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#273222 - 10/12/04 04:12 PM The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
John Edwards: 'When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again'...

The whole stem cell issue is pandering and playing on emotions . Medical science can cure less the 1/10th of 1% of all known diseases. It cannot even cure the common cold but it will repair the central nervous system in 4 years?
Are people really that stupid even if they want to believe? I have a father in law paralyzed witha brutal form of MS and I knowthat the chances that it will be cured in my lifetime are very remote. However much I would love to have him stand up and fish with his grandkids that is reality.
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#273223 - 10/12/04 04:17 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
You are ignorant on this issue.

Do the research before you open your gob.
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#273224 - 10/12/04 04:48 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
...apparently less ignorant than Edwards\Kerry.

How about you explain the link between embryonic stem cell research and spinal cord problems?

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#273225 - 10/12/04 04:54 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
":explain the link between embryonic stem cell research and spinal cord problems"

It's all theroetical at this point for any medical issue . Researchers jockying for grants to do the foundation research. Selling today based on a promise in the future. Jerry Lewis and MD are proof of how it works.
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#273226 - 10/12/04 05:10 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
4Salt Offline
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Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
I agree wholeheartedly king! In fact... let's go one step further... Let's end medical research ALTOGETHER! We're never gonna cure the right diseases and after all it's just a way for liberal / socialist researchers to suck off of the teet of the Federal government right?

Where would we be today if Jonas Salk thought the way you do... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PP - Embryonic stem cells can transform into any type of cell, and can replicate easily. The thought is that one day (soon) we'll be able to generate spinal cord tissue with them and thereby repair damaged spinal cord cells (which, like heart cells, don't regenerate.)

p.s. I gotta feelin' a smart feller like yerself already knew the answer to the question posed above. ;\)
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#273227 - 10/12/04 05:26 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4salt,

I never said stop anything. I said it was a lie that in 4 years stem cell research would advance to the point the we would be able to regenerate damaged central nervous systems. I doubt it would happen in our life time if ever. People are prying on people need to believe on this issue. I remember the same promise in the mid 1980 re: aids. Here we are in 2004 wheres the cure? The only reason I ever supported AIDS research was the emotionalism attached to it at the time would advance all viral research. The cure for aids is simple.
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#273228 - 10/12/04 05:52 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by 4Salt:


Where would we be today if Jonas Salk thought the way you do... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

------------------------------------------------------------
4 Salt,

Do you know where some of the medical research that Jonas Salk used to help him develope the polio vaccine came from?
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#273229 - 10/12/04 05:53 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
But here's the thing king... HOPE (false or otherwise) is a major component of the recovery process. If all those with cancer, AIDS, Spinal cord injuries etc... resigned themselves to the fact that it's gonna take years (if at all) to find a cure, then what's the point of fighting?

If we always take the reality pessimistic approach, and don't believe that we can find cures quickly, then we also run the risk of losing our brightest, most ambitious researchers to other pursuits. After all... why do I want to devote my life to finding a cure for AIDS when 'ol king says: "It aint gonna happen in your lifetime."

Edit:

Rory - Yes, it came from his earlier work studying a dead-virus cure for influenza, and from his work with the National Institute for Infantile Paralysis. I was merely using Salk as one example of someone who didn't just say "oh well... guess it's gonna take me a long while to develop this vaccine."
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#273230 - 10/12/04 05:58 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4salt,

You can have hope with out it being a lie and the tuth is never pessimistic. BTW I know 2 researchers specfically in the feild of aids. They tell me it may never happen because of the virus' abiltiy to mutate faster than we can deal with it. That the most we can hope for is longer life and beter quality of life.
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#273231 - 10/12/04 07:44 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Edwards Stem Cell Vision:

'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases...
When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.' Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promises during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa...
------------------------------------------------------------

Hallelujah!!!!
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#273232 - 10/12/04 09:50 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
I said it was a lie that in 4 years stem cell research would advance to the point the we would be able to regenerate damaged central nervous systems
And I say you're as full of sh!t as they are making such a statement. How the hell could you possibly know this?

You can't, and claiming you have some crystal ball which gives you foresight nobody else has is almost comical. Get over yourself.

WTF do you know about stem cell research anyway? Leading researcher in that field along with being Supreme Court Justice, CEO of a Fortune 500 company, Theologian, and Economist too, are you?

Tell us again how it's better to destroy the tissue, or keep it frozen forever than it would be to TRY to save people's lives with it. Go ahead, this brilliant response shouldn't take long.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

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#273233 - 10/13/04 10:57 AM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4salt, I live with the reality every day and the truth has never stopped my FIL once. He was supposed to be dead 5 years ago. Instead of clinging to a false hope of a cure he has a a real goal of seeing his kids and grandkids and wife the next day. Being involved with MS for 15 years now I am in the high 90% range it will never be cured just treated.

Hey Dan put your money where you mouth is then. Sell the house the car everything and invest in a company doing stem cell research to cure spinal cord injuries. Let me know how much money you have left in 4 years. If you can find a phone in tent city. My roomate in college was diagnosed with Diabetes in 1979. they told him then that they would have the disease cured in less than ten years with gene therapy,insulin pumps or even panceatic transplants. He still give himself two injections a day. If you are such a believer that it is the holy grail of medicine how much are you giving ? Very little I would imagine. Oh thats right you are so sure about it you want the tax payers to cover the bill so you can go fishing as much as possible.
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#273234 - 10/13/04 01:17 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
goharley Offline
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Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Gawd, what a stupid argument, Elvis! Why don't you sell your organic mushroom commune and donate the enitire $7.53 to the GOP for Bush's re-selection if you support him so fervently. Why don't you sell everything you own and donate it to the war cause if you honestly believe it will keep America safer?

I told you before you should have just stopped when you had a few here convinced you actually knew what you were talking about. But you insisted on continuing to post and have now removed all doubt that you are indeed clueless. :rolleyes:

Your black and white world equates to an irrational man on the cusp of insanity. But you're in good company; Zarqawi and Bush are both described as viewing the world as black and white.
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#273235 - 10/13/04 01:49 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
ACT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 224
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
If they can bring Christopher Reeves back out of his wheel chair it'll be devine intervention as they still haven't brought Houdini back from the otherside either.

At this point and time I don't think stem cell or any other kind of research will do him much good.

Although he might just be able vote for sKerry just like those other residents from beyond voted for both Gore in the last election and Mayor Daily in Chicago over the years.

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#273236 - 10/13/04 02:43 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
Way to show some empathy there TK.

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#273237 - 10/13/04 02:47 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
jeffed,

You mean like Kerry edwards that pounced on Reeves death for political gain?
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#273238 - 10/13/04 02:50 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Harley,

I bet you have scrunchies in many colors one for everyside of the issues you straddle.
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#273239 - 10/13/04 02:58 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
Maybe Edwards did go too far with his comments. What I find interesting about Reeves is that he didn't sit back and feel sorry for himself. He fought for a cause and fought the status quo. In fact, I believe it was reported that he recently was in contact with Kerry because he knows which candidate(s) have the best chance to bring about hope and progress in this area. George Bush chose to align himself with the far right Christian conservatives and turn his back on this issue.

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#273240 - 10/13/04 03:12 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
He turned his back on nothing. He is the only president to fund embryo stem cell research . He has taken a position of letting the people disscuss the ethics and decide for themselves when and if to proceed. Instead of letting a minority opinion drive an agenda. Kerry is a master of walking the fence and having two opinions about every issue. He is a supposed devout catholic which makes his choice on the matter clear yet he supports it. Some say Reagan turned his back on the AIDs issue they said at the time that millions would die because of it. As it turns out millions died and reagans choice had nothing to do with it. They still die today 20+ years later. The fruits of this research are a very long ways away and there are no guaranteees. It should be a very minor issue in the campaign. The only reason it is an issue at all is to point the finger at Bush being a Christian and nothing to do with the issue. If it where a real issue and viable it would move into the private sector and move forward.
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#273241 - 10/13/04 03:16 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
4Salt Offline
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Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Quote:
You mean like Kerry edwards that pounced on Reeves death for political gain?
When did they do that king? Best as I can recall, the VP debate and Bush vs. Kerry part 2 happened last week... and Chris Reeve didn't pass on till the weekend?

Must be that grasp on reality you have givin' you trouble again... ;\)
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#273242 - 10/13/04 04:03 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by 4Salt:
Quote:
You mean like Kerry edwards that pounced on Reeves death for political gain?
When did they do that king? Best as I can recall, the VP debate and Bush vs. Kerry part 2 happened last week... and Chris Reeve didn't pass on till the weekend?

;\)
------------------------------------------------------------

4 Salt,

Try to keep up would ya.

Little Johnny didn't even let Reeve's body get cold after passing away to try and make polital points from his passing.

This kind of disgusting and false diatribe may have worked on empathetic rubes in the Southern civil coutrooms--but it now exposes him to the Nation for the shameless shuck and jive artist that he is would make light of his grandmothers irregular bowel movements (even if it wasn't a problem or even true) if he thought it might help him in the poles or win a lawsuit. Edwards has no moral conscience or respect.
------------------------------------------------------------
He made these comments right after Reeve died.
------------------------------------------------------------
Edwards Stem Cell Vision:

'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases...
When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.' Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promises during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa...
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#273243 - 10/13/04 04:10 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Quote:
Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promises during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa...
Ahhh Rory... I notice that the date of that speech is conspicuously absent. ;\)

He also said basically the same thing during the VP debates.

Are you trying to say that Edwards, knowing full well that Christopher Reeve had passed, (which didn't hit the airwaves till Sunday) said those things regardless?

It is you my friend who should endeavor to "keep up". ;\) :p
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#273244 - 10/13/04 04:24 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4 Salt,

He said it yesterday.
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#273245 - 10/13/04 04:36 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
OK, my bad. \:o

Here's just a morsel of "food for thought":

Perhaps Christopher Reeve being the most well known person with a spinal cord injury was the motivation behind Edwards statement. After all If he would have said:" People like Joe Schmo are going to get out of their wheelchairs and walk again" it probably wouldn't have had the same impact on high schoolers who, as you so often point out, only seem to relate to what they see on TV?

Or... perhaps he hadn't heard the news yet? Either way, I'll personally give him the benefit of the doubt... just as I would Dick Cheney if he had said it.
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#273246 - 10/13/04 04:48 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
4 Salt,

The disgusting comment by Edwards was just made on the campaign trail right after Little Johnny acknowledged Reeve's passing.
------------------------------------------------------------

On Special Report with Brit Hume, Charles Krauthammer was asked about this. Charles Krauthammer is in a wheelchair. Charles Krauthammer is a paraplegic. He is outraged by Edwards' comments and this is what he said.

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, no one really knows, one of the great mysteries in medicine is why the spinal cord does not regenerate, and no one has any idea of the answers, no one is in any way sure that we're going to learn the answer from stem cell research. We might, but I've heard a lot of hype over the last 30 years about the keys to the kingdom here in this issue and all of that have proved false. For Edwards to make the claim he did is the worst demagoguery I've heard in Washington in a quarter century. To imply that Christopher Reeve was kept in the wheelchair because of the policies of the Bush administration on stem cells is ridiculous and insulting.


------------------------------------------------------------
This article was written by Charles Krauthammer who was in a car accident and suffered a spinal cord injury that has prevented him from walking for over 30 years.
------------------------------------------------------------

Why Lines Must Be Drawn

Stem cells present a complex moral issue.

Shame on Democrats for polarizing it


Monday, Aug. 16, 2004
In an election year, it is too much to expect serious and complicated moral issues to be treated with seriousness and complexity. Nonetheless, the way Democrats have managed to caricature and debase the debate over embryonic stem-cell research stands in a class by itself.

In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry three times referred to "the ban" on stem-cell research instituted by President George W. Bush. What ban? Stem-cell research is legal in the U.S. and has been so since human embryonic stem cells were first isolated in 1998. There are dozens of groups studying them, including major stem-cell centers recently launched at Stanford and Harvard.

Perhaps Democrats mean a ban on federal funding for stem-cell research. But, in fact, there is no such ban. Through the Clinton years there was a ban. Not a single penny of federal money was allowed for any embryo research. In his first year in office, however, President Bush reviewed the issue and permitted the first federal funding of stem-cell research ever.

Bush did more than just free up money. In August 2001 he addressed the issue in one of the most morally serious speeches ever delivered by a U.S. President. Political speeches are generally constructed — I know; I used to write them — so that facts are stacked from the very beginning to lead you inexorably to the foregone conclusion. In contrast, Bush's nationally televised address presented both sides of the question with such fairness and respect that three-quarters of the way through the speech you found yourself without any idea where the President would come out.

The position he did adopt was one kind of middle ground — funding research using existing stem-cell lines but not funding research to create stem-cell lines because these must inevitably involve the destruction of human embryos.

I would have drawn the line differently. I would have permitted the conduct of all research using cells drawn from the discarded embryos of fertility clinics (unused and ultimately doomed) but not from embryos created purposely and wantonly for nothing but use by science.

Honorable people will draw the line in different places because this is not an issue of reason vs. ignorance, as the Democrats have portrayed it, but of recognizing two important competing human values: the thirst for knowledge and cures on the one hand and, on the other, the respect for even embryonic human life and a well-grounded respect for the proven human capacity to misuse newly acquired powers, in this case, the power to manipulate, reshape, dissect and redesign the developing human embryo.

However, having no doubt discovered through focus groups and polling that stem-cell research might be a useful reverse-wedge issue against Republicans, who have traditionally enjoyed an electoral advantage on "values," the Democrats showcased it with a prime-time convention speech by the well-known medical expert Ron Reagan. Message? On the one side are the forces of the good, on the verge of curing such terrible afflictions as Parkinson's, diabetes and spinal-cord injury. On the other are the forces of reaction and superstition who, slaves to a primitive religiosity, would condemn millions to suffer and die. Or as Reagan subtly put it, the choice is "between reason and ignorance, between true compassion and mere ideology."

Compassion? There's nothing less compassionate than to construct a political constituency of sufferers (and their loved ones) by falsely and cruelly intimating that their disease is on the very cusp of cure if only the President would stop playing politics with the issue. Why, after all, was Reagan addressing the nation on a subject of which he knows nothing? Because his famous father died of Alzheimer's, and some (including, sadly, Nancy Reagan) have been led to believe that Alzheimer's is curable using stem cells. This is nonsense. Cynical nonsense. Or as Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem-cell researcher at the National Institutes of Health, admitted candidly to the Washington Post, a fiction: "People need a fairy tale." Yet Kerry began his radio address with the disgraceful claim that the stem-cell "ban" is standing in the way of an Alzheimer's cure.

When I was 22 and a first-year medical student, I suffered a spinal-cord injury. I have not walked in 32 years. I would be delighted to do so again. But not at any price. I think it is more important to bequeath to my son a world that retains a moral compass, a world that when unleashing the most powerful human discovery since Alamogordo — something as protean, elemental, powerful and potentially dangerous as the manipulation and re-formation of the human embryo — recognizes that lines must be drawn and fences erected
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#273247 - 10/13/04 05:08 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
papaslap Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 622
Loc: Olympia
Quote:
he turned his back on nothing. He is the only president to fund embryo stem cell research
This is would be great area for the Johns to make a little investment.
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#273248 - 10/13/04 05:35 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Originally posted by Rory Bellows:
The disgusting comment by Edwards was just made on the campaign trail right after Little Johnny acknowledged Reeve's passing.
:rolleyes: Amazing. You're so damned sensitive and compassionate. I gather you're going to write a lengthy essay on how disgusting the RNC was for the number of times it invoked the image of 9/11?

I mean, since you can't stand the thought of a candidate using someone's death for political gain, and all. :rolleyes:

And the only reason Bush is the first to fund stem cell research is because the science wasn't available until 1998. The Clinton administration was on the verge of issuing grants for research when he left office. Bush initially banned stem cell research funding, and then changed his mind late in 2001. (you know, like a flip-flop) You can find that at Religious Tolerance dot org.
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#273249 - 10/13/04 06:56 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2386
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
You go GoHarley!!!
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#273250 - 10/13/04 07:09 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Goharley,

I've got a great new Avatar for you: \:D



------------------------------------------------------------

"For Edwards to make the claim he did is the worst demagoguery I've heard in Washington in a quarter century. To imply that Christopher Reeve was kept in the wheelchair because of the policies of the Bush administration on stem cells is ridiculous and insulting."---Charles Krauthammer 10/11/04

(but what does he know--he's only a M.D. who's been a paraplegic for over thirty years who's studied spinal cord injuries extensively )
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#273251 - 10/13/04 07:27 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
I pictured Eddie jumping up and down with pom poms cheering for GH.


Who is stopping the private sector if it is so viable? I thought health care for everyone was more important.
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#273252 - 10/13/04 09:36 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2386
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
King - you keep your eyes and right wing hands off my pom poms!!
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

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#273253 - 10/13/04 11:34 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
how much are you giving ? Very little I would imagine
And how would you know this? Oh that's right..........you don't, but that never stopped the hot air from rushing out your ass before either.

Thanks for not addressing my earlier point about destroying or keeping frozen indefinitely embryos that might be used in research with life-saving potential. Your brilliant retort was even shorter than I'd anticipated.

TK is just like the tools that claimed the atom couldn't be split because.......gee.........it hadn't happened yet. Yeah, well no sh!t Sherlock. Results usually come AFTER research.

I suppose the government can only be counted on to fund research with moral questions when it's used to incinerate people, not save them huh? We'll research the hell out of nuclear fission so we can blow people up (no moral questions there right? ), but we get all tight-assed (well, you do) about using embryonic tissue because it "could" be life........but where's the outrage when the tissue is disposed of (usually burned), or kept frozen in limbo until it is destroyed?

Tell your diabetic buddy he should get a new friend. He'd be dead already if scientists took the whiny-assed "we won't have a cure tomorrow, so let's not even try" approach you seem to be advocating. At least now he probably takes gentically-human insulin, takes blood-pressure meds for kidney maintenance, and will have precision laser eye surgery available if retinopathy sets in. None of it came from people sitting on their ass sniveling about the current lack of a cure. You do what you can to stay healthy until there IS a cure. Could be tomorrow, next year, 10 years or never. But only a loser stops looking.

Oh, and your premise of not wanting your tax money going to research you find morally questionable reminds me of the granola/peacenik crowd and their view of weapons research. Two peas in a pod, you are.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

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#273255 - 10/14/04 12:36 AM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Krauthammer credible? He makes guys like Stalin and Mussolini look more liberal than Ted Kennedy.

Speaking of pom poms, wasn't Bush a cheerleader in college? Is he trying to make up for that now with his faux machismo? ;\)
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#273256 - 10/14/04 12:47 AM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
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#273257 - 10/14/04 10:52 AM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
DanS,

You assume way to much O pompous one. I am not against stem cell research, never have been. I clearly state that it is unproven technology and that I disagree with making claims that it will cure any disease . It's pandering to get people to support it on emotion not facts. Was reading comprehension an elective at UW? Embryonic research? depends. It seems to me that the birth control pill has the same net effect on the embryo. So that if the pill is OK where is the issue with using the discarded embryo's for research? Some more time thinking on that issue will help me answer the question. Secondly given the answer is a go then what are the controls we can put place to make sure that we are not just farmining embryo's for science? So the moratorium has been good from my vantage point.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#273258 - 10/14/04 10:25 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
O pompous one
:D Now THAT'S funny! TK is calling me pompous! \:D Hello pot.............

If nothing else, this BB provides some much needed humor.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#273259 - 10/15/04 11:45 AM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
You forgot Dan, we must pay our daily homage and kneel before the all mighty, all powerful, all knowing of everything in the Universe, THE KING. :rolleyes:

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#273260 - 10/15/04 12:06 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
From one that is intellectually dishonest meaning he has capacity to think and the other a dullard I take that to be a compliment \:D
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#273262 - 10/15/04 01:36 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Edwards' loathsome display of demagoguery:

I never expected a candidate for vice president to give paralysis sufferers false hope

By Charles Krauthammer


Editor's note: The author is confined to a wheel chair


http://www.jewishworldreview.com

After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry campaign has a plan — nay, a promise — to cure paralysis. What is the plan? Vote for Kerry.

This is John Edwards on Monday at a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."

In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately, for personal gain, raising false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is despicable.

Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?

First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did, that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.

Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants, was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.

As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the hype — and have tried in my own counseling of people with new spinal cord injuries to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand one is dealt. The greatest enemies of this advice have been the snake-oil salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a candidate for vice president to be one of them.

Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.

George Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just two years ago. As Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for anybody who wants them.

Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National Institutes of Health for the federal funding.

In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, Kerry referred not once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush. At the time, Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of Alzheimer's.

So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an Alzheimer's cure.

This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the newest and most promising approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable progress in using biochemicals to clear the "plaque" deposits in the brain that lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem cells" having passed his lips.


So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically for them.

Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.

There is no apologizing for Edwards's remark. It is too revealing. There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#273263 - 10/16/04 01:40 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
False hope? It's only false if it doesn't work, and since we don't know yet if it will work, calling it "false" hope is a stretch.

Not surpising to see Rory making that stretch right along with Krauthammer, though.

Sit in your chair and lose hope for any cure, Krauthammer............it's your "hopeless" life to lead.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#273264 - 10/18/04 12:24 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Why is being honset losing hope?


Here is how the libs think on such matters. Reality is what you manufacture not what is really happening.


Democrats in Maryland are condemning fellow Democrat William Donald Schaefer — the state's popular and outspoken comptroller and former governor — for saying people suffering from AIDS "brought it on themselves."

"Sad, mean-spirited and counterproductive" says Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley.

"Appall[ing] ... insensitive and, frankly, ignorant" says Democratic Delegate John Hurson — who is calling for Schaefer's resignation.

But, according to the Centers for Disease Control, more than 90 percent of all AIDS cases in the United States are the result of voluntary behavior, namely sex or drug use.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#273266 - 10/18/04 03:24 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2386
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
I don't know Aunty, I don't want the Rebuplicans to get any angrier!!! \:D
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#273267 - 10/18/04 03:30 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
You got that right Eddie. I'd hate to see GW's foreign policy if Laura quit putt'n out.

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#273268 - 10/18/04 03:49 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:


The Republicans should set a good example for the rest of us and stop having sex!

------------------------------------------------------------
'PRIMETIME LIVE' POLL:

MORE REPUBLICANS SATISFIED WITH SEX LIVES THAN DEMOCRATS


Oct. 18, 2004 — American Sex Lives 2004, a new "Primetime Live" sex poll conducted in conjunction with the ABC News Polling Unit, is among the most comprehensive surveys of its kind in decades and establishes a new, detailed picture of sex attitudes and behavior in America today.

The full results of this wide-ranging sex poll will be presented during a live, hourlong "Primetime Live" event airing Thursday, Oct. 21 (10-11 p.m. ET) on the ABC Television Network.

'Primetime Live' Poll: More Republicans Satisfied With Sex Lives Than Democrats

The "Primetime Live" sex poll answers many provocative questions that we have all wondered about, but have never dared to ask, including: how many Americans describe themselves as sexually "traditional" or "adventurous"; how often are Americans having sex; what are the sex habits of cheaters; and who is cheating with their co-worker and who is cheating in the workplace.

The poll analysis includes a breakdown by many subgroups, including region, age and even political party affiliation, which is the topic of results released today:

Of those involved in a committed relationship, who is very satisfied with their relationship?
Republicans — 87 percent; Democrats — 76 percent

Who is very satisfied with their sex life?
Republicans — 56 percent; Democrats — 47 percent

The poll analysis also reveals who has worn something sexy to enhance their sex life:
Republicans — 72 percent; Democrats — 62 percent

When asked whether they had ever faked an orgasm, more Democrats (33 percent) than Republicans (26 percent) said they had.

Among the factors that impact the survey results is that more men identify themselves as Republicans and men are more likely to say they are sexually satisfied and enjoy sex "a great deal." Also, Democrats are more likely to be women; and the poll results show that women are more likely to fake orgasms.

The American Sex Lives 2004 survey was conducted by telephone August 2-9, 2004, among a random, anonymous, national sample of adults 18-99 years old. The results have a 2.5-point error margin for all respondents; as in any poll, sampling error is higher for subgroups.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#273269 - 10/18/04 04:46 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
As much as the Republicans are fookin' the rest of the nation, I'd sure think they'd be satisfied. ;\)
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#273270 - 10/18/04 04:57 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
That should be no suprise.
The majority of libs are women, generally angry and effeminate males raised by the angry women. They hate men and view the male genitals as a weapon when polled. If it where not for gays bringing the avg up the libs would rank just above dead folks in sexual happiness. \:D
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#273271 - 10/18/04 05:40 PM Re: The Biggest lie so far.
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Since this thread was started about lies, I thought I'd get it back on track. ;\)

Quote:
President Bush has tried to avoid any responsibility for the flu vaccine shortage by making misleading statements. During the presidential debate last Wednesday, President Bush said the problem was that "we relied upon a company out of England." That isn't true. Chiron Corp., the company whose vaccine plant was contaminated, is a California company - subject to regulation by the U.S. government - that operates a factory in England.

During the debate, President Bush also said, "we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country." That isn't true either. It was the British authorities who, after inspecting the plant, revoked the factory's license on October 5th.

In June 2003, the United States Food and Drug Administration inspected the Chiron plant. Initially, the FDA found that the plant was contaminated with bacteria but later announced, "the problems were corrected to their satisfaction," and allowed the plant to continue to operate.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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