GOP's Rossi wins Wash. governor recount

11/24/2004, 4:00 p.m. ET
The Associated Press



OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Republican Dino Rossi came out ahead of Democrat Christine Gregoire by just 42 votes Wednesday in the recount for Washington governor, but the Democrats are expected to demand yet another recount.


The contest was the nation's last undecided race for the governor.

The machine recount of 2.8 million ballots left Rossi just 42 votes ahead of Gregoire, the state attorney general. That makes it the closest governor's race in Washington history.

Rossi had also won the original count, but his 261-vote margin was so small it triggered an automatic recount.

The Republicans called on Gregoire to concede and not drag the state through a third count that could stretch until Christmas week or longer. But even before the last big surge of ballots was tallied, Democrats had signaled they would seek a hand recount in at least part of the state.

Rossi, 45, a self-made real estate millionaire and former state Senate budget chairman from the Seattle suburb of Sammamish, was hoping to become the first Republican since 1980 to get elected governor. He ran on a platform of change and job-creation.

Gregoire, 57, was hoping to become the state's second woman governor. She carried eight of the 39 counties, most notably the largest, King, which includes heavily Democratic Seattle. Gregoire was strongly backed by the women's movement and was best known for battling America's tobacco industry.

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Returns: http://www.vote.wa.gov

Hold On!!! King County , to no one's surprise, scrounged up yet another 1,000 uncounted votes and managed to close the gap..Their manipulative calculations were off by a few votes though leaving Rossi with a 42 vote lead. After all of their establishing the "intent" of the voters and going door to door to drum up votes and including votes that should have been thrown out they still came up short.

Next move will be to recount again by hand so they have a lot more control on engineering the results.

The Democrats want every vote to count as long as the result is in their camp. So they want to keep counting and manipulating until it comes out the way they want.

One thing is for sure this was a very close race. Trouble is the closeness was brought on by the state of King County. Hopefully any inappropriate vote manipulation will be uncovered, exposed and prosecuted.

GP: I do not think any party has a corner on hypocrisy. I firmly believe that any unlawful acts uncovered should be prosecuted, but to date I have seen none. You can bet both sides would be screaming and suing if they saw any such thing. And don't you think King County could have easily given Chris a big lead if they were crooked? Why cheat if you are going to come up 42 short?

As far as the hand recount. Do you honestly think Rossi would not have asked for one if the count had Chris in the lead by 42? I am still concerned that there is no way to hand count a ballot from the Snohomish county machines. I believe that the machine should make a paper trial that can be certified.

There are two good pieces of news here as I see it.

1. The voters are very evenly divided on this race. They were both good candidates and both talked the good talk about sport fishing. I think we win with either one.

2. If we recount it will keep whoever wins from being up and ready to go on inauguration day. That’s a good thing. Politicians do us the most good when they are NOT working.

Well Dave..I am with you on the thought that either one of these candidates would be good for sports fishing. I do , however, think that Rossi would shake up the 20 year old "good old boy network" in Olympia by getting rid of business as usual in many cases where Gregoire is a big part of the network and was Locke's hand picked successor.

As far as the voting goes we have had two counts now with the recount being monitored by hundreds on both sides. There are already legal challenges and probably will be a third count. Maybe King County will find another 1,000 votes under someones bed ...who knows.

Concerning the Snohomish County voting machines , I was told that there is , in fact, a paper back up. That system was pretty efficient I thought. Of course you have to be able to read and point your pen at the right circle. You have to insert a credit card which is imprinted with your voter signature before voting can take place. After you vote all your votes are displayed on the screen so you can review them and make any changes you want to...Again, you have to be able to read and follow directions. On the paper ballots those who could not read or follow simple directions had their votes interpretted in some cases by county officials. That is the part I object to. Determining voter intent allows for too much room to cheat. I also object to redoing things over and over until you get the result you want. Laws are pushed through like that , stadiums were built like that etc etc...

Hopefully it will be over soon but don't count on it.

GP: It is my understanding that Snohomish county machines do not produce a pare trail. There are machines that actually produce a ballot after the voter has voted. That ballot is then kept as a record. I do not believe Snohomish County has that type of system.

I do know that on Election Day Snohomish County admitted that some machines were screwing up. The voter would push the button for one candidate and it registered for another. With a 42 vote margin such mistakes can sway an election. Rossi may have won by way more than we think, since Snohomish County went for him.

I believe every vote should count. Regarding the recounts that you seem skeptical of there were republican and democrat observers at the recount stations. In fact the Republicans brought t in a bunch of Washington D.C. attorneys. To date the only ones suing anyone are the republicans, and I don’t blame them I would too.

I remember the republicans saying they would ask for a recount if the machine count went the wrong way, so why is it now wrong for Chris to ask for one. I simply can’t imagine any candidate not asking for a recount under the circumstances.

I ask you again, would you want a recount if Chris were now in the lead with 42 votes?

We already had a recount.....How many recounts is enough? 3? 4? 5? I would say that with all the scrutiny from both camps one recount should have been enough.

Would you want a recount if Chris was leading by 42 votes?

I think Chris should concede the election. If Dino was behind by 42 votes I would recommend he concede just like Slade Gorton did four years ago. Say there is a second recount paid for by the Democrates and Chris wins by one vote. Is Dino and the Republicans then obligated to pay for a third recount? Where does it end? I feel that after one tax payer paid recount any election should be final. After that every precinct knows how many votes need to be made up to help a candidate and is thus very ripe for some funny business.

I think Washington does a pretty good job at elections and I trust the results. One of my neghbors is an election volunteer and I know she is more concerned with the process than the politics. I would guess that if two of us, a Republican and a Democrate, got together and hand recounted all of the votes we would come up with a result that is + or - about five votes from where we are today.

Let's not guess. In fact, there will be a democrat and a republican wathcing the recount, and when it's done we will know for sure. As I undersatnd it, our election laws a pretty clear, as to who can ask for a recount. I do not beleive either cantidate can ask for a second hand count. I noticed in todays paper that the republicans said they would have asked for a reocung had the numbers been reveresd.

sonics won by 9 last night. if you asked cg that would be a tie i guess?

How about the best 1 outa 3.I think thats what Gregoire is counting on.I predict that she,or her party will ask for a hand recount.But it will be limited to those counties that favor democrats.Of course that is at their expense.But if she pulls ahead by even 1 vote it is my understanding that the taxpayers pay for a hand recount of the rest of the state.Costing us taxpayers hundreds of thousands of $ more.

That is correct...The dems will only want a recount in King County where they control the process and where most voters favor Dems. If Gregoire is able to pull off a lead in this second select recount the sec of state is obligated by law to call for a statewide hand recount of all counties at the txpayers expenses and I think at the end of that the results are final with no more recounts possible. The parties could sue like they are already are though.

Whatever happens this sure shows off our partisanship and our flawed system of voting. I guess no matter how we do it the oppostion party will complain. Maybe at this point Rossi and Gregoire should simply flip a coin.

I think either side would request the recount with a 42 vote margin. The end is in sight, at least for the recounts, in that the next one will be the final one. Lawyers and courts however could drag out the results.

I'm not sure that the Dems will request King County for the recount. There are 14 counties that use punchcard ballotting for absentees. My boss is in one of them. He said that 75% of his votes had "hanging chads" that he had to remove. If Gregoire wants to make up those 42 votes, she may want to choose one of those counties - say Thurston County. BTW - our state actually has a definition of when a hanging chad counts and when it doesn't. If two sides are detached, the vote counts.

I find it amusing that the GOP has focused so much attention on King Co. They and their shills (KVI most prominently) have screamed about King Co. divining the voters intent. They seemed to have no problem having Pierce, Snohomish, Spokane and other counties that favored Rossi doing exactly the same thing. Dave is correct, if you try to find moral clarity and certainty from the Political Parties in this process, I have some waterfront property I'd like to sell you. Both sides are interested in only one thing, getting their candidate certified as the winner.

Lawyers, guns and money.
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Eddie,

The point Carlson (if that's who you were referencing @ KVI) was making is that Rossi has won both counts fair and square (despite democratic efforts to 'find' votes) and the Gregoire camp has made no claim of fraud or error (human or mechanical) in the vote count--on what basis other than the best of five does she justify a recount?

Gobble-gobble

Rory, you might want to check out this link - since it didn't fit Carlson's thesis, he convieniently didn't speak of this.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/links/demletter.pdf

I certainly do not know if the contentions outlined in this letter are true, but they deserve to see the light of day.

So two teams play four quarters of football and tie. So they go into overtime and whoever scores wins. So Team "A" scores with a safety and is awarded the game by two points. Team "B" wants to do it over because , after all, Team "A" won by too small a margin to be fair. Only two points. A second overtime is the only fair thing to do isn't it? Hell if you lost by only two points wouldn't you demand another overtime>?

Grandpa,

I think you already know that the "demand" is only relevant if it comports with applicable regulations. The regulations for scoring and certifying a football game are different than for certifying a state election. If football regulations allowed for additional playing time when the score is close at the end of regulation time, or the first overtime, then your suggestion has merit.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

You are absolutely right Salmo...I guess I was pointing to the logic that said a recount was warranted because of the slim lead by Rossi. Actually the recount parameters are spelled out quite well. It would have been nice if the margin was much higher.

What's with all this sniveling about a recount.... Unless I am mistaken, the new governor is not even going to be inagurated until some time in January. Until there is a stable, legitimate balot count, we don't have a valid election. Am I missing something.....??? The real question is why shouldn't there be a recount when the margin changed so dramatically....????

I still think she should have conceded. I for one trust machines more than I trust people. Just the simple fact of human error will be over 42 votes. If she wins by one vote will anybody consider her the rightful Governor? Polls already say 65% of Washingtonians consider Dino the Gov. The Sec. of State has already certified him as Gov. elect. This all just seems silly to me. We have a long way to go concerning voting processess in this country. This state has been doing this since 1889 so would think our election laws would be as clear as a football game. We don't have a tie in a football game. Send the lawyers to court to decide do we use a collage format? How about a pro format? I think team A should only play defense. Why not just have a kick-off? We accept the results of a football game because the rules are set and understood. That is not the case here. This county that county, who's paying and where do we send the check? It just seems silly to me.

The good news is it's now become a win win situation as far as I'm concerned. Either we will have an effective Rossi or an ineffective Gregoire! Both work for me.

Well the number of lawsuits filed is a tie. 1-1. Who thinks it will end with that score?

An interersting note is that if the initial machine count had arrived at the 42 vote difference a hand count would have been mandatory under our law.

This just aint passing the stink test.

The first thing that needs to be changed is when a County is finished with their count it should go under lock and key until all Counties are ready to release the results at the same time. King Co. found 573 ballots today. I'm not a math expert but I would guess that is just enough to make up the 123 votes.

Here's the story http://www.kirotv.com/politics/3999346/detail.html

Not a real great way for either candidate to start their Governorship!

This brings me to one question. Does anybody really care who the next Governor is anymore???

What did Yogi Berra say, it ant over till it's over!

Maybe after a year in courts, ah maybe?

Rossi doesn't have a chance...

Wednesday, Dec. 15, 2004 7:15 a.m. EST


Wash State Sec'y: Vote Find Is Suspicious


The discovery late Monday of 561 votes in the ongoing Washington state governor's race had both state and GOP officials crying foul yesterday, with Secretary of State Sam Reed saying that vote fraud is a possibility.


Asked if he thought the 11th-hour vote find could be fraudulent, Reed told KTTH Seattle radio host Mike Siegel, "You want to look at that, just because it's so late in the process and the impact it could have on the outcome of this race."

Washington state is currently undergoing its second ballot recount in a race in which Republican Dino Rossi won the initial election by 261 votes over Democrat Christine Gregoire. A machine recount narrowed Rossi's victory margin to 42 votes.

Since the mystery votes were discovered in heavily Democratic King County, state election officials of both parties expect their inclusion would tip the race for Gregoire.

The Washington State Supreme Court ruled yesterday that individual canvassing boards were not required to review votes that were initially discarded because of flaws. But the finding did not affect the 561-vote find.

Secretary of State Reed was critical of King County election officials, telling Siegel that the 11th-hour discovery "strains credibility. Either it is just horrible incompetence ... or something else is going on."

"[People] get very suspicious when, as Rossi pulls ahead, all of a sudden these ballots show up that could easily switch the lead," he added. "I think for the sake of voter trust and competence we're going to have to have a thorough investigation."

King County Director of Elections Dean Logan disagreed.

"I don't think there's any evidence or speculation that fraud has taken place," Logan told Siegel. "There's a clear record of what these ballots are and where they came from."

Logan insisted that the mystery votes were the product of an honest mistake, saying they had been erroneously grouped with ballots that were unsigned or had signatures that didn't match.

Washington State Republican chairman Chris Vance wasn't persuaded by Logan's arguments.

Following Logan on Siegel's broadcast, Vance said, "From where we sit, it's impossible to tell whether this is incompetence or fraud. They look the same from the outside. If you were going to steal the election, the way you do it is to, at the very end, find a bunch of votes."

Vance noted: "This is about the fifth time that votes have been found in King County and Logan always has an explanation for it. But there's just no way for us to know."

Guys, let me offer a different perspective. Let's look at Kitsap County. They have reported an additional 161 votes in the manual recount than in the first machine recount. If you take 161 and apply the percentage of that number to the total vote in Kitsap County and then apply that percentage to King County you end up with King County reporting 1204 additional votes in this recount. If you look at Franklin County, you would have King Co. reporting an additional 1382 votes. My point is - nobody is looking at these other counties (because they are Rossi counties???). I have come to the conclusion that both parties are attempting to steal this election. Because the GOP has more counties to spread the fraud across, they are doing it with more style. As long as they can keep our attention focused on King Co., they win.

Having said that, I hope that Rossi does win this count, if not, the lawsuits filed will keep a number of lawyers in business for a very long time. And we seriously need to look at election reform. I think we could count this race 100 times and never come up with the same exact result.

I agree Eddie. I don't have a problem if Rossi wins, I just want the votes counted properly. It sounds to me like many Republicans don't really know if these miscounts or additional votes are fraudulent, their just spinning the facts to drive their desired outcome.