Nothing can prepare a guy for raising daughters. I picked my 7 year old up from school yesterday and while driving home she says, "Daddy, I like this song." It was ZZ Top's, Pearl Necklace. Is that fuc%ed-up or what? Irrespective of the fact she is oblivious to the meaning of the lyrics, worlds colide.

Last weekend my wife tells me, "The girls have some friends coming over," as she heads out to run some erands. Within 30 minutes there are 5 pre-puebescent little girls running around, each one trying to dominate and control the others. Ugly. All the moms want to be "friends" with these wrecks instead of laying down the law and it shows. No disipline whatsoever.

Want more fun? Try raising step-daughters. Done it twice, sets of two. I was a bank machine, chauffeur, homework helper, but if I tried to discipline............I was out of line.

And when they turn 14? They go through a moody, dark year and you're evil.

My real daughter, now 25, is bright, funny and a know-it-all. When we get together she will say, "Dad, you should......." or "Dad, you need.....". So, now when I see her, I tell her she only gets 3 "dad, you shoulds" per day.

Sol, your daughter is 7? Your drinking days are just starting.......

I have two, 7 and 9. I love them to death, but mutherphucker PALEASE!!!!!!!! They view life so differently than males I can't relate. Life is nothing more than princess parties and play dates. Money is free, mom washes their clothes and cleaning their rooms is asking to much.

BTW: I believe I've got the drinking problem licked. I drink beer on the weekends only. The days of drinking hard liquor 5 days a week to the tune of 2 gallons a month are over for me. I don't miss it either.

My daughter turn six tomorrow.
So far so good. I get to look down my nose at other people's spoiled brats. As far as kids go is my job is to raise her into a level headed responsible adult and thats it.

Sol--Congrats on licking the liquor.

My closest friend of over 30 years died 5 years ago leaving two teenage girls which I've become close to as a surrogate uncle. I figured no problem as I've raised two good sons that are adults now and have numerous nieces.
Wow - I had no clue about girls at all. My buddy used to bitch about being in a house of all women and I used to dog him for whining. Where ever you are, my brother, forgive me for I knew not what I was dogging about. These two are real Princesses.
I will give the two ladies this though-whenever there is grubby work to be done, they are there. We spent last Saturday repacking bearings on the 18 yr. olds sailboat trailer prior to launching it for the summer. She dug right in and was greasy handed when we were done.
Next job for me - chaperone at the all night graduation party. I hope I can stay awake.

Good luck, Sol. I know some of your pain with the young ladies.

Sol,

I had two girls. I can only think of two downsides in retrospect. I wanted a son so I'd have an excuse to buy and build the huge electric train set I never had as a kid. And second, neither of them has taken much interest in fishing, altho they seem quite pleased at my interest.

They had plenty of play dates, but zero princess parties, and money wasn't on the menu. My girls learned to ID any fish I brought home and tossed in the kitchen sink. They learned to name each fin, the gills, maxillary, pre-max, and got to poke the eyes with their fingers. Maybe that's why they're both natural science majors instead of social science.

Your girls can be a lot of fun. Look for the entertainment value.

When my girls were in high school, we had coed sleepovers. We knew where everyone was, and who they were with. It worked out too well. I don't believe in curfews, but my ex-wife had some issues. We cut a deal with the kids that if they weren't gonna' be home by midnight, they had to call in, tell us where they were, who they were with, where they were going (ya know they're going somewhere else as soon as they hang up), and what time they would be home. That worked pretty well. No way was I gonna' stay up half the night waiting for kids to come home. I mighta' had to get up early to go fishing.

Forget about the cleaning the room issue. Make your life easier. Let them have their rooms as their own domain. Let 'em keep it how they want it. Serious. You can always renovate when they grow up and move out. I told my girls that if I had to come in their rooms for any maintenance or whatever, I expected to be able to walk on the floor, or whatever they had on it - it's their risk, not mine.

Let me introduce you to the "box." And you can introduce it to your angels. They can drop their stuff wherever in the house they like, but if it's not in their room, and is instead in the main family part of the house, it better not be there when they go to bed. Any crap left out at night, instead of tripping over it, I put it in the "box." The box may be emptied on Monday and Thurday nights only. If their favorite, or all their shoes, or whatever ended up in the box - well, that's tough sh!t; they shouldn't leave it out. Within two weeks, I never had to deal with kid crap strewn all over the house ever again. Their own rooms were nightmares, however, under the rules of problem ownership, that wasn't my problem.

Kids can be fun, if you let it be.

Anything for a bro'.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Sol, having raised three daughters and one son,give me the boy anytime. The son was happy to play with his buddies,eat what was cooked,wear what was bought for him,do his chores,clean his room,keep his grades up,and do it all without whining. He could talk to you without crying and could give a sh"t if his buddies forgot to call back or didn't agree with him.
Now the "drama" queens. Where do I start? You have my sympathy as they get older. By the time they are 14, you will be the dumbest,cruelest,most out of touch and ignorant person on the planet. Only your wife will be held in less favor than you. The only good thing to come out of it was the times after they turned 19 that all of them came to me,appologied and questioned as to how I kept from throwing then out for being such bitches. We now have the best possible relationships I could hope for in friends. Good Luck. It does get better.

You know what really pisses me off? When I hear, "I'm bored," from either of them. We live on the waterfront, have an acre of freshly cut grass, 10,000 SF of practicaly level asphalt, more movies, toys, bikes and pets than should be allowed by law, and all our neighbors have kids the same age, yet they are constantly "bored." Give me a fuc%ing break!

I can hardly wait until they're teenagers and I come home to the whole lot of them on the rag, mom included.

Hang tough Sol, lesser men than you have survived raising girls.
Just remember that one day they will grow up, get married and be some other poor guy's problem. Then there's always the universal parental curse "I hope when you do have your own children, they are JUST LIKE YOU"!

Yer doomed.

My two girls are almost 7 and 2.
As for the i'm bored thing. I translate that into "Daddy, I want your attention, lets go do something together" So go and take them to Dairy Queen, or take a walk at a park, or take them shopping. Get on their level. Most of the time they just need a little reminder of what they can do around the house, one of their hobbies, and off they go.

I say, force them to help you in the yard and with housework.
Teach them how things work and how to fix things...and how to think critically. Love them and listen.

Don't let them become like my step-brother's kids, who call the mexicans working in their yard "Slaves" while they sit and talk about how bored they are.
That type of attitude drives me flippin nuts.

When my sons said they were bored, I put them to work. They figured it out fairly quickly and never said that to me any longer. When they became teenagers and would whine about something, I just told them that their whining was my goal, music to my ears, fewer sounds were sweeter than their whining and meant that my job as a parent was going well.

Wow, what a read. I think I saw my own family in several ofv these posts. I have a daughter thats 23, and one thats 15. The one thats 23 always lived with her mom, and was never a problem. The one thats 15 however.. what a mouth on that chick.

I think the thing that bothers me most is that she totally disregards anything I say and re-directs any and everything to "mom".. In fact, she will say " I'm not talking to you am I ?? I was talking to mom". She will run my wife ragged. From about age 10 to present, she will stand upsatirs and yell "MOM" 30 or 40 times without bothering to come downstairs and find her. All she wants is to ask a question, but she wants my wife to jump to it and come to her. She is in control at all times in this house. She will not lift a finger to help with anything, yet demands everything. My son is similar ( sheltered by his momma.. she does everything for him.. just graduated high school and is headed to colledge and has zero idea of how to do anything for himself) I have tried over the years to straighten this train wreck out but then "I'm the BAD guy" or I am being " Negative"...

I guess the part that bothers me most is I remember how nice they used to be before they were teenagers

Ok, the "box" kicks ass!

How old were your kids when you introduced them to the "box"?

Plus you seem happy to live in a fuc%ing pig stye. What's that leave to bitch about?

When all this shi% blew up back in December I was deamed "the asshole they couldn't live with anymore." My requests to clean crap up just got met with statements like, "if we do as you ask you just up the bet by asking for more." Well, ya, because the shi% they just picked-up in the hallway was deposited on the rec room floor instead of being put away. So I'd say "clean that up." Multiply that by 3 (my wife is almost as bad as the kids) and pretty much everything that came out of my mouth was "negitive." And since there's three of them and one of me, I'm the one with the "personality problem."

The box idea sounds like it is worth trying.

I went through 2 lint rollers to clean the last coat that got left in that kennel you call a living room.

Don't take me too seriously, bro, I love ya.

Sol, you're not going to change your girls and your wife now or in the future, so pick your battles. To me, it looks like you have a good reason to be gone more from home(especially when they are all on their monthly cycle) and ........................GO FISHING!

Sorry about the drinking comment. Everybody has a their own level of moderation. If drinking beer only on weekends works for you, then good. I had a buddy who used to enjoy smoking cigars with me, but he worked his way up to 4 or 5 a day, so had to quit cold turkey. He simply couldn't find his level of moderation. I just enjoy a cigar every 3 or 4 days AND a drink EVERY day. That's my level of moderation.

Memo to Stam: My dog sheds too. Real dogs do.

Don't do it John. Get yourself a karate monkey and grow a big plot of weed instead.

No daughters here but try growing up with two sisters, only one bathroom, one phone and one TV. In fact one morning before High School I woke up to the usual "fight over the bathroom" only it was between the two sisters. My mom gets up, slaps me and goes back to bed. My sisters, seeing me get whacked for no reason, stopped fighting so I guess it was effective.

Did I just hear "big plot of weed" ?

C'mon.........don't fool around.

Where is it?

Best thread ever! Sol and Stam and killin' me. Can't stop laughing.

DanS just put it over the top!



PS. Speaking of DanS, is that you on the backcover of the latest STS? That shirtless dude Tony took the photo of?

That's gotta be you....

Who else does Dummington take photos of.

My little Hitler just walked in the door.. right now... informed me that I needed to give her 30 dollars for some other little chicks birthday present.. that she was going to some other kids cabin this weekend, and that because of that, she needed a new pair of Capris ( I think those are a type of pants) and that I should giver her 40 more dollars for that... No hello,, please,, nothing.

I asked her how her last day of school went today.. no reply, headed up the stairs.. I went up there and told her I would give her some money, but I wanted her to empty the dishwasher ( understand that this would make emptying the dishwasher, a 5 min job at most , at 70 dollars for 5 min.. Brain surgen wages ) Her reply ???.... " your just sitting there, you do it "...then closed the door.

I told her through the door, she had to do that before I would even think about the cash.. her reply "just leave me alone"..

So she has probably already called mom at work and set the whole thing up

I'm never gonna make it, bro. It's only a matter of time.

I can picture Sol BECOMING a Karate monkey! With only one girl, do I stand a chance if I just raise her as a boy? At 18 months she's already trying out shoes and throwing tantrums.... I'm screwed.

The son is worse Sol. He gets all puffy on me when things don't go exactly his way. My problem with him is he is 6-4, weighs about 240 and has a max bench of right at 400 lbs.. ( football hero and clueless about much of anything else ) Just signed him up for 15,000 bucks for one year of colledge, momma bought him a 2004 Exterra and he can't even figure out how to check the oil.
( showed him a bunch of times, worked on dirt bikes with him for years... that I bought.. had no interest in doing anything but riding them yada yada ) He came close to getting his ass kicked out of my house a week back when he asked me for money to have his rig washed and I told him " its nice out, just do it in the driveway and save the money " Totally blew up.. called me a cheap C-sucker. Momma came running and told me that I should focus on the good things he does. I don't know, something about getting called a C-sucker kinda makes that hard to do.

What hits home with me here is the fact that somehow these things always wind up with my ass in the doghouse.

If my son called me a C-sucker, it would take all of his friends together to pry his body out of the drywall.

B-Run, I know the college expense crunch. I spent $50K for 4 years of college for my daughter to get an Art degree. She's a secretary for an engineering firm now, didn't use the degree at all. But I love her and it made her happy, along with the car I bought her and the wedding I paid for, etc.

my girls are 23 &19 just wait till they turn 14 [censored] is going to hit the fan dude. once they turn 18 seems like things get a little better every year.Drama will allways be there, remember cindy Laupers song (Girls just want to have fun) thats it in a nut shell.
may the force be with you.

Sol,

If they’re bored, assign some work that has to be done “NOW!” Or if you’re not involved in a project of your own, ask them to join you. My oldest daughter and I made a model driftboat in the garage one time she started out bored. Let ‘em sand the project by hand.

Parker,

The “box” happened when they were both in elementary school. It really, really saved my sanity about crap strewn all over the house. But you have to be willing and able to be a consistent asshole about it, and boy, do they catch on fast.

B-run,

Hate to say it, but the 15 year old is being trained by someone to be the way she is. If she gets service for yelling “MOM!” 30 or 40 times, that’s training right there. When I write about how I was with my girls, it kinda’ seems like I was a real asshole, but if no one answered them after they yelled a name once or twice, I told them that means the person they’re seeking is out of ear shot, and the rules of problem ownership means the kid needs to go find that person and ask their question. Very easy to cure. When I yell, I can be heard in the next county. My kid yells for someone more than twice, and I go to them and yell at them until they cringe and admit that they understand yelling really isn’t so cool when someone else – like me – is doing it at them. Kinda' makes them disinterested in yelling the next time they want someone.

Money for b-day gift and pants? You don’t have to own these problems if you don’t want to. Does she have a budget for gifts, clothes, incidentals? If she did, she wouldn’t have to even mention it to you and could take care of it herself – assuming she manages her money responsibly. And if she doesn’t, well, let me refer again to the rules of problem ownership. Hell, I should write a book on this. Kids are so much more fun when they entertain you and can’t make most of these problems for you.

Whoa! I can’t believe the bit about your son. Sorry, but I’d a decked him. And if you want any respect for him, let him know that remark cost him that second year of college only because you’ve already paid for the first. Actually, any kid of mine said that, and I’d give ‘em the boot, and change the locks on the house doors, let ‘em see how they like paying their own rent. Just because he’s a football player, you can demand respect. It’s only right. You got something he wants, mainly money at this point it looks like. Tell him when he grows up and acts like he’s worth a dollar to you, you’ll consider investing that much in him. But why invest in his college to have him treat you like sh!t? I’m having a hard time with this story, and I really feel for you, B-run.

Solving the kid equation isn’t impossible. I think it’s love and discipline in equal measure, and damn little money, since they’re likely to spend it poorly – unless you do the budget thing I mentioned and refuse to bail them out when they screw up. Screwing up is one of the most valuable learning and growth experiences they will ever have.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

me making a HUUUUGE BOW!

a very astute observation Mister Sol.

very awesome stam!! i didnt know you had a daughter...hmph...guess you learn something new every day

Its easy to say what you would do. Its another matter to actaully do it. For one thing, anyone who actually knows me can tell ya I'm nobodys pussy. At the same time, things escalate fast when feelings are running high. Is it a good idea to punch your kid in the house and start a full on free for all ??? I would have to get pretty nasty to whip this kid, and its more knowing that it would hurt my feelings more knowing I did that for the rest of my life than it would if he kicked my ass.

You know, I left home on bad terms with my old man. I went away and found out I didn't know dick about anything. I was a a-hole I admit and I caused alot of problems at home. When I came back ( from the service) I treated him differently and we get along. Now he is all messed up and I take care of the problems. Its my job. I think maybe time with fix this.

He told me awhile ago that he " needed to find himself".. I told him " You find out about other people, you create yourself ". Long and short of it is, he will come around, and I know he is feeling like a major dick these days.

The 15 year old ??? thats moms problem. She created it she can fix it. I'll still be nice whenever she lets me.

Salmo G. more respect goes your way than i originally thought. From what i have read and talked to kids and adults that are dead on at raising kids. What you explained there is dead on what has to happen with everything. a consequence....but not a "rising rate/fluctuating" a consequence that is completely controlled by them. You have no say so. its cut and dry and no talking needs to happen. There can be no arguements or "buts" about it. The only other thing that i have read is that there also needs to be be encouragement and a reward on the opposite side to show that you do care and that you are proud of them for doing well.

i actually got that in a book i read.......The Horse Whisperer...the actual one in real life wrote a book on raising kids. what would he know right? hahah he applied his techniques from dealing with horses ( completely non violent or verbally violent) in breaking them ( he hates that term, he calls it partnering up to acheive a common goal) to raising kids. A reward and consequence system that has nothing to do with anything BUT the horse.

he raised ( as of the books publishing in 1999) 65 kids. adopted some and some were just mothers or fathers that were into drugs or that they coudnt deal with .

( they said control, he hates that word to, no one should control another individual EVER..its wrong...i agree its physcologically F****ed up to try and control another individual, otherwise known as manipulating someon to do what you want..no matter what the intended goal is)


i rented the video too from the library and watched interviews of close to 15 kids that are now grown up and living their own lives. Some of these kids were deeply disturbed from abusive, alcoholic, drug use, prostituiting parents, one kid was stealing at the age of 13 and was in and out of Juvy...every single one of the 65 kids went on to live fulfilling, competent, successful, completely law abiding lives...every one of them is financially stable and completely happy.....65 and 0 is a pretty damn good record when it comes to raising kids. He was currently raising 4 or so kids at his ranch during taping.

But much of what he talks about is what YOU mister Salmo G. just explained. Not controlling.....just some rules to acheive a common goal. You never TOLD them what to do, or tried to force them.....you gave them options...and it worked great! good to see that there are some very good people out there that know how to deal with kids. its scary how many parents just let everything go like Sol explained.

its funny though...you watch this man work with the kids and talk about them...he loves everyone of them....he rewards them for good behavior and work...never scolds...he gets genuinely dissapointed when they would disrespect him in the beginning. He gave them complete free rain of the ranch and all of its amneties unless they proved otherwise. He built them up from nothing with labor as a consequence and a large reward for a rewards. it was....amazing to watch...


and any successful *happy * parent i see employs a form of this system most of them unknowingly.

the kids would disrespect him..and he would say " i will earn your respect...i dont expect you to treat me any different then youve treated your parents or anyone else until i earn the right for you to respect me......."

wow...so pwerful.

i have to honestly say at some of the stories i got a little teary eyed at the love these kids had for this man...and how thankful they are.

he currently is touring the nation teaching his techniques to schools and got invited by the queen of england to speak. amazing man.

good luck Sol.....i dont envy you buddy cleaning up other peoples garbage..is never a fun task.

I haven't had kids, but it seems like there are three main problems in each situation. Salmo G seems to know what's going on.

1. Parents not working as a team- It's like the military, how could you enforce your authority and get your subordinates to do what needs done if they can go to another supervisor and have them cancel your orders. It is crucial that parents are united, which is tough if you have marriage problems or your partner won't let you punish your children.

2. Lack of discipline- Actions have consequences, and kids should be taught this their entire lives. Modern society tells you not to punish your kids and let them do whatever they want, and people then wonder why they grow up to be spoiled brats. I was ed, grounded, etc, when I was younger, and I know I am better for it. I will do the same with my kids.

3. Buying your kids off- Giving your kids the best toys and house and money whenever they demand it, etc. is not a good substitute for spending quality time with them.

These seem to be the most common and major mistakes parents make. If you could somehow resolve those issues, I think things would improve and your kids would turn out better because of it. Again, I'm not a parent and am not professing to be an expert who knows more than you, I'm just stating my opinion.

fishpinner

B-run,

We've met, and I don't take you as being a pussy to anyone. I don't mean to come off that way. I understand that Monday morning quarterbacking, as applied to child rearing, isn't the same as being in the heat of the moment on game day. While it's true that I don't know what I would do in that situation, I have the prior experience of what I have done when I'm in the authority role. Sometimes I think I can be an actor; I can be good cop or bad cop, as the situation seems to call for. Frankly, it's just me that if my kid calls me a c-s, they're outa' my house until they try an attitude change. Tough love is the hardest thing to do. I knew I couldn't do everything, so I set a small number of boundaries and made them absolute. And I was never a bank ATM for the kids. First, I didn't have any money, so it wasn't an option. Maybe I got sh!thouse lucky; I don't know. Being daughters, they're closer to their mother than to me. However, they seem to have a lot of genuine respect for me and the principles I instilled in them. Their mom wanted to have a lot of control on the outcome. I just wanted them to be safe so that they would have the options of choosing the eventual outcome.

I wish you the very best. I can only say that the experience can be very rewarding, and the results can impress you no end. I hope that's what you end up with.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Asshole is my middle name. That part will be easy.

Ok, looks like I should wait a couple more years. Oldest is 4.5. Youngest is 2.5

The crap all over the house truly chaps my ass. So far, they are good at cleaning it all up on the weekends. They like "working" with Daddy.

Parker: When they're 14.5 and 12.5, you're toast.

If Mr. Rodgers told kids to obey their parents and clean their rooms instead of telling them they are "special" just the way they are and not to change we wouldn't be in this fuc%ing mess. It's all his fault.

I thought Mr. Rogers was dead?

Thank Glub my kids don't know about Mr. Rogers.

Did mr. rogers die? Dang, I thought that was Captain Kangaroo...
We can blame it on him too. Or that Pee Wee fella!

6:30 AM weekdays on Channel 9. "Will you be my special friend?" He had to be raised by a girl.

I think sometime during the late 90's " Mr McFeely" was deemed a person that should never be around kids with a name like that.

And yes, Mr Rogers died I think. Word around the campfire was it was Anal-Injected-Death-Syndrome O.K, maybe it wasn't

I always thought " Mr Green Jeans " ( Capt Kangeroo sidekick) would be a great name for a pot farmer

A true point. Kids are special, but they need to have respect, earned or not, they need to have concequences for what they do wrong, and the need to know the world does not revolve around them. But they are still special.

My son is never bored. He is always out riding his bike, jumping onthe trampoline, rolling his go-cart, chopping something inthe woods or building something, and even playing video games. Not much direction needed with him. My daughter however does need direction now and then. She is great, but does say "I'm bore", which then gets her the oppurtunity to get a chore. Boredom is not allowed. My kids are pretty darn good, got no complaints, but my daughter definately need more direction. Otherwise a little wining and boredom comes out.

Ugh, while I was just writing this, my wife and mother in law were here and leaving to go garage saling. I hear a big scrape and cracking outside. My parents had left one of their cars here last night. She was moving it and backed into my Jeep. I guess my compliant would be this. My mother in law has hit one of our cars 3 times in my driveway. My wife has hit two cars, one trailer, and two bikes in my driveway, my complaint is this is too expensive. Expensive driveway. Stam, I guess I'll be seeing your shop.

He does good work Addicted. Mine has been in there twice in the last 8 mos!

Remind me to NEVER park in Addicted's driveway! Wow.

I think I need to buy the 5 acres across the street and make it my own personal large parking lot. She and her mom can park there, everyone else in my driveway.

Can you give my wife some driving lessons, especially when in parking lots Aunty...

It would come across better, she'd be more receptive to a lesson from someone of the same gender, definately not her husband.

When I was doing the Jet boat thing the WWA had a thing just like that. They would draw numbers in the morning. Then some guy would spend the day with your wife, in your truck with your boat teaching her how to back up, how to load and unload, and how to drive the boat. I spent the day with some other guys wife doing the same thing. Worked great, I never got mad at that lady once, and my wife said the dude that went with her was way better than me at instructions.

To this day I don't think he taught her a single thing " almost IS NOT A G-DAM MEASUREMENT " neither is "SORT OF"...

Aunty M I am impressed I drove bus for a while just about did me in

'tis me.

Who else is going to put up with him?

OK, first of all I am the father of SEVEN daughters, that is 6 natural and one adopted step daughter. I love them all to death. Wish I had a boy, but my 4 year old daughter makes up for it. Any kid, boy or girl, goes up to a newly caught silver and pats it on the head and says.."Poor fishy...daddy is gonna eat you." makes up for not having a boy. IN the end, they are all girl. I always wanted a boy to go fishing, play ball with and someone to pal around with. I do have a grandson!!!!
All in all, I wouldn't change a thing!!!! Ok maybe a boy!!! I keep teasing the wife for one more try!
The best thing is...no one uses my razor, I get the bathroom all by myself, I never have to take them to the bathroom in public!
So there are some bright points!!!!

Joe (I am not shooting blanks!!!) aka Daddy