It's OK to have an opinion as long as it matches ours. But we have to swallow them teaching that it is OK for Sally to have two mom's?

Hutch's kids go to school with mine. He is a fun guy to talk with. Played for the hawks way back when.

Tuesday, June 7, 2005

Teachers union objects to Hutcherson's church on school grounds
Antioch pastor should find new meeting place, leader says

By JOHN IWASAKI
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

About 3,500 people regularly attend Sunday services at Antioch Bible Church, making it one of the larger congregations in the Seattle area, but the church doesn't have a permanent home.

For the past six years, Antioch has met at Lake Washington High School in Kirkland, an arrangement that keeps the church out of mortgage debt and provides the Lake Washington School District with about $140,000 in annual rental income.

But the teachers union wants to end that relationship, saying the district shouldn't associate with the Rev. Ken Hutcherson, Antioch's outspoken pastor, who claimed credit for Microsoft's former opposition to a gay rights bill in the state Legislature.

The union leadership says Hutcherson's presence at Lake Washington High implies that his beliefs are condoned by the district, goes against the district's human dignity policy, brings unwanted attention to the school and promotes intolerance.

"The Lake Washington Education Association strongly condemns the bigoted views of Dr. Ken Hutcherson," union President Kevin Teeley wrote in the organization's recent newsletter.

While conceding that Antioch has the legal right to meet at the high school, Teeley called for public pressure to force Hutcherson off campus. Teeley has received a mixed response from his 1,500-member union.

Hutcherson is unequivocal. Because Teeley, who is openly gay, has called the pastor a bigot, "Can't I say he's the prejudiced one?" Hutcherson asked.

Teeley said his views are based on union policies and have nothing to do with his sexual orientation.

Lake Washington Superintendent Don Saul said the district has received about 12 to 15 letters questioning the district's position "in what they characterize as an 'environment of discrimination.' "



The district response is that free-speech rights control the issue.

"It comes down to almost an all-or-nothing situation, based on First Amendment jurisprudence," Saul said. "If we rent a facility for the use of a church, we can't typically restrict access to another group with which we have disagreements (over) the point of view they're expressing."

More than 10 churches rent district facilities, said Barbara Posthumus, the district's business services coordinator. Because of complaints about Antioch, the district is reviewing its rental policy, she said.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington receives about two complaints per year regarding a church's use of public schools.

State law requires school districts to make their facilities available to community groups, including religious organizations, when the facilities are not being used for school-related activities or programs.

Lake Washington gives top priority to school-sponsored activities, then to cities and non-profit youth organizations within the district. Non-profit adult organizations, including churches, have fourth priority. The district's policy states that authorization of facility use should not be considered an endorsement of the renter or its purposes.

The district bases its rental fee on a formula that considers space, time, utilities and custodial services. Antioch uses most of Lake Washington High for two Sunday services and pays $10,800 per month, or $13,500 for months with five Sundays. Besides the gymnasium, the church uses about 30 classrooms for Sunday school, a nursery and other activities.

Former Lake Washington High librarian Lee Bates, now at Inglewood Junior High, addressed the school board last night, upset at the treatment of a group of gay rights supporters who visited Antioch.

The activists were told they would have to sit in a separate section unless they removed their rainbow armbands. The visitors eventually chose to remove their armbands and sat wherever they wanted.

"It is not about the pastor's beliefs but his treatment of people that is in question," said Bates, husband of former Lake Washington Superintendent Karen Bates.

He cited the district's human dignity and harassment policies, which encourage respect and non-harassment of people, regardless of their sexual orientation, among other differences or characteristics.

In an earlier interview, School Board President Doug Eglington said the dignity policy pertains to how the district operates and to its employees, students and stakeholders.

"We don't feel we have the reach" to tell other organizations how to conduct themselves, he said. "We'd rather err on the side of allowing the community to use the spaces to the extent possible," he said.

Several Lake Washington High teachers said they feel like they can't criticize Antioch's presence because principal Mark Robertson attends the church.

Hutcherson said that if Antioch's relationship ever became detrimental to the school, "Mark would be the first to ask us to move. That's the kind of responsibility I expect from him."

Hey, as long as they let the Satanists meet there, too, I have no problem.

Do you?

I agree TK that the school board should stay out of trying to "micromanage" which types of churches use their facility. A good friend of mine goes to that church and they are trying to prevent taking on a large building fund by using the school.

They should let whatever group meet in the schools that wants too. It brings in income which our schools badly need. Also the pastor had the right to tell those protesters to remove their armbands, it was his choice and I guess many in his flock felt the same way. I actually found it more offensive that they would choose to protest during church, is there no respect left anymore?

That's just dripping with hypocritical irony.

Please explain yourself Gh, Wheres the hypocrytical irony. Last i checked churches were private organizations and had the right to uphold their own beliefs. In my family church is pretty important part of its make up and is treated with respect. I personally would be very offended if any group came in and protested in our church.

It wouldn't do any good to try and explain. Your above comments imply that you might not have been paying attention while sitting in your "private organization."

So your saying having a moral center of right and wrong is hypocrytical?
Or we should accept everything, so next time you see guys snagging or flossing don't condem them they are just doing what they tnink is right.

Won't work; don't even try. You're in the same league as bubble-boy and Krusty with backwards logic to boot.

I find the intolerence that some religions call morals offensive.
How many people do you think have been killed in the name of God?

Why single that one out BW. ?

------------------------------------------------------------

Williamtheriveroutlaw,

When Klinger (aka goharley) lectures you about morality, logic and your backward thinking because you say you believe in God and the Bible's teachings, just keep in mind that he's said that one of his favorite things to do every year is to prance around in a black leather skirt at the Solstice parade in Fremont.

To each his own.

"To each his own".

That is exactly right RB you should try and actually practice it.


TK, just the first one that came to mind.

Isn't there something in the Bible that says something like

"Love thy neighbor" I seem to have read that somewhere before.

BW,

Yes that is in there but as usual people use it without context both religous and non to make thier point. It does not work that way. There are prescribed rules for biblical interpretaion. You do not have to love they neighbor for many reason. There is a big difference between kill and murder. Please show me how Chritians are killing in the name of god today in this life. Otherwise your point cannot be relevant.

Tk, There was a very interesting show on the Discovery channel a couple Months ago about Europe's take on the war in Iraq. And God played into it quite a bit. Right or wrong makes no difference, seems that way to them.

One main reason are statements by our leaders that start with comments like," with Gods help". Our own President has used that phrase on occasion.

This may seem ridicules to some but really it's not. I don't know how much you have travled over seas but in countrys like France, and some others you will never hear comments like that made by thier leaders. You will not see students wareing crosses or other religous symbles of any kind in schools. Seperation of church and state are strictly enforced over there.

Therefore my statement was totaly relivent, in thier eyes we are killing in the name of God right now.


And I'm not going to get into a debate over interpitation of the Bible with you. I know there will be some wise cracks made here but I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic school, and was an alterboy also. I have studied the Bible quite a bit. Some people want to take every word or phrase exactly as written. Maybe more people should look of the word "parable". One difference with me is I don't blow off anyone who dosn't belive in what I do. Unlike some here.

Krusty, you'll go to Hell for lieing.

BW - the interpretation of the Bible thing; Elvis just throws that around a lot in his endeavor to sound educated. The science is actually "hermeneutics" and pertains to all historical text. If you simply do a search on "interpreting the Bible" you'll get a different version and methodolgy from every sectarian whacko out there. His constant claim that there are "prescribed rules" is full of chyt. But then it is Elvis after all.

Thanks Harley it's nice of you to prove your ignorance for all of us on such a regular basis.

The rules of biblical interpretation are estabilshed by the Biblical research society and Dr. David L. Cooper first proposed them. They are non denominational and used by most biblical scholars.

BW it does not matter how you where raised if you do not use the 4 basic rules of biblical interpretatiuon then you are using a passage out of context.

If you say so TK.

The rules of biblical interpretation are estabilshed by the Biblical research society and Dr. David L. Cooper first proposed them. They are non denominational and used by most biblical scholars.


Now show me some proof with refences (other than yourself).

On another note, my son deploys to Afganistan for his third tour tomorrow, so I may not get back to this for a while.

BW,

What kind of proof?

BW -
The guy that is somewhat considered the "father" of Bible interpretation, or Scriptual hermeneutics is Friedrich Daniel Ernst Schleiermacher (1768-1834).

As I said earlier, google "Bible interpretation rules" and you'll come away with many different philosophies and views. Cooper's is just another one.

BTW, good luck to your son. Really sucks to see guys going on their second and third tours over there considering the war is barely two years old. Compare that to Vietnam that lasted 10 years and it was very uncommon to do more than one tour.