hello fellow anglers. Did any of you read the article in sts about flossing fish with long leaders. if you did or didn't what are your thought's about this subject.the person who wrote the article say's that people who fish with leaders over eighteen inches long are just flossing the fish and are really not catching them. SO FELLOW ANGLERS WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS SUBJECT

That statement may, or may not, be true. Just all depends on the fishery, the location of the fishery, and the technique being used.

IE, if I run a 24" leader to my K-15, I highly doubt I'm flossing kingers.... :rolleyes:

18" leader to a bare 2/0 hook on the Kenai for reds, hell yeah I'm flossing fish.

Leader length is not critical when flossing fish.

shouldn't even be a debate. Take it from someone who's been fishing the Kenai for 25 years, and family for many more before I was even born. Back in the old days it was treble hooks with melted lead. It was blatant snagging and that's just the way it was. Now this "flossing" thing comes along and has at least turned it into a "sport". There's a certain technique and it's every bit a responsible way to fish, and done right is no different than any other means. At least there aren't as many issues with fish mortality as hooks don't get buried deep, and rarely does a fish come to the bank with bleeding gills. Can this really be an argument?

I think that whether or not someone is trying to floss depends more than just the leader length. There are many conditions that determine the length of leader you use. Sure, if your at 5 feet, there's probably some dental action going on. I know people who regularly like to keep their presentation about 2 feet away from the lead while not intentionally flossing.

Years like this one the fish can see getting out of your ride
I have watched holding summerruns move out of the path of gear drifted past them. Longer ,lighter leaders,up to 5 ' down to 6lb,has ment fish on the bank or no fish.

Long leader has nothing to do with flossing.
I can prove you can floss with a cluster of egg, spoons, spinners, and fly.

No doubt it is easier to floss with long leaders, just like it is easier to floss your teeth with long floss than one that is to short. But in different fisheries long leaders don't necessarily mean your flossing or intending to floss.

I have fished the Cowlitz with 24" 8lb leaders and switched to 48" and received more bites. I'm not flossing. Going to 6', I'm not confident there is that much difference, might be on the verge of flossing (unintentionally)

I have also flossed (just ruined my rep) and find that it is much easier to control 3' to 4' leaders in clear water than the 11' leaders I see on the Frazer. 11' that is definately flossing when there is 1-2' of vis. (much different than clear water on the Cowlitz with 4' leaders). But if you are into flossing, the 11' leader in colored water is the route to go, you can cover a lot of ground.

It comes down to intent and style. If I see steelhead at Reiters I can usually hook that steelhead if I want, even in the mouth, if I am patient (force feeding) but my intent is to hook the fish (legaly). If I want it to bite I will use a technique that passes the offering in front of the fish, not right down (or around) its mouth.

It all comes down to intent not leader length ( even though we know folks who like to floss prefer long leaders)
And then there are the ones we don't even know we flossed?, how do we deal with that?

I have to go with a legally hooked fish is a legally hooked fish. Unless we start giving out tickets for intent (which some gamies do, pretty gray area)


my 2¢

hey guys thanks for all the replies. i usually fish with a three to five foot leader when i am drift fishing. it just really pissed me off what that guy wrote in the article. he made it sound like we are just a bunch of snaggers out here fishing. HAVE A GREAT DAY AND KEEP YOUR LINES TIGHT

Finneyrock,
I couldn't agree with you more.

well are you telling me your going to use a short leader in the puy and say there biting it you still floss the fish with what color the water is no fish can see 3 inches in front of them i use up to 9 feet af leader in the puy and probley hook more fish than you and you 12 inch leaders.

two years ago on the puy I saw elbow to elbow anglers with six foot plus leaders flossing pinks.
Everyone knew what they were doing was flossing but no one would admit to it. "They're biting it with the outside of their cheek!" hehe...um okay.

Is flossing illegal? If not, is it unethical? If it is not unethical why bother pretending you are getting biters?

Im knew to your waters....I tried the six foot leader with double corky on the puy, stood next to the million other "anglers" and flossed a couple pinks. There was technique and skil involved for sure...but frankly it sucked and I'll never go back there for that kind of fishing. I want to feel a fish take my offering, not feel my hook get hung up on a fishs face. If i was desperate for meat maybe..otherwise it was no fun and certainly not very sporting.

I see Herzog's books recommending 18-36 inch leaders in some cases...is he advocating flossing?...I dont think so. Depends on the fishery as you all said above.

Not to look stupid, but what is "flossing". From reading the posts, it sounds sort of like snagging, but must be different, as snagging is also mentioned.

Thanks for putting up with the noob!!

Flossing is snagging ,and sportsmen don't snag.
Gotta love the hordes of people and hundreds of guides ,snagging our sockeye into extinction .Now there working on the Chinooks ,coho and even steelhead.
The act of flossing IS a conservation concern ,it's all about "meat" ,and that is a concern.
With the growing population and shrinking salmon runs ,we should be concentrating on fishing for sport ,with a emphasis on limiting our kill.Instead, we have everyone "goldrushing" the Fraser, and snagging and killing the fish at an alarming rate. Last year we had a catasrophically low return of sockeye ,and the snaggers never skipped a beat .This year we are seeing another brutally low return of both springs and sockeye ,and yet again the snaggers are out in full force ,looking to fill freezers ,pathetic .
These same people have the gall ,to blame the natives for the decline in stocks ,while snagging away on depleted stocks ,very sad.
Not only are sockeye stocks very low ,but it's not even open for sockeye ,yet the snaggers keep on snaggin ,and are killing imporatant spawners on the long journey to their rivers of origin.Instead an angler could simply fish with spin n glos (bar fishing) ,and would encounter only Chinook and not endanger the closed sockeyes.I'm glad to see some visiting Americans are sticking with this method (barfishing) ,you're sportsmanship is much appreciated ,to the snaggers ,STAY HOME .
Keep in mind ,when you snag a fish in the belly ,it allows water to enter the body cavity and render all eggs useless,due to water hardening (remember that when you're brilliantly flossing coho or springs on you're favorite river).
As a guide in the Fraser Valley ,I can hardly watch as the ethics in fishing is driven into the ground .What started out as a way to harvest abundant sockeye ,has turned into a way to catch anything that swims and is definately helping to wipe out our salmon runs.This technique has spread to all rivers ,including during steelhead season ,it's gross ,not angling at all.
Friends who guide on the Skeena system ,are horrified by the fact ,most visiting anglers are using this method now and are injuring "world class " steelhead on their journey home ,up the skeena river.
For me , the greatest part of fishing ,has always been ,figuring out what the fish will bite on ,or being there ,when the "BITE" is on ,or discovering a deadly lure .Putting "MEAT" in the freezer has only been a added bonus to all the above .
I would still fish as much as I could ,if I had to release everything. If you feel the same way ,then I would do the sport a favor ,and give up this debauchery ,and support the movement to bring the "sport" back to sportfishing .
Somethings to ponder
"lure" - it's called a fishing lure because the fish is lured to IT .
"how are they biting", "any bites" ,most good fishing stories relate to the "BITE",have we given this up???.
Will you be proud showing your grandkids ,the pictures of all the fine fish you snagged ??.
Do snaggers keep a journal of all the details of every trip ???,and why not ???.
Is it because all limiting factors are thrown out the window when snagging ,AYUP.
Snagging is like kissing your sister ,"not worth mentioning ".
Hey ,but at least you can tell your grandkids how good the meat tasted ,yipeee :rolleyes: .

DK, "Flossing is snagging ,and sportsmen don't snag."

Hmmm... now that looks familiar

Awesome post DK.

Fished an 8 foot leader all last year for Silvers and never flossed one of them. They all took the lure with a vengence.

Big fin ,it's all about intent ,not leader length.
Many ways to catch coho without snagging ,just gotta resist that urge ,when the bite is off ,we all go home empty handed sooner or later when fishing ho's ,we'll, except the snaggots .

Hey, Big Bucks,

Please learn how to comprehend what you read before you go misconstruing what I wrote in an article. Go back and read it again please.

As for the other posts, DK , BC Steel ,etc., you guys are part of the inspiration for that article and I feel for you. Hang in there and keep the good posts coming.

Ed

ok maybe i didn't get the total understanding of your article you wrote.but it seemed to me that you said if you use over a certain length of leader then people are snagging fish. I will agree that if a person keeps a fish that is not hooked in the mouth that is unethical. i use long leader's on most of the rivers i fish but not all the time. and if i floss a fish so the term is used i release that fish. ninty five percent of the fish i catch are released anyways to swim another day for somebody else to catch. i fish to have fun not to keep and eat the fish. this last december i caught four fish pushing twenty pounds on the cowlitz glow balling at night. and everyone on of those fish went back in the water unharmed. anyways didn't mean to upset you i will read the article again and see what idea i get from it again.i guess maybe i got over heated when i started reading and didn't get the full effect of your article that you wrote. well good luck to everyone and keep your lines tight

Wow,

See how easy that is?

Big bucks, you took the fun out of it.......(jk)

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm in a good mood, 'cuz I just got home with a 35" summer in the cooler.

Ed