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#278762 - 07/15/05 07:16 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
“again you are not reading what I posted.”

Here is what you said:

"are you seriously debating whether or not Bush has been bad for ... your sport fisheries? Its not a partisan issue, its fact."

I just asked you to show me a specific impact on YOUR SPORT FISHERY. Can’t do it, can ya….


“overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

Is this your overwhelming evidence??

“My gramps believes that crap Phish. “

Oh, and some poll you cut and pasted from… I’m overwhelmed with the evidence ;\)



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#278763 - 07/15/05 07:23 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
a personal account and a posted article is about as good as evidence as your gonna get over the net. Unfortunately i cannot take you by your hockey helmet and drag you over to some goober who can whisper in your ear that he believes that crap, but people do believe it.

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#278764 - 07/15/05 07:30 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
"The federal government only spends about a penny per day per U.S. resident to address this problem, but the Bush administration has asked Congress to slash clean water measures by more than $500 million in the coming year. "

"America’s Most Endangered Rivers of 2005"

"#4 Skykomish River (WA)
Runaway development threatens to foul the clear waters of the Skykomish River, known for its fishing and other outdoor activities, working farms, forests, and rural quality of life.
"

There ya go. He asks for cuts in a program designed to protect my fishery. This is a direct impact to my personal fishery. Goodnight. Sleeptight.

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#278765 - 07/15/05 07:40 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by Chives:

Aunty.... I worked for the USGS and the Earth and Space Science, and Oceanography departments at the UW. I worked very closely with many scientists from many diffferent economic social and political backgrounds on a daily basis. These are the people who are experts on your local rivers, fisheries, ocean, air, etc and they All expressed their unsolicited extreme displeasure for Bush's environmental policies, and his contempt for science in general.

------------------------------------------------------------

Just out of curiousity, how many of these objective non-partisan UW scientists have pony tails, drive Suburu Stationwagons and think Ron Sims is a great King County Executive? \:D
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#278766 - 07/15/05 07:41 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
100% Rory, and they are all lesbian anarchists as well!

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#278768 - 07/15/05 07:51 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
So are all scientists a buncha liberals out to get Bush? Is that really what you all believe?
Do you believe they planted dinosaur bones to make Jeebus look bad?

What abot non-american scientists? surely they are above partisan Bush bashing? or does your disdain for all things foreign allow you to dismiss their research as well?
Are you alllike really religious types or something? Intelligent design proponents?
is that what this is all about? Science is partisan and non-objective to you all?

Im not really surprised on this board to find that out but it is a wee bit depressing.

Yes all scientists are only doing their reserach so they can make Bush look bad, its true. Now you can all go safely back to your bibles secure in the knowledge theat the earth is only a couple thousand years old, and we sprang from ash..

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#278769 - 07/15/05 07:51 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
I worked for the USGS and the Earth and Space Science, and Oceanography departments at the UW. I worked very closely with many scientists from many diffferent economic social and political backgrounds on a daily basis. These are the people who are experts on your local rivers, fisheries, ocean, air, etc and they All expressed their unsolicited extreme displeasure for Bush's environmental policies, and his contempt for science in general.

I am sure there are fish experts here, and Im sure people like Phish are eager to ignore them or discount what they say as liberal propaganda to "put dumbya in a bad light"."

Chives ,

These scientist do not have to balance the needs of the majority with those of the minority. So they can have a idealistic view and preach from up on high from an ivory tower. The scientist think the avg. person would be better of with wild fish. When in reality the Avg. person could care less. There is more to this country than the NW. It is proven by the population exansion and the lifestyles of the avg. person here and everywhere. People are children they think they can have it both ways.

I bet all the people ,roads, homes, business' and industries on the west coast have killed more fish and will continue to kill more fish than any Bush backed environmental policy?

How many of these bear your foot print either directly or indirectly Chives?

How many of these scientist have purchased and set asaide5 acres of riparian habitat ? How about you? Nothing like walking the talk.
How many of these scientist do not use electricity or take a dump in a toilet that uses water? More walking the talk.

Me personally. I have over 5 acres set aside on a class III stream. Completely restored the riparian habitat with my own two hands. I would like to see all development on any river system removed regardless of impact on society. I would like to meet a few scientist 's that walk thier talk and not expect others to do what they themselves do not do.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278770 - 07/15/05 07:56 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
again with the "if you drive a car you have no right to complain about environmental abuse"

I have not bought land (cant afford it).
You support the war, have you enlisted yet?

Its the same argument and its equally ridiculous from both sides.

I dont have to do a damned thing positive for the environment to be upset about someone doing something that will harm it.

what have you done to walk the talk? put a yellow ribbon on your pickup truck?

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#278771 - 07/15/05 08:08 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
I have not bought land (cant afford it).

Sure you can it's just not a priority but *****ing about what others do is.


You support the war, have you enlisted yet?

It is not the same argument because there is no draft. The people fighting the war chose to be in that profession. Lefties forget this when they rehash vietnam era arguements.

You voted to send a fireman out or a police man out to risk their life. Are you a cop or a fireman?

I dont have to do a damned thing positive for the environment to be upset about someone doing something that will harm it.

No you do not but your opinion does not carry much weight with those that have done something.

Until you do something to mitigate your share of the responsibility you are just *****ing .
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278773 - 07/15/05 08:18 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
"I have not bought land (cant afford it).

Sure you can it's just not a priority but *****ing about what others do is."

-You know all about me? Know what i can afford? You dont know jack about me, what i can afford, or what I do or have done. You can sit there and grandly proclaim how great the war is whle others die, yet i cannot question environmental abuse because i have not purchased land? you are an idiot.

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#278774 - 07/15/05 08:38 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
I totally disagree with the bulk of his views but at least he's reasonably coherent at times.
:D At times? Man, I gotta keep my eyes open.

Rory is just pissed that dudes with pony tails are smarter than him. He thinks things like physics and chemistry and biology are enemies of his. He'll tell you about it after he drives home, turns on his electric lights, takes his blood pressure medicine, and eats his genetically engineered food for dinner.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#278775 - 07/18/05 02:33 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Chives,
You know all about me? Know what i can afford? You dont know jack about me, what i can afford.

If it that important to you you would find a way. Maybe walk to work instead of drive, Not drink beer, soda, lattes etc. Live in a small studio apartment with 10 members of your extended family. ;\) So where does it really rank in your life? Be truthful? Actions always betray liberals talk. \:D
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278776 - 07/18/05 02:58 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
der duh...

enlist Rambo and then you may lecture me all you want about my actions betraying my talk.

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#278777 - 07/18/05 03:10 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
That is a sophist dodge at best. It has never been a requirement to have an opinion in this country. Using your logic you would have to volunteer because your freedom today is based on people fighting in the past. Your right to your opinion was purchased with someones blood. Again the actions betray the mouth. Would it not be easier to just confess that you are not willing to walk the talk Re: saving the fish?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278778 - 07/18/05 03:26 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
"That is a sophist dodge at best. It has never been a requirement to have an opinion in this country."

exactly my point! are you really so dense that you cannot see it is the exact same argument?

I dont not have to own land to be concerned about environmental issues, anymore than you have to enlist to support the war.

I dont want to insult you so Im gonna just go away now because if you cannot grasp that or refuse to ...aint no point talkin to you.

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#278779 - 07/18/05 04:20 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Chives,

Look back a few post doorknob I agreed with you long ago. I however also said people that do walk the talk do not think that much of the mouth runners. Now if I was biaotching about the war and and a serviceman took umbrage to it I would have to respect his opinion more. But I have more respect and class than to ***** or cheerlead to them. I do not cheerlead this war and 100% would have liked to avoid it. I just do not see how that was realistically possible.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278780 - 07/18/05 06:37 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Chives Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 156
haha.....yeah sure you agreed with me, whatever you say.

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#278781 - 07/18/05 07:19 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
" dont have to do a damned thing positive for the environment to be upset about someone doing something that will harm it.

No you do not but your opinion does not carry much weight with those that have done something.

Until you do something to mitigate your share of the responsibility you are just *****ing .

Here you go negro ;\)
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#278782 - 07/18/05 07:51 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13563
TK,

Uhm, since the thread's now 4 pages long, maybe this drift isn't too far off.

You'd give a military person's opinion of the war in Iraq more weight simply because they are in the military, and therefore "walking the talk?"

Makes no sense whatever to me. I respect a military person for his or her service to our country, but his or her opinion of the war has no relevance to me. They are no more likely to be better informed, and just as likely to be misinformed, or just as likely to lack critical analytical skills as other people.

It makes more sense to me to reserve my respect for opinions about the war to those who are better or best informed and share values similar to mine. Same as I reserve my respect for opinions about environment to those who are well informed and share values similar to mine. Heck, a hayseed can walk the talk, as you say. That is, he may be in the military or may care for a riparian zone as you claim to do, but he could also be an intellectual desert, void of informed and well-reasoned opinion. It makes sense only to respect that which is deserving of respect, that is, actions of value, as just described, or opinions of value, independent of whether the war promoter/dissenter is in the military, and independent of whether the environmental supporter/degrader sets aside land or not. Not everyone who believes they have "set aside" a piece of land is preserving a piece of paradise, laudible as such an action is.

It seems to me you're confusing respect for opinions with respect for actions, and clearly, they ain't the same thing.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#278783 - 07/18/05 10:39 PM Re: Its Official-Rove/Bush are traitors
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:08 p.m. EDT

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/17/171214.shtml


The Uranium Joe Wilson Didn't Mention
------------------------------------------------------------

By April 2003, when the U.S. invaded Iraq, Saddam Hussein had stockpiled 500 tons of yellowcake uranium at his al Tuwaitha nuclear weapons development plant south of Baghdad.

That intriguing little detail is almost never mentioned by the big media, who prefer to chant the mantra "Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction" while echoing Joseph Wilson's claim that "Bush lied" about Iraq seeking more of the nuclear material in Niger.

The media's decision to put the Wilson-Plame affair back on the front burner, however, may turn out to be a blessing in disguise for President Bush - giving his administration a chance to resurrect an important debate they conceded far too easily about the weapons of mass destruction threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

First, the facts - from a reliable critic of the White House, the New York Times, which covered the story long after the paper announced it was tightening its standards on WMD news out of Iraq.

"The United States has informed an international agency that oversees nuclear materials that it intends to move hundreds of tons of uranium from a sealed repository south of Baghdad to a more secure place outside Iraq," the paper announced in a little-noticed May 2004 report.

"The repository, at Tuwaitha, a centerpiece of Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program until it was largely shut down after the first Persian Gulf war in 1991, holds more than 500 tons of uranium," the paper revealed, before insisting: "None of it [is] enriched enough to be used directly in a nuclear weapon."

Well, almost none.

The Times went on to report that amidst Saddam's yellowcake stockpile, U.S. weapons inspectors found "some 1.8 tons" that they "classified as low-enriched uranium."

The paper conceded that while Saddam's nearly 2 tons of partially enriched uranium was "a more potent form" of the nuclear fuel, it was "still not sufficient for a weapon."

Consulted about the low-enriched uranium discovery, however, Ivan Oelrich, a physicist at the Federation of American Scientists, told the Associated Press that if it was of the 3 percent to 5 percent level of enrichment common in fuel for commercial power reactors, the 1.8 tons could be used to produce enough highly enriched uranium to make a single nuclear bomb.

And Thomas B. Cochran, director of the nuclear program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, told the Times that the low-enriched uranium could be useful to a nation with nuclear ambitions.

"A country like Iran could convert that into weapons-grade material with a lot fewer centrifuges than would be required with natural uranium," he explained.

Luckily, Iraq didn't have even the small number of centrifuges necessary to get the job done.

Or did it?

The physicist tapped by Saddam to run his centrifuge program says that after the first Gulf War, the program was largely dismantled. But it wasn't destroyed.

In fact, according to what he wrote in his 2004 book, "The Bomb in My Garden," Dr. Mahdi Obeidi told U.S. interrogators: "Saddam kept funding the IAEC [Iraq Atomic Energy Commission] from 1991 ... until the war in 2003."

"I was developing the centrifuge for the weapons" right through 1997, he revealed.

And after that, Dr. Obeidi said, Saddam ordered him under penalty of death to keep the technology available to resume Iraq's nuke program at a moment's notice.

Dr. Obeidi said he buried "the full set of blueprints, designs - everything to restart the centrifuge program - along with some critical components of the centrifuge" under the garden of his Baghdad home.

"I had to maintain the program to the bitter end," he explained. All the while the Iraqi physicist was aware that he held the key to Saddam's continuing nuclear ambitions.

"The centrifuge is the single most dangerous piece of nuclear technology," Dr. Obeidi says in his book. "With advances in centrifuge technology, it is now possible to conceal a uranium enrichment program inside a single warehouse."

Consider: 500 tons of yellowcake stored at Saddam's old nuclear weapons plant, where he'd managed to partially enrich 1.8 tons. And the equipment and blueprints that could enrich enough uranium to make a bomb stored away for safekeeping. And all of it at the Iraqi dictator's disposal.

If the average American were aware of these undisputed facts, the debate over Iraq's weapons of mass destruction would have been decided long ago - in President Bush's favor.

One more detail that Mr. Wilson and his media backers don't like to discuss: There's a reason Niger was such a likely candidate for Saddam's uranium shopping spree.

Responding to the firestorm that erupted after Wilson's July 2003 column, Prime Minister Tony Blair told reporters:

"In case people should think that the whole idea of a link between Iraq and Niger was some invention, in the 1980s we know for sure that Iraq purchased round about 270 tons of uranium from Niger."
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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