Why would your comment kill the thread? I've thought about how cool it would be if all commercial fishing and harvest was stopped. Fising would be great. Of course, poachers would increase drastically, and it won't happen anytime soon because most people like keeping fish. I mainly like catching them, and although I like eating lingcod and salmon, I'd gladly give that up in order to have better fishing. In my dreams...

There is plenty of cheap Kraft mac and cheese in the store if you're that freakin' hungry .................. anyone who kills a wild steelhead is a







'nuff said.

I'm not buying it. There is a difference between 1 dead fish and 50 dead fish. Life is not about Moral Absolutes. If thats the way America worked what a crappy place it would be..

1 drink or 20 behind the wheel of a car ?? Its just drinking right ??
Sex with an Adult or with a Minor ?? its all sex right ??

Its about being smart.. not Moral

Stam, it's not a moral absolute, and don't let her define the argument for you...she can define how she wants, but you don't have to play that game.

It's about balance, and the smartest use of the resource...more opportunity, more economic benefits, and more fish spawning, which will consequently lead to even more opportunity, even more economic benefits, and even more fish spawning...which is good for the resource, good for the small towns that depend on the economic incentives of having a healthy resource, and good for those who spend the money chasing the resource.

More fish, more fishermen, more fishing days, more money spent on fishing, more fish spawning, more nutrients in the rivers...more, more, more.

Or...we can CnR a few pounds of native turds into septic tanks and sewer lines, have less fish, less fishing, less money spent on fishing, less fish spawning, and less nutrients in the river.

Fish on...

Todd

Ummm... your right. I guess losing the sport of steelhead fishing is O.K because why ???

I go steelheading 20 times a year because its the thing I do thats my main hobbie. I'm not willing to lose that because somebody goes twice a year and just "has" to kill something. I might also point out that as much as I wish it were true, I don't catch one everytime I go. I do however pump alot of money into communities that really need it. Fact is, my 20 trips a year do a whole lot more for that town than your two trips a year. An entire industery is built around "sport" fishing.. entire towns count on it. When the opertunity is lost.. who suffers ??

Aunty, I don't feel any need to make you a bad guy...only the very first sentence applies to you, and I wasn't even talking to you, anyway.

No matter how many times you say it, a 20x higher mortality rate for bonking fish compared to that of releasing them is not just "opportunity"...it's smart, and it puts more fish on the spawning gravel.

From "more fish" comes all the rest...the opportunity, the economic benefits, the nutrient load benefits, and the biological benefits to the fish runs...and you can continue to define it as "all about opportunity" with no benefits to the fish all you want, but you're just as wrong now as you were the first time you said it, and saying it over and over again doesn't make it any more true.

Fish on...

Todd

If you want to maximize opportunity to fish for steelhead, WSR helps acheive that.

Actually, it maximizes STEELHEAD period. I don't agree with the "your a Sh!thead statement" but I find zero logic in your idea that its fine to end all steelhead fishing because you toasted it just because its your "right" to do so. Steelhead fishing is the greatest thing I have, I do hope that my Grand kids will have the opertunity to feel the same way.

Well...good change of subject, I guess, but that's not what we're talking about...but I'll bite, anyway, just for kicks.

Fishing is a blood sport, and anyone who tells you otherwise either doesn't catch any, or doesn't know what they're talking about.

There are very few fishing scenarios that are good for fish...maybe none, unless we judge them by a decidedly non-scientific manner.

Those who call WSR "extreme", and then follow it up with "if it's healthy, we should bonk, and if it's not, we should close it"...those are the hypocrites, as they are embracing both extremes themselves.

WSR is the balance point...fish longer, spend more money, and send more fish to the gravel...which enables you to fish longer, spend more money, and send more fish to the gravel...

That is balance.

Take your personal jabs and irrelevant responses back to gf.com...keep it on topic here.

Fish on...

Todd

FACT: 75 % of steelhead fisherman don't even catch 10 fish a year.. they might make you to think they do, but they don't.

I know lots of steelhead fisherman. Lets define a guy who calls steelhead his passion a guy who gets out for a couple days 5 times a season and "avid" steelheader. 75% of them don't catch 10 fish a year C&R or not. However, They are the institution of the sport and what makes it great. I pulled 75 % out of my butt but I suspect its higher than that

...and if you want to feel that you have the high moral ground because you don't fish for steelhead, fine...there's someone else who doesn't fish at all, who can claim even higher ground...or someone who doesn't live on the Canal with a septic tank, who can claim the higher moral ground, too...

That's not what it's about...it's about what is good for all the things that flow from steelhead fishing...fun, time spent, money spent, and balancing that with getting fish runs in better shape.

If there's no one fishing for them, or spending money on fishing for them, then there'll be no one giving a rat's ass about whether or not they recover.

Fish on...

Todd

Somewhere out there, you will find some common ground, work on that together, and come to some agreement. The neat thing here is you all are interested in the welfare of the resourse. First work on finding out what you agree with, and then work out your differences on the other items. Seems to me that some of you are letting this get under your skin, and getting personnel. I would not like all fishing to be C/R, as I really like eating them so think some hatchery fish are in order, at least for me. I wish you all well (control your blood pressure), and tight lines which is what we all are looking for.

Shot? When I said "don't let her define the argument"?

That's a shot?

You are taking your "Oh! I'm such a victim!" to an even lower low, now. I don't give a rat's ass if you support the CCA...

Fish on...

Todd

I think it's important to discern between a "reason" and a "justification", too...

Saying "if the run is healthy, I should be able to bonk one" is a justification, not a reason...a reason would be the "why" involved in the story...like "I like to eat them" or something.

Saying "if I don't bonk 'em, the Indians will!" is another justification, not a reason...

Fish on...

Todd

If I don't bonk em do I have to change my Screen name?

Just use in the context of hatchery fish.

I know that I said that was done but I need to chime in here for a moment.

First, Todd I know that many steelhead do not return to the ocean but the numbers that you posted seem to me and from what I understand to be very low. I am just curious where these numbers came from? I would like to see them for myself. I’m not saying that they are wrong I just have not seen these facts before.

Second, before the steelhead moratorium of 3 years ago that was pushed so heavily by many fly fishermen and C&R guys, the tribes were only netting 3 or 4 days a week. Because of the moratorium, the tribes felt (and I know that it does not make any sense) that they should be able to harvest the fish that we were not. Now they net Monday through Friday. In essence the whole idea of the moratorium went right out the window and the netting has increased.

Good job guys don’t blame me for that one.

(I am not making a crack at the fly fishermen here, I myself grew up fly fish for steelhead and currently I do both)

Maybe I'll have 2 screen names then, Gill Popper for hatchery posts and Nate Hugger for wild fish. I'll make sure to do all the hugging in the water.

Actually I think the argument is anyone who "intentionally" kills a wild steelhead. Not to speak for Mingo, but I think thats what he was referring to. That changes things and supports Stams argument... Intent is the key. Anyone who runs over someone in their car is different than anyone who intentionally runs over someone in their car....
The only aside is the argument about the method used to catch a wild steelhead... but as Sparkey said a C&R guy who sidedrifts double hooks may actually be sort of a $hithead...until a rule gets changed.

DA,

Todd's gone fishing for a few days.

The respawner survival numbers are from reading the scales of adult steelhead to determine their age and hatchery or wild genesis. 12 or 13% is generally what's been observed for wild steelhead in WA state, and by far most of those are females. I know I only saw one male ever with a respawner check, and I think I heard of one that had two, which is so close to a statistical impossibility, but it probably happens occasionally. I don't have a report citation for you, unfortunately.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

not by the very definition of intent...('ll save posting the googled definition) but the magnifying glass is getting nearer the crux!! I hear you though Aunty.