Subject: some quotes


The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in
fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ."
~ Thomas Jefferson


"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae
been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made
them the most bloody religion that ever existed.
~ John Adams


"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of
Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in
all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility
in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
~ James Madison


"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or
confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly
to one another."
~ Benjamin Franklin


"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the
worst."
~ Thomas Paine

Is there a point you are trying to make?

I agree with the general message of these alleged quotes.

Mankind continually takes what was intended for good, and turns it into something evil to serve his own selfish gains. Nothing new here...

These "Founding Fathers" did a great thing by giving Christianity and government a fresh start - separating the corrupt bond that had formed over the centuries between "The Church" and the various ruling parties across Europe.

PP

The founding fathers did not care for Christianity or formal religions, they were actually Deists. They believed in God just not Christianity.

Jefferson was biblically correct but what is missing of course is the context. The Church of England and catholic church ruled the world in those days with an Iron fist. They fought for freedom from that type of opression. Biblically both curches and others where apostate and the clergy was elevasted above the layperson. You cannot read too much into it and certainly not spin it with modern context that they where anti religon. The net effect of their expirience was very wise that the govt. should not influence what religon it's people practice.

------------------------------------------------------------

We'll just pretend you didn't say that LT

I don't want to see another long drawn out thread where you try to convince everyone that the 'newly discovered' 60 Minute National Guard documents are real.
------------------------------------------------------------

"The net effect of their experience was very wise that the govt. should not influence what religon it's people practice"--TK

That's what most of the left doesn't understand in interpeting the Federalist Papers---The idea was (and is) 'Freedom OF Relgion'---not freedom FROM religion.

Don't pretend I didn't say it because I am correct.

a religious thesis delivered by someone against religion is ridiculous. Religious arguments always end up the same....in a name calling battle.

Ahhh Rory, Rory, Rory... It's the... ready for this... SAME FREAKIN' THING!

You are BOTH free to practice whatever religion you choose AND free from having a State-sponsored religion forced upon you.

Boy, I tell ya... them right-wing evangelical extremists sure do have a tough time grasping that concept... :p

4 Salt,

"You are BOTH free to practice whatever religion you choose "

Thats great news. The kids where concerned about the Christmas ban at their school. They have to call it the holiday season in thier class. Kinda neat being free to practice what you want.

Ya the entire name change is rediculous

However whatever you call it you are still free on your break to celebrate the Holiday if you choose.

Those on the left are so afraid that religion will be forced down their throats that they go to great lengths to make sure the majority of folks who have a faith don't get to practice it. Kind of a twisted sense of fairness. A tiny minority can shove things down the majority's throat like not calling Christmas, Christmas. What a shame.

Oh and because of a name change by a dumb ass school board now you cannot celebrate Christmas???? Give me a break and learn the true meaning of Christmas.

So... are you cancelling Christmas at home king? Ya gonna call it something else? If not, then you've just exercised your right to celebrate the holiday season however you choose.

Oh and by the way... now your kids know how Jewish kids must feel when nobody else is celebratin' Channukah.


p.s. Gramps - I don't wanna force ANYBODY to do ANYTHING... just like I don't want anyone else to force ME to do anything.


Live and let live...

Grandpa,

Twisted is as twisted does, perhaps? That is, altho I'm perplexed at calling Christmas vacation the winter holiday, that just may be what you get when you righties associate yourselves with the right wing religious whackos who would insert their religious positions in my government's Constitution. Things like Constitutional amendments prohibiting gay marriage and abortion. It's not that I'm for (or against) either of those, but I don't want my government, and certainly not my Constitution, to have any part of either, for or against.

Believe it or not, it's distasteful for me to come off sounding anti-religion, but the Christian Right (which is neither) seems so intent on blending their religious positions with U.S. law, that I feel compelled to be equally extreme and oppose any and all mixing of practically anything religious with anything government related. My contempt for the Christian Right approximates my contempt for the Taliban, for about the same reason: a lack of tolerance.

Intolerance begets intolerance. No wonder the U.S. has become so polarized.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Good post Salmo

4 Salt,
"You are BOTH free to practice whatever religion you choose"
"So... are you cancelling Christmas at home king? "

I thought fre was free and meant I did not have to go home to pracitice my religon.

You and LT missed some very important points. It's not the school or it officals calling it Christmas or forcing anyone to call it Christmas. It's the simple suggestion when the teacher asks how should we decorate , or the kids making a christmas card. that infringes upon no ones rights and it is even an opportunity for the teacher to teach about the diversity of belief or non- belief in the world. Instead the kids get a different picture.
Bottom line you do not have to discriminate to allow certain things to take place. But people could care less that Christians are offended by exlusion.

Salmo,

I challenge you to post an example of laws or regulations based on Christian priniciples passed in the last 4 years. Just one if you can?

King

Children in schools would be a lot better off practicing math in school and making Christmas cards at home.
Just my .02

LT,

Making Christmas card requires math and presents a world of possible lessons tied to geography,history,social studies,music ,literature etc.

Gotta love the leftie extremists - comparing Bush to Hitler and Christians to the Taliban...

"based on Christian priniciples "

Faith cover all religions .

Those intitatives are based on fairness not faith BTW. Faith based charities where excluded from reciving federal funds.

Try again!