil companies. Profits of major oil concerns like Exxon Mobil (nyse: XOM - news - people ), ChevronTexaco (nyse: CVX - news - people ) and BP (nyse: BP - news - people ) are up sharply in the past year, as are their share prices, which hit recent bottoms right at the start of the Iraq war, though that may be a coincidence.

The fortunes of oil services companies like Schlumberger (nyse: SLB - news - people ) and Halliburton (nyse: HAL - news - people ) have turned even more sharply. Schlumberger's share price is up by 48% since the start of the war; Halliburton's is up 42%, though it is still well below where it was at the time Dick Cheney, the company's former chief executive, became vice president of the United States. Wall Street is bullish for continued gains as Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley and Lehman Brothers have all in the past year upgraded their ratings for Halliburton shares.

The bad news is higher energy prices have often been harbingers of recessions. Oil and energy prices rose sharply in 1981, 1990 and 2000, and each time an economic downturn followed in their wake."
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#267145 - 05/20/04 01:20 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,
"You have already made threats to me"

You remain a Liar coward

"you will not be getting ahold of ANY financial records of mine. "

Never asked for them. I asked Stlhd to show the financials of the oil companies to prove his assertions and you butted in. So I asked you to do the same. So unless you are an oil company I did not ask for your financials. Learn to read before you make baseless accusations and then be prepared to back up your lies.

Stlhd,

Share prices are not financials and do not directly translate into profit and loss. Do the work youmight learn something before you accuse aomeone of something you do not even have the hint of a clue on.
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#267147 - 05/20/04 01:42 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
How's the air up there in "Fall City"?

For a guy that deletes his posts and denies it you sure are quick to call other people liars.
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#267148 - 05/20/04 01:43 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

Whats the matter you cannot take what you dish out? Another liberal trait. When will you apologize for the slander you posted about me ?
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#267149 - 05/20/04 01:47 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
H20,

I have never deleted a post and I beleive if I did it would show as revised? Let me know what you think I have deleted and I will retype it. I have no Idea how to delete a post or if you even can. Please back up your assertions.
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#267151 - 05/20/04 01:55 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

"If" "would" are a long strech for "Can" and "Will" or did you miss that day in 3rd grade english because you had to staple a new cardboard skirt around the singlewide?
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#267153 - 05/20/04 02:05 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
I've provided the ticker symbols and the financials are there for all the world to see. It's not open to interpretaion. Everyone, except you I guess, knows that rising oil prices benefit oil companies.
I have made no accusation that I am aware of but I will make one I deem to be completely true. You, TK, for the most part post complete crap about things you know absolutely nothing about. When called on your BS you spin like there's no tomorrow and try to worm your way out of it, or attempt to deflect the argument you attempted to make into something completely irrelevant or you ask someone to try to disprove your complete baseless factless crap. Now there's an accusation which I obsolutely believe to be 100% truth. But you are welcome to prove me wrong with facts.
_________________________
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#267154 - 05/20/04 02:10 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Any bet's as to a response?

Is it:

A) "No that's what you are Stlhead"
B) "See you can't spell you are stupid" or something similar.
C) "Prove to me my posts are baseless and factless"
D) A whole bunch of insults in return.
E) something about Liberals.
F) all of the above.
_________________________
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#267155 - 05/20/04 02:26 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
My money says his response will have something to do with the conflict between Isaac and Ishmael 4000 years ago when Christianity and Islam were founded.

Then it will morph to all fault lying with the Soviet Union who were seeking to build deep water ports on the rugged granite shoreline of the Gulf of Thailand, assisted of course by the Khmer Rouge.

And finally... Yes! It will also be the fault of the liberal media... \:D \:D
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#267156 - 05/20/04 02:29 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

"I have made no accusation that I am aware of" "We have war and high prices (gouging). "

So gouging is not an accusation? is it a compliment.

From several investment news letters I get a few facts.

Oil companies have avg. 7.3 cents a gallon profit or 4.2% of revenues adjusted since 1997. Projections are the same for 2004.

By comparison Walmart and Microsoft average nearly 3 times the dollar for dollar profit as oil companies.

So does the president and his family have connections to Microsoft and Walmart? are they gouging you with high prices? or is does a lmisinformation benefit your postion on this admin?
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#267157 - 05/20/04 02:31 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
salt,

I notice you have stopped debating the issues and just play dog pile. Is your google broken?
Overwhelm us with your knowledge on the issues please.
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#267158 - 05/20/04 02:33 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Bring it on libs ! B ring it on!
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#267159 - 05/20/04 02:44 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
I know what I read elvis....and you know what you wrote.

That's enough for me and (I'm guessing) every single other person that reads this forum regularly, left or right.



Apparently its not safe to drink the water in Fall City.
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#267161 - 05/20/04 02:45 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
1997? Hmmm, I wonder why that year was picked? Was 1996 a really good year that would skew the point you are trying to make? Or was 1997 such a bad year that it drags your numbers down? Try re-working your numbers for the last two years only. And use barrels of oil not gallons of gas. More spin. And, here's a typical TK response....you prove that my "gouging" comment is wrong. Haven't so far. I stand by it.
Tell us all why Bush is holding onto the oil reserves at such a time which we keep reserves for. Is it for some future crisis? In case things get even worse? Share your vast industry and financial knowledge with us oh wise mis-guided one.
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#267162 - 05/20/04 02:52 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
AM...I didn't particularly like or dislike Hilary Clinton but my impression was that she was intelligent and aggressive. I think that's why so many righties hated her so much. An intelligent aggressive woman is very intimidating to them.
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#267164 - 05/20/04 03:04 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

Anyone above the 3rd grade that reads that quote can clearly see no threat just an analogy. Regardless in my next post I apologized to you if it was taken at a threat.
Why do you bring H20 into this/ Is it to stir up trouble or does it make you feel that it would make your positon more valid? Why not stand on your own two feet on the issues or is it more comfortable for you in the mud? I grew up in too tough a neighbor hood for CS tactics like that to work. BTW I thought you said I deleted that post?


H20,

Check out AM's post she was able to come up with the post she accused me of deleting.

Stlhd,

Pick a date then the avg is close enough to be valid as far back as I can see to 1990. It even skews a little more as Walmart and Microsoft have more comp today and return a little less on the bottom line re same dollar revenue today than then.
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#267166 - 05/20/04 03:14 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,


I thought you said you made no assertions? then you back pedaland not only admit that you did but stand by it. Talk about spin!
"you prove that my "gouging" comment is wrong. Haven't so far. I stand by it. "

you really do not understand what you are talking about do you? gallon, Liters, Barrels, Buckets, cups make no difference when you are discussin g profits. Dollars is all that matters, expenses minus revenue is the measure. Kinda like your bank account it makes no difference if you withdraw a $100 bill or 100 $1 dollar bills it's still 100 dollars.

Well if flat avg. profits per $ over 14 years with a projection for the same in 04 as of last week won't do it for you nothing will.
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#267167 - 05/20/04 04:29 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
TK I believe you are talking gasoline not oil. Earnings on barrels of oil are up dramatically for all oil companies not flat as you imply. Or do you think US oil companies are no longer pumping oil? Do the math TK. It costs the same to pump a barrel of oil today than it did yesterday. Today the price you sell a barrel for is up. I don't know why I even bother trying to reason with you. You will go with a flawed stance until people tire of it and then call it a success. We have a president who's like that. And yes it gives the appearance of price gouging when the reserves are not being utilized for their intended purpose.

AM....yeah but Laura is such a stepford wife. \:\)
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#267168 - 05/20/04 04:37 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
I like an aggressive woman ... on top. :p

... and Laura is almost a FLILF. \:D
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#267169 - 05/20/04 04:42 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

Since foreign oil accounts for 70% of our consumption and is taken into consideration of the projection of profits you are still wrong.
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#267170 - 05/20/04 04:58 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Nope. (A TK style comeback)
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#267171 - 05/20/04 08:38 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
TK-

You see the thing is, unless we copy and paste your every word for future reference(and I'm not about to waste my time doing that), if you delete something we can't go back and quote you. Worked out kinda nice for you, didn't it?

I saw the post in question and the context was 'having four miltary widows in your family'...ring a bell? Furthermore, the part aunty quoted is also altered from its original context.

Seriously dude, even grandpa has made a constructive comment or two on these threads, the temptation to go negative when it doesn't look good for your side is great, no ones going to begrudge you for going off the deep end once in a while.....

...but every thread and every post?

Take it from someone who had to learn the hard way, if you can't come constructive at least once in awhile, you won't be around long.

If you can't humble yourself and admit when you've made a mistake how do you expect even the staunchest of conservative posters here to take you seriously? If you don't care whether or not anyone takes you seriously, why are you even wasting your time?

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#267172 - 05/20/04 09:39 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
. "We have a president who's like that. And yes it gives the appearance of price gouging when the reserves are not being utilized for their intended purpose. "

Actually I am skeptical about using the oil reserves just to lower the price. The reserves are there to prevent what happened in the Jimmy Carter 70's when we had gas lines and embargos. The reserve is really for serious emergencies and not just to make it easier to drive our cars every day.

In terms of the price of gas...There are alot of things at work here, not the least of which is the supply chain. We haven't built any new refining capacity in over 17 years I think. We use too much and don't have enough to meet our crazy demand. China is coming of age and is a big consumer on the same world market where we buy gas and oil. But mainly I think the shoot up in oil prices has more to do with the jittery market place anticipating disruption of supply. A serious person should not claim that president Bush is creating this shortage for his friends in the oil business. Just not a credible reason.
I admit to being part of the problem by driving my Suburban and towing my boat and running my big outboard too much. I use a lot of fuel torching all those crosses on weekends too.
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#267174 - 05/20/04 10:10 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
We've enjoyed low gas prices for so long, we forgot what paying a higher price felt like. It's still a pretty good deal even at $2.50/gl. Have you checked lumber prices lately? Plywood up +200% in a year.

Take a look at this chart, it shows production/consumption of energy is the US in 1998...........click the link- http://eed.llnl.gov/flow/98flow.php

I'm pretty sure that Bush isn't losing sleep over it though.......other than the fact that if gas is still at $2.50/gl come fall, he's cooked.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#267175 - 05/20/04 10:37 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
gasoline is a commodity like lumber and steel, milk, gold...etc..

The Chinese are gobbling up the scrap metal at an alarming pace and that is why the price of steel products such as framing for construction has been skyrocketing...ask a contractor. Lumber wars with Canada and exporting so many logs overseas have helped shoot those prices up. Gasoline is also a commodity being used much more by China than ever before..and they have none of their own capacity...figure it out....Opportunism is commodity markets is nothing new and certainly does not operate along any party lines. If we were to get some really good news from the war on terrorism (heaven forbid) we would probably see some knee jerk price drops. Same goes for more bad news...the other way.
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#267177 - 05/22/04 03:43 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
With as vulnerable as we are supply-wise, opening the reserve would be a mistake we could wind up paying alot more for down the road.

Maybe this'll teach all you city folk to start taking public transit more seriously...and I don't mean some kooky, go-nowhere monorail either.
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#267178 - 05/22/04 10:28 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
Things are looking up..I sleep in a bit on Saturday..get up and check in here and I find myself agreeing with H2O completely. sheeesh
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#267179 - 05/22/04 10:43 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
There are lots of things we could do to become less dependent on foriegn oil. But our politicians lack the will to ask any of us to sacrafice, even a little, and we the people are generally unwilling to make any sacrafices.

We could raise gas milage standards just a little and save a ton of oil. We could lower the speed limit to 60 in every state and save a ton of oil. (My new truck has a digital display of actual fuel economy. At 60 MPG I get about 20-21 MPG . At 70 it drops to about 18.) I think that just the savings possible from a slightly lower speed limit and slightly higher gas milage requirements would more than equal total Alaska oil production, which currently goes to Japan anyway. Both are easy to do and both are unpopular because folks do not want to make any sacrafices.

Politically we nead Bush to get a lot more agressive with our "allies" that produce oil. We should be able to preassure them to increase productiuon. After all, don't we give many of them millions a year in aid? But why should GW push for lower gas prices, until the election comes nearer. His buddies in the oii companies are getting rich. Remember GW was an oil man, until he screwed that up too and his daddies friends had to bail him out.
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#267180 - 05/22/04 11:03 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
Come on Dave..I bail out my kids all the time...that's what dads do.

Maybe I can put a sail on my boat?
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#267181 - 05/22/04 12:01 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
GP: I agree about bailing out the kids. But I suspect mine are not planning on becoming the leaders of the free world. ( God, I hope not.)

As for the sail, nope I doubt that will help much. But I know I could drive my car more often VS the truck. I could drive a bit slower. I could encourage my congressman to support higher CAFE standards. And I could plan my trips more efficiently.

I wonder if we were all to consider better use of fossil fuels as more patriotic if things might change a bit? Or maybe higher prices will do all that for us. I read yesterday that prices on used SUVs are dropping and that there is a six-month wait for the Honda hybrid cars.
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#267182 - 05/22/04 01:49 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
I heard about the longwait for those hybrids...Also talked to a friend who had a similar Suburban to mine and he got $14K on a trade....He did buy a new Suburban,too. I might have to hang on to my other 4x4..Kids have all the nice fuel efficient cars. go figure.


By the way....I think my youngest just might grow up to rule the free world someday....Then they can write about her and how her dad bailed her out of jams all the time.

"She has NO character...why back in 04 her dad paid her cell phone bill....and bought her a car."
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#267184 - 05/23/04 12:10 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
We could save millions of gallons of gasoline daily by just inflating our tires to the correct pressure, and easing up just a little on the accelerator at stop lights and signs.

But since it makes little difference to us personally, most of us won't even do that. It's like litterers........they figure one little piece of garbage won't hurt, and it won't. But combine that with 3 million other little pieces of garbage and you get our highways.

So, anyway..........
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#267185 - 05/23/04 01:15 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13488
Grandpa,

I know you didn't care for Jimmy Carter, but I gotta' call ya' on that one. The Arab oil embargo and gas price hikes occurred in 1973 and 1974. Carter was elected in 1976 and took office in January 1977. If you need a president to blame, how about hanging it on your old buddies Nixon and Ford, for the sake of accuracy?

You pay your daughter's cell phone bill and buy her a car? Another difference between us I observe and find amusing. I never bail out my kids, thereby depriving them of valuable learning opportunities. But I did send them to high quality universities so they could learn to take care of themselves. Just made more sense to me.

Personally, I don't much care what the price of gas goes to, except for the adverse effect high energy prices typically have had on the national economy. I'll just ride my bike more.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#267186 - 05/24/04 11:05 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
H20,

The thread is titled typical Texas Republican if you look at it the whole first page has been deleted even the original post. So if I deleted my post the every one deleted thiers as well including you and AM.

I think mine went like this. I have 4 widows in my family from wars so do't tell me about sacrifice. for the record.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267187 - 05/24/04 11:08 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
KK,

On those profits as the dollar volume of sales increases would not the dollar volume of profit increae in proportion? Or are you saying that the historical avg. profit margin has increased? I do nto think you can show that can you?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267188 - 05/24/04 04:36 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
So King - What you're saying is that American consumers have TRIPLED their gas consumption this year over last year... and that these huge profits for the oil companies are the result???

Organic economics again I presume... ;\)
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#267189 - 05/24/04 06:41 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4salt,

No! those are pre tax earnings and pre write down,and net and gross earnings combined in a way intended to make the profits seem higher than in the past. Numbers and statistics are all about how you present them the truth lies in the ORGANIC anylysis called GAP, "Generally accepted account procedures." Profit is bottom line after all deductions. So profits may very well be up but no one has shown such and the 10 year avg. shows less profit than many retail business' in this country. It's easy for the ill informed to delare victory off of un substantiated facts or truth.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267190 - 05/24/04 07:20 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
So King, did you get a financial report and do your own math or are you just speaking in generalities?

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#267191 - 05/24/04 07:32 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Jeff,

I am saying that no one has shown that the oil companies are raking in record bottom line profits and they may very well be. What I have seen is a compendium report by KK that shows one companys pre tax , non charged profits, Another that shows gross profits and antoher that shows record revenues. All are completely different things and cannot add up to the sum of raping the people. The forcast I have from several investment sources show that the net profits are targeted to be at or near the 10 year avg. Which as a 5 are below, Microsoft, Walmart,krispy Kreme etc. Not exactly raping the public IMHO.

The only thing being posted does however fit the general perception that Bush is in bed with big oil and doing what ever he can to benefit big oil. none of it however adds up to that conclusion and is there fore speculation and propaganda.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267192 - 05/24/04 07:44 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
I don't think comparing the oil companies with other companies such as Walmart, MS, Krispy Kreme, et al, is fair.

Many people never enter those stores or use any of those products, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that does not depend on petroleum products for their livlihood. Even on small organic communes in Fall City. ;\)

Oil companies have Americans by the proverbial balls, and they know it.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#267193 - 05/24/04 08:20 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Wailuku Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 384
Loc: Portland
"It's easy for the ill informed to delare victory off of un substantiated facts or truth."

GAAP = Generally Accepted Accounting Principles

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#267194 - 05/25/04 10:32 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Besides any "bottom line" earnings you might see from conglomerates is hardly a gage on one aspect of their business. It is easy with lax accounting rules, one time charges, depreciation, executive pay plans, etc to show a loss on record revenues.
TK, you have yet to show the flat profit margin American oil companies are supposedly stifled with.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267195 - 05/25/04 10:36 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

I showed it 4 days ago.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267196 - 05/25/04 08:05 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
The link TK.
Your word only tends to not be too accurate.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267197 - 05/26/04 12:32 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267198 - 05/26/04 01:58 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
A stock ticker from MSN?
On your link click news and then the second item for Zacks and you will find:

ChevronTexaco Corporation CVX is engaged in every aspect of the oil and gas industry, including exploration and production; refining, marketing and transportation; chemicals manufacturing and sales; and power generation. The high oil and gas prices don't seem to be hurting companies like Chevron Texaco. Last month CVX announced record net income of $2.6 billion for the first quarter 2004, compared with net income of $1.9 billion in the year-ago period. The company discussed the successful quarter by saying "All of our major businesses contributed to an excellent first quarter, with profits that helped us achieve a 17% return on capital employed for the past 12 months." Since the beginning of the year the company also reduced their debt and contributed more than $500 million to their employee pension plans. Four top brokerage firms believe CVX is moving aggressively on several fronts to increase the value of the company for their stockholders and are recommending CVX on their Focus Lists.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267199 - 05/26/04 02:10 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd, is what you are right?

Try and stay focused I know it' s hard with a topic you have no concept of. Your accusation was that the oil companies were raping the consumers. I posted info that stated that profit marigins were flat on a 5 and 10 year avg. and lower than many major retail industries. You asked for a link I gave it and it supprts what I posted. It's even from a different source than the one I used because my investment info is not online.

That site shows this ( this is the important part so read slow)

·
Sales & Income Growth (past 12 months) Company Industry
Sales Growth 7.50% 10.70%
Income Growth 21.10% -5.10%

· CHEVRONTEXACO CORP one-year net profit margin: 6.8%
Difference from the company's 5-year average net profit margin: 2.0 pct. pts.
Difference from the average for the Major Integrated Oil & Gas group: 0.3 pct. pts.
Net profit margins (%)
Company 6.8%
Company 5-Yr Avg. 4.8%
Industry 6.5%


In summary
That the industry 5 year avg profit margin is 6.5%
that the industry income growth on a 5 year avg. is-5%
That the sales are up 10.7%

All added up does not point to any raping of the consumer.

So continue to change the subject and balather about gallons vs barrels and continue to show your ignorance in financial matters in fact and by your support of programs pushed by the DNC of which you have no hope of understanding before the election if at all.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267200 - 05/27/04 01:13 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Well King it's official...you just don't get even what you yourself are talking about. So I can only guess at what it is you have been trying to say. It would seem that you are trying to say that the cost of producing a barrel of oil goes up with the selling price. Which, if that were true, then the profit margin this year will remain flat. Sadly it's not true. Sorry. I still stand by my "accusation". A close analysis of this years end financials will tell the tale.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267201 - 05/27/04 01:22 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
By the way, from your own link, 1st qtr 10Q,
Net income 04 vs 03 $ 2,562 $ 1,920.

Went up 25% go figure.

Can't wait to see the second quarter.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267202 - 05/27/04 11:03 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Well it only took you 30 post to admit you made anaccusation. By that standard it will take another 120 to get you to admit you are cluless on the topic and there fore wrong. You got enough blather to go 120 more?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267203 - 05/27/04 03:24 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Geez, my 14 year old nephew could have thought of a better response. But then he does have a higher education.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267204 - 05/27/04 05:35 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Great,

Congratulate him on his two college degrees at 14. I hope he still has time to be a kid.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267205 - 05/27/04 11:22 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
a college degree or two doesn't mean you can find your bung with both hands....
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#267206 - 05/28/04 12:07 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Yeah, I've worked with a whole lot of lieutenants that had college degrees ... if ya know what I mean. ;\)
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#267207 - 05/28/04 08:26 AM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
I went to the Uof W and think my education was a great headstart but it was life lessons that did the most good. Flaunting an education in the form of a piece of paper is normal but not always credible.
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#267208 - 05/28/04 12:04 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
A forbes study years ago wanted to know what made ceos of foutune 1000 companies successful. What made them different from everyone else. What they found was that the avg. CEO had a C avg. in whatever school level they achieved. While most did have college degrees. What they saw was that these people where highly skilled at navigating in society. Their social skills drove them to the top.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267209 - 05/28/04 12:20 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Wow, spun into somehow I am flaunting college degrees now huh? Nope, just pointing out that my 14 year old nephew who is in Junior High could form a better argument than TK. College degrees are mainly a ticket punch. Concentrations do give you a heads up base that is hard to achieve in on the job experience but not impossible. That is if you have a career in your concentration. The only time I've ever mentioned that I have a higher education, I mean college for those who read into things, is in response to one of TK's unlimited can't form an argument so I'll wage a personal attack responses.
_________________________
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#267210 - 05/28/04 12:50 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

Stop the crying. You have been pounded point by point and started the personal attacks with references to "organic farm" many thread ago So be a man and stand up and admit your part in starting it it and quit the whine.

The point was you blames Bush indirectly by his ties to oil for the high prices and then blamed the oil companies for gouging. You have been shown with facts and figures that oil companies have a lower net profit per dollar of sales than many industries and that their overall profits relative to sales do not show the gouging or the raping you claim.

One more for you. It appaers that it has been a long term conspiracy and Bush is about the least gulity.

Good News About Gas Prices
by Stephen Moore

Stephen Moore is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.

A headline in Wednesday's edition of USA Today read: "Oil Prices Hit Highest Since Sept. 1990." The story glumly reported that "oil traded for more than $39 a barrel last week ... the highest closing price since 1990 and the 6th highest price ever."

Good news: It isn't true. Yes, gas prices have spiked upwards by at least 30 percent in most local markets this year, and yes, it's infuriating to pay $2.00 a gallon to fill up the tank. And yes, higher oil prices are a significant tax on the U.S. economy -- given that we're the world's largest importer of crude.

But prices, properly measured, are nowhere near their historical peak. In fact, the long-term trend in oil, gas, and electricity prices is downward, not upward.

What the reporter at USA Today and so many other fear mongers forgot to do was adjust for inflation. In the world of economics, this is an unpardonable sin. After all, if you don't adjust for inflation, just about everything is more expensive today than 30 years ago.

So let's look at the long-term trend for gas prices in inflation-adjusted dollars.

Gasoline prices paid at the pump have been on a steady rate of decline since the 1920s, with the obvious exception of the 1970s, when we faced an OPEC embargo and gasoline lines. In 1920 the real price of gas (excluding taxes) was twice as high as today. Electricity prices were about three-times higher 75 years ago.

If gas prices were as high today as they were in the late 1970s, we would now be paying about $6 a gallon for gas. Today's price at the pump is higher than it was as recently as 1985.

The same is true, by the way, for the cost of oil. Adjusted for wage growth, oil is slightly cheaper today than it was 20, 30, and 50 years ago, and five-times cheaper than 100 years ago. How can gas and oil be cheaper since we've used so much of it over time? Well, thanks to human innovation, we are always finding new sources of oil, while at the same time technology makes it cheaper to drill for it.

For example, the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay in Alaska have two- to three-times more reserves than originally believed. Russia, now on the way to becoming a capitalist economy, may soon become one of the world's top two oil producers, as the new Russian capitalist entrepreneurs continue to discover new untapped fields.

Of course, if Congress would only allow us to develop new oil sources here at home, gasoline prices could easily slip comfortably below $2.00 per gallon. When oil prices were $25 per barrel, we had the luxury of not drilling for more oil in Alaska. But now that the price is nearing $40 a barrel, with a good share of that money pipelined to Arab nations that are not always friendly to us (petrodollars have no doubt been siphoned off to terrorist networks in recent years), developing greater energy independence is no longer a luxury. In fact, it's an economic and national-security necessity of the first order. Any energy bill signed into law by the president this year must include the rights to drill in Alaska.

John Kerry has complained that President Bush is doing nothing to contain gasoline prices, but Kerry has been the consistent adversary of people who drive cars. He has supported gas-tax hikes of as much as 50 cents a gallon. He has also voted "no" every time he's had the chance to sink plans for drilling in Alaska, saying that doing so would endanger the environment for moose and elk. But it's likely that the biggest beneficiaries of Kerry's intransigence on drilling have been Arab oil exporters.

High gas prices could be a thorny political issue as we enter the spring and summer months, when travel across the country rises. But travelers should take solace in the fact that we now pay less for gas, adjusted for inflation and wages, than our parents and grandparents ever did. That's true even though the oil cartel, OPEC, holds the world price at least twice what it would be if there were a competitive marketplace at play. After all, in Saudi Arabia and many other oil-producing nations, oil costs about 50 cents per barrel to produce.

The best way to break the back of OPEC is to produce more oil here at home; if only our politicians would allow it.

This article was published in National Review Online, May 10, 2004.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267211 - 05/28/04 01:04 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Are you losing you're mind? I think you need to go back and try to find where I ever mentioned anything about an organic farm or where you live and then you need a serious reality check. You have shown or proven nothing. And now a new spin which is the same old crap about "adjusted for inflation". Too bad they don't also adjust it for supply and ease of delivery because the worlds oil supply is vastly larger than it's ever been, is easier to deliver and refine too which means you can't compare todays prices to 30 years ago. It should be cheaper today "adjusted for inflation". So it sounds like you are agreeing that prices should be much lower.
By the way I don't see anyone stopping drilling on private land it's when they want to TAKE public land or the sea where lines are drawn in the sand. If you are talking about ANWR it wouldn't make a dent in supply by the industires own estimates and would take decades before the oil began flowing anyway so I don't see much of a return on the tapayers land.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#267212 - 05/28/04 01:33 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stlhd,

That limb has to be pretty thin by now. So you are claiming shipping cost have gone down in the past 30 years not up? Dirlling and exploration is cheaper? Take your mouth of the pipe boy!
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#267213 - 05/28/04 01:50 PM Re: Kerry has a new advisor
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Sthld,

"I think you need to go back and try to find where I ever mentioned anything about an organic farm or where you live " Yes it was others. My apologies for saying it was you.
Sincerely
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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