:rolleyes: bla bla bla bla bla bla bla....bla!

ban all hooks???

"ban all hooks???"

Nah...just ban all the "sportsmen" who use the hooks to intentionally snag our shared fish resources.

Fish on...

Todd

flossing is illegal in our state already! It's called snagging! Snagging is hooking a fish in any way where the fish doesn't VOLENTARILY take the hooks into it's mouth!! If the fish doesn't bite it's snagged!

Yes it should be banned and it already is banned!

On top of that WDFW should not allow angling in terminal areas like below hatcheries. It always brings out the worst in people.

To answer the question, it already is banned. If the fish didn't voluntarily take the bait or lure in its mouth, then it was snagged. Flossing is merely a "high-falutin'" term for a type of snagging.

More interesting, I think, are people's motivations to snag or floss. If a person's intent is to enjoy sport, then he or she ought to employ the concepts of sport. That includes giving game a "sporting chance." That led to what have become the rules of "fair chase." That led to the current regulations which require that a "fair caught" fish is one which voluntarily takes the bait or lure in its mouth. A "foul caught" fish is one that is hooked otherwise.

Not everyone fishes for sport. In the U.K. and the maritime provences of Canada, salmon belong to the owner of the riparian land rights. Commoners and peasants have no legal access to the fish, so there have been long standing traditions of poaching "his lordship's" salmon by gigging them with spear, gaff, or snagging tackle. The "sport" in this case is to get away with taking the lawful property of members of the upper class, who own the land, rivers, and the fish therein. It's part of an extention of what might be termed historic class warfare, in a way.

It's theft by law. However the laws were written by and for the landed gentry. One could reasonably wonder how it is that so many who have occupied the land since time immemorial do not own any of it, or the water, or the fish or game. Hence, we have poaching, and it's seen in a positive light by a great many people who at least consider themselves somewhat disenfranchised.

And here in the U.S. we have had poaching since the first fish and game laws. The key difference is that the fish and game are owned by everyone, not just the landed gentry. Tradition, however, endures, and poaching - getting away with something illegal - is seen in a positive light by admittedly fewer, but a still significant proportion of society.

The upshot is that flossing is snagging, and snagging is illegal. But it is representative of a long established tradition and isn't likely to go away as long as there are fish to poach. We're human, after all.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

My question with this thread is what is the purpose in having hatchery fish? For sportsman to catch, right? I believe the norm is that hatchery fish and native fish spawning DO NOT make the run healthier! So really what you are trying to say is that by harvesting a fish that "by design" isn't hopefully gonna be caught is somehow, GOOD??? Hatchery fish are there to be caught/harvested by sportsman! It seems to me that many of you have an elitest attitude about this and it ruins your day that "I fish with a 2 inch leader and catch hatchery fish and Joe-blow uses and nine fooooot leader and he catches more fish than me" Come on guys, we're talking about meat holes vs a stretch of river. Flossing isn't nearly as effective where the fish arn't concentrated....like hatchery holes. Hatchery fish NEED to be harvested to not spoil our Native fish gene pools. Get over the semantics and elitist attitudes........I fish blue creek weekly and see alot of flossing, but I also see alot of people releasing foul hooked fish.

What r hatchery fish for? If they escape, do they strengthen our wild fish? No, so escentially the snaggers, flosser, legal fishermen are doing the Nates a big favor!!!! Everything else is just our pride getting inthe way!!!!

I think 90% of the coho caught on the Snohomish are flossed and they are wild.

TK,

You mean the big yellow sleds with four people in the boat tossing nine foot leaders and Dick Nites near the 522 Bridge are flossing?



Fish on...

Todd

I love how all the "experts" call using a long leader FLOSSING.

I use a leader around 6 feet long and i can't recall ever catching a fish on the outside of the mouth, other than a blatant foul hook when I reel in.

The last time i checked, when my lead is bouncing on the bottom my corky is in a straight line behind it. How can that be flossing?

Snagging is an intentional act, foul hooked fish is an accident and shall be released. Using a 6 foot leader is fishing.

music man the primary purpose of hatchery fish is to supplement tribal and commercial harvest, sport harvest is to some extent a byproduct. of that effort. Most of the hatcheries exsist to supplement wild runs as mitigation for lost habitat. They are you could say a subsidy for commercial fishermen.

Having said that I believe hatchery fish should be harvested by sportsmen. I also believe that there is another issue here as well and that is the health of sportfishing. I personally believe that snagging is destructive to the sport. I grew up in the Washougal river where at one time people cam from all over the world to snag excess hatchery fall chinook, why people would do that is beyond me but never the less they did. Unfortunatly the act wasn't confined to the legal snagging area it spread throughout the river and this at a time when wild summer steelhead were very vulnerable. Now on an angler day basis there is more snagging on the Washougal than there is legit fishing. Snagging has destroyed the ethics of sportanglers in the Washougal area, visit the river in september and october and you'll see it. It's absolutely disgusting! and it ruins the opportunity for anyone who wishes to participate in a sporting manner. This is setting asde issues like litter and property damage which are both signifigant!

My point is that as sport anglers we need to hold ourselves to a very high standard because our sport and our fishing experience is being destroyed by lowering them. Snagging is just an example of that.

Todd,

They call it being a 10 percenter.

TK,

Do you mean 10% are hooked when the fish actually bites the lure?



Fish on...

Todd

Todd

"Do you mean 10% are hooked when the fish actually bites the lure?"

Nope, the guys in the sleds will tell you they are the 10% catching 90% of the fish and therefore fishing gods ( Flossing gods maybe). I think the 10% hooked in the mouth has zero to do with skill and more about right palce right time with dumb luck.

TK,

I knew what you meant...I was being fascetious, and expressing my [pretend] incredulity that anyone would actually think poorly of those "god like" fishermen!

Fish on...

Todd

There sure is alot of sheep following the "leader" on this issue. The only way you can truly not be a "FLOSSER" is to pull plugs in a straight line from your boat. Everyone else is a snagger and should have their licenses revoked.

Give it a break!!!

Todd,

I thought you where but 10% worked both ways.

The flosser pretend's to be a superior fisherman on the river while the blatant snaggers do not even attempt to pretend that they are something other than what they are.

I suppose it's hard to show up at the river with $1000 in gear and many more $1000's in a boat etc. and go home empty handed when the river is just loaded with fish while the blatant snagger reels them in backwards with $50 in gear.

The new part of the definition of non-bouyant lure restriction seems to be a way of reducing flossing. (No hook above a bouyant lure i.e. corky/cheater such as the double hook rig that seems so popular in SW rivers) What are your thoughts on that?

Was that rig really the target for the new definition? I would find that hard to believe.

I do know of a "sure-fire" flossing rig that is being popularized in Alaska where the bobber is rigged below the hook. Thank goodness that won't be a legal setup in WA.

Doc,

I know the one you are referring to and remember the forum "debate" on a different forum on that setup last year. The bad part about that is the originator of that effective floss rig actually condoned it's use on other fisheries other than at the Homer Lagoon where snagging becomes legal at a certain point during the run. That was going down a very bad path in a hurry and hopefully that info doesn't rear it's ugly head again. I don't care to see that happening down in the slow water area that you and I fish up there, although I doubt it's efficacy would be as good as in the non-moving to very slow water.