If Lowry hadn't had his head up his butt this wouldn't even be an issue.

Back when the state was fighting with the tribes on slot machines, the tribes offered to pay 35% taxes on the revenue generated by the slots. Dumb ol Mike didn't see any sense in that , so the Indians put the slots in anyways.

People will gamble anyway, so lets let them do it here instead of going to canada, or out of state. Saying that there will be more gambling is not true, I will not run out and start gambling because there are machines in some of the places that I frequent.to
Lets vote this in and take the money that is offered to our state to reduce the traffic,or meds for seniors,or whatever.I thought this was the land of the free, If they want gamble then let them...................Fishy.

The intiative provides for $400 million per year in property tax reduction which is a 27% cut. Sure not everyone owns a home but so many do that I would say it should be a very popular decision. If the tribes were willing to trade their failing net fisheries for the gambling monopoly I might consider voting against I-892.

Auntie:

I'm not against gambling, and I have plenty of vices. On issues like this, I'm pretty much a live and let live kind of guy. Besides, I didn't want to get into that. I was just trying to make the point that if you're collecting money to fund the government, that's a tax, no matter what you call it or where/how you collect it.

which brings me to you grandpa. Sure it's relief for property owners, but it's collecting the same money from someone else, which I guess is what Eyeman means by "revenue neutral." So in the long run it's not reducing the overall tax bill, just switching the burden from one group to another (though I do assume plenty of property owners gamble). I own a house and I have to pay taxes on it, so what the hell: who wouldn't like a break? But if all I'm doing is handing the bill to someone else, I feel a responsibility to at least acknowledge that's what's happening.

But like I said, I still have to educate myself on this one. Who knows? Maybe I'll vote yes.

good points Ramon...The state already collects many taxes from one group and passes on the services or savings on to other groups. Hotel Motel taxes and such to pay for stadiums is one example. State lottery is another. Property taxes pay for schools and those taxes are collected from people who do not have kids in school.

Initiative I-892 is not my choice of the best way to lower property taxes. Spending reductions and deflation of state government would be a couple of other ways to lower taxes.

The unique twist on this initiative is that it will collect taxes from a monopoly that does not pay taxes for running a big business and making a profit in this state by diverting business away from their non tax paying operations to operations that will pay taxes. Yes I agree with Ramon that this bounty to lower property taxes is another form of tax or levy if you will.

When gamblers frequent non-tribal casinos they leave money behind and a bunch of it is collected by the state in the form of taxes. So the state already takes from gamblers and gives to others. Why not take taxes from ALL such businesses in a fair and equal manner?

I assume we can't tax indian country but we can compete with them AND pay our taxes too which the tribes do not do. The books are not open for all to see when it comes to tribeal casinos. Perhaps if we knew just how little goes back to help the average tribal member compared to what is siphoned off by the big shots and out of state gambling interests we would be so shocked we would all vote for I-892?

Just like the tribal take of fish and shellfish we have to accept the tribes accounting with no oversight or audit by anyone outside. That is really getting old.

I try to understand what I vote for, it is hard sometimes to get all the facts, and some times I vote without all the facts as I suspect most do. And sometimes I vote on issues and postions in a manner that favors my lifestyle and family.

Grampa, do you really think taking gambling share away from the tribes will weaken their ability to lobby fishing issues? I do not, they still will have plenty of money for that.

Will I get a break on my property taxes? That will be a first, not sure I would see them actually go down, surely the county will assess me higher anyway.

What I need to remember when I vote is this initiative is about gambling and the allocation of it's profits towards tax relief. It has nothing to with fishing.

undecided on I-892....

Grandpa:

I-892 will do nothing to lower property taxes. That is just a "hook" to get the naive to support this turkey.

I-892 is about money -- profits for the sponsors and their shill, Tim Eyman -- period!

I realize that Eyman probably skipped his classes on Civics and US Government while he was partying it up at Wazzou, but I would remind all that we do not have a democracy in this country, but rather a system of representative government.

Like or not, we elect public servants to draft, debate and pass legislation. Then we have an executive to sign or veto said legislation. Finally there is a judicial branch to consider the constitutionality of the signed law. This is called checks and balances, and it is a crucial and intended mechanism in our U.S. and washington State consititutions.

Yes, there is a provision for initiatives and direct democracy that allows these ballot initiatives. But our Founding Fathers intended this to be a last resort, and one used only when all legislative efforts had failed.

Drafting one crappy piece of garbage after another and circumventing the legislative process entirely by foisting it on an uninformed electorate is worse than bad government in my book. It is almost treasonous!

If Tim Eyman really wants to influence public policy in this state, he should work within the system and run for office. He was revealed the last time to be both a liar and a profiteer. Why anyone would ever now support him or his efforts is beyond me.

Any ballot inititative that carries Eyman's endorsement while he gains financially from it should be rejected on principle by the voters of this State. If the idea behind it has merit, find a legislative sponsor to draft and introduce a bill. Then maybe we can debate the issue on its merits.

Tim Eyeman and David Goldstein are on KVI 570 AM 'Commute with Carlson' debating the I-892 levy right now (4-5 pm 10/12)

Shorezinger, profiteer, liar, you have just discribed most politicians. They will lie cheat and steal to get what they want. Working within the confines of the law? The initiative process is within the confines of the law and if someone can do that and find a way to profit from it, then I say go for it. As for this initiative, I am all for it,this is the land of the free, and if (as you put it) the uniformed, want to gamble, then I say let them do it here. In washington state, at least that way the tax revenue stays here.
My only hope is that if this passes, the policos find a way to use this revenue to enhance the quality of life here in washington...............................Fishy.

interesting how 15+ anti I-892 ad's and a buttload of pms murrey ads are aimed at the the dinner time consumer without funding from opposing parties???
hmmm?
maybe ? it's a KIRO thing?

vote commie?
vote greenie?
vote libertarian:)
just rethink voting status quo
same scat
different handle
it is time for a change
please rethink the normal republicrats vs the destruct o "demo" crats

why?
cause its the same scat
just a slightly dfiffering oder

...does this mean we can put political posts back up on the main board or is this just posted in here so some fresh new voices can bash the tribes?

bashing the tribes? must be racist rants right?


no way...just observations concerning lack of accountability and special status gone overboard.

By the way to the previous rants about how this intiative will not effect property taxes shows an incredible lack of common sense as most of the rest of the post does.

We wouldn't see so many initiatives if Washington State government did not ignore the voters so many times.

some of what has been written here could be viewed as tribe bashing, yes. racist?...why those are your words....

i thought political topics got sent over to the 'you, aunty, elvis and me' forum so those with sensitive eyes didn't have to look at them?

Why start the thread here is what I am asking you g'pa? Is it because you know there is so much anti-tribe sentiment amongst the general poulation of this board, certainly you couldn't fail to have people lining up to support anything that would affect the tribes negatively? No? Given the only crossover between 'fishing' and 'gambling' is the tribes, I can see no other reason to post this particular off topic thread on the main fishing board.

where is slabquest anyway to tell us all to talk fishing or shut up?

OOPS....I never even gave it a thought that this topic is on the WRONG board. Actually I don't even like this initiative but wanted to see why some would support it. Whether it would be the property tax side or the anti-tribe side. And , oh yes, Slab does lecture me daily.

This post is relevant to fishing and sport fishing interests.

If I-892 fails on November 2nd and the tribes continue to have ALL of the of the un-taxed millions from slot machine revenue, it's very naive to believe that the tribes wouldn't eventually use some of their vast fortune from one monoploy (Electronic Gaming) to lobby for an increasingly larger and less restricted/verified piece of the Washington State fishing pie.

Finally, something that Rory and I agree on!
All men are created equal, that should mean that every one of us gets to have the same opportunities. Gambling,fishing,even stupid behavior is something that every one should have equal access too.
Intelligent choices are the matter of the individual. If you don't want to gamble,then don't...............Fishy.........

Aunty, I would never try to lecture Grandpa about anything. He is a hard headed Scandanavian after all.

Now ED....I do listen sometimes...Even when you are misguided I do listen. Being a full blooded Norwegian saves me a lot of money on haircuts...$1 per side.

By the way saying that I-892 will expand gambling is kind of silly since if it fails gambling will still expand but only on the Rez where no taxes are paid and boat loads of money are siphoned off to lobbyists to buy their influence in the halls of government. Right now no one wants to touch their issues with 10' pole that is for sure.

Absentee Ballots were sent out today
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Study the issues and exercise your right as an American citizen to participate in representative government.
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INITIATIVE TO THE PEOPLE 892

Initiative Measure No. 892 concerns authorizing additional "electronic scratch ticket machines" to reduce property taxes. This measure would authorize licensed non-tribal gambling establishments to operate the same type and number of machines as tribal governments, with a portion of tax revenue used to reduce state property taxes. Should this measure be enacted into law?

____YES ____NO

CUT THE BULL****>>>>>>>

Say it .......

>>>>>VOTE YES<<<<<<<