i thought for a minute this thread was going to come back around when salty posted that pic....sadly, it looks doomed.

Never understood the Pam thing just a Hep C loser being passed from has been wanna be rocker to has been rocker.

Thanks for the pre- pumped up Pam photo...

We didn't expect you to. It's a guy thing.

I thought a none christian was a catholic woman who wears a habit. You know like the flying none

[ Never understood the Pam thing We didn't expect you to. It's a guy thing.

Dans,

I have seen those guys we used to laugh at them hitting on our women.
I never understood the porn or the lusting after starlets thing. The real thing was so much more fun. But if I looked like like some of you guys I might

Then where does trying to convert everyone else come into play?

Cupo,

Thats in the bible.

"Then where does trying to convert everyone else come into play?"

That is just some people taking things a little too far. You get a few in every crowd...

The Bible teaches that the job of the Christian is the share the Gospel (the good news). We can't 'convert' someone - the Bible is clear in that only God can change a person's willing heart. Some prepare the ground, some plant the seed, God reaps the harvest....

Cupo,

Would you judge all fisherman based on the actions of a few or even a bunch. If you go down to the Snohomish River in Sept. about all you will find is snaggers and liners. Does that mean all fisherman are less than ethical? If they told you "it's ok everyone does it" would you research the facts and draw your own conclusions. Why is it different for fishing than religion? Why do few research the facts and draw their own conclusions vs. branding the whole lot? I was there once and I can tell you it's because it's easier than finding out for yourself.

It depends. Would the snaggers be coming to my house to get me to join them in their snagger ways? Would they tell me I'm going to hell because I don't snag?

Cupo,

I live behind a big gate now so I do not have to go through it. But before the Jehovahs and the Mormons would make the long trek up the drive. I would be polite and ask them to leave and if they persisted all bets were off on what I would say or do It amazes me but some churches actually teach it.

The cool thing about it all is that we can sin our arses off, then become a baptised Catholic on our deathbed, and make it into heaven!

I like all of the mass murderers who pray to Jesus, like the two women put to death in the past few years. Kinda funny how someone can create so much carnage, then convert, and they are saved. Doesn't anybody else find this a bit disturbing?

Heck, all that those Catholic priests had to do was repent, say a few "Hail Marys", move to a new town, and everything was better. Simple enough. Gotta love the simplicity of it all.

Well, you can hope you die a slow death so you can make a last minute choice if you want. Your call...

The preists - God makes it clear that he has a special place in Hell reserved for those who would harm children. Is that something they can be forgivin for? I'm glad I"m not the final judge of their hearts... They should also face the harshest criminal prosecution we can throw at them...

As for those 'death row' conversions of mass murderer types - again, only God can judge a man's (woman's) heart. His judgement is perfect, so if I run into one of them in Heaven, i may be surprised, but I wouldn't second guess His judgement...

Again, you seem to like to pick apart Christianity by the lowest common denominator and those odd situations and persons who makes the whole religion look bad. For any bad example you can provide, I could quickly come up with 10 or more great things Christianity and individual Christians have done for humanity - from running orphanages in 3rd world countries, running homeless shelters and food banks in America, voluteering their time as doctors and nurses to help AIDs, famine, and other victims around the world. We don't see that on the news every night, but it goes on day to day - quietly most of the time - because most are not out to glorify themselves, but do the work God has called them to....

" but it goes on day to day - quietly most of the time - because most are not out to glorify themselves"

Precisely the point some of us are trying to make. Why wear it on your sleeve and brag about it to the point that it makes people wonder who exactly you're trying to convince; you or them?

**The terms "you" and derivatives thereof are used in the generic sense and are not an accusation towards any one person specifically.

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That plan would be great if you knew the day and hour you were going to die.

Many agnostics also volunteer our time, helping out in the Red Cross, the United Way, and a numerous other beneficial organizations, just because we don't believe doesn't mean that we are not good people. I am a good person, sharing what I have with others freely, not because I have to, because I want to. I am just pointing out the irony of the situation.

I think agnostics are actually more open minded than those who participate in an organized religion. I can take the teachings of a number of different religions, take the lessons taught to heart, and be a good human. I mean, who can't dig that crazy blue Shiva in the Hindu religion? He is one figure that I would like to study more.

Who wrote the old testament, the new testament (heck, we should just change a few things here to liven it up a bit), the book of Mormon, the Torah, and the Koran?

Don't these books all teach similar beliefs to a certain extent with similar examples being given throughout each text? Why the need for all of these different religions? I'll tell you why. Because each religion , originally societies (think Sunni, Shiite, etc in the Muslim faith, or the different factions within the Jewish religion, or the different factions in Christianity), needed to prove how they were superior to others. It continues today. Religion is constantly used as a means to divide people.

Just one man's observations. I see it misused too often to be a believer myself. I am open to it, but I am also a logical thinker. "Just believe" doesn't work in math, or science. I won't even begin to go into evolution.

"Just believe" doesn't work in math, or science. I won't even begin to go into evolution."

Sure it does. I bet you believe in more scientific theory than you do scientific fact. In fact I bet you cannot even tell the difference most of the time because by the time it gets to you it has been translated by so many people theory becomes fact.

Think about the just believe part beyond the surface and relate it back to the complete work of the bible. What you end up with is an act of faith that there is more to life than what you will expierience in the body you occupy today.

"Just believe" doesn't work in math, or science."

Doesn't work with me either. I'm known by my peers at work and when I was in school \ university as a clear and logical thinker. My approach to Christianity and my peronsal faith is based on pure faith at the core, but also a life of examination, observation, research, and personal experience.

"Why the need for all of these different religions? "

Some philosophers have suggested that there is such a strong drive in most people toward identifying with a higher power - that it could be considered evidence that we were created this way. The Bible also has many references to people being created with a natural desire to seek out God. I'm sure you'll dismiss this notion - but you can't throw out the premise easily if you are really being open minded...

"I'll tell you why. Because each religion , originally societies (think Sunni, Shiite, etc in the Muslim faith, or the different factions within the Jewish religion, or the different factions in Christianity), needed to prove how they were superior to others."

Thanks for sharing your opinion on this, but I don't agree.

" It continues today. Religion is constantly used as a means to divide people."

Religion does divide. But it can also draw together. Just because there is divisiveness, it does not mean that was the original purpose - but simply an outcome or side effect (often because of the people who misuse or misunderstand it).

Switching this up a little, most Christians feel that Christianity is essentially an 'anti-religion'. Jesus came to shake up the established Jewish religion, with all of it's corruption, hierarchy, religion for the sake of religion, religion for the use of dividing, etc. Religion was (and still is for many) a way for men to 'prove their worthiness' to God... Jesus revealed that attitude as hogwash - as all men are sinners, and no matter how hard we work and try to be all 'religious', we are just putting up smoke and mirrors.

The Old Testament is used by Christians in part as a case study of how 'religion' is a failure when it comes to gaining a relationship with God. Christians feel that Jesus is the answer\solution to 'religion'.

One of my favorite parts of the Bible is the story of Stephan the Martyr in the beginning of the book of Luke. He provides and great summary to the 'religious leaders' of the time of how far off they are and how they are\were so blinded by 'religion' that they didn't even realize when they killed their own Messiah... He was immediately stoned to death for this 'outrage' as the (soon to be) apostle Paul (Saul) looked on in approval (he was a prominent Jewish leader who lead the bloody charge against early Christians before God changed his heart and he became one of the very people he was earlier persecuting)...

Of course from the outside looking in - we are all lumped together as the 'religious', but I'm hoping you are open minded enough to try to understand my perspective.