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#357771 - 06/09/07 07:45 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: steeliefreak]
Mergantroider Offline
Professional Tveecher

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Rockport,TX
i am getting flamed in some private messages. i want to clear up that the piece of shad i used was more like a chunk of skin on the belly. the #6 hooks on these shad darts cant hold much. i was incidentally fishing for shad, casting out for shad, and was hooking shad....and yes i had a feeling that a sturgeon could be had on that dart.

Next on the list....no sturgeon was removed form the water, or harmed. I went out of my way to make sure these fish were handled properly and correctly.

The regs on this matter are very confusing. i plan on making a call to find out exactly WTF they are talking about here. Any person that looks at those can misconstrue ( i am not misconstrueing...read it...it says you can fish there) that sturgeon can be caught...and kept...from where we were. they do some wacky stuff sometimes. So stop with the hate mail.

Next up...yes i was the instegator on this matter. I personally used a piece of skin of the shad to fish. i saw vince with a fish on as i was fishing so i assumed he used a piece to because we were all kidding around about hooking a full shad up ( as a joke) we made some jokes about it. I did see him hook a fish right next to shore as a sturgeon actually lunged at his shad dart while he was reeling in. i was standing 20 feet down stream...vince couldnt see his dart so he never new until his rod doubled over that he had a fish on. So dont email me saying we were SNAGGING sturgeon. Far from the truth. Apperantly Vince used a shad dart on both hooked fish.

it was fun...as far as i know...legal...and until i find out otherwise...i will say a good fun legal time \:\)
_________________________
“If fishing is interfering with your job, get another job.”


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#357814 - 06/10/07 01:26 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Mergantroider]
buzzerbaby Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 08/15/00
Posts: 107
Loc: Longview, WA
I haven't fished up there in a while but we used to hook up on the shad then just reel them in to the shore and keep 'em on the hook until one of the big guys would show up. it was a blast watching them chase your hooked shad around until they finally were able to suck it in. Of course sometimes you lost your dart but most times you could just point your rod at the fish and straighten the hooks right out sans shad. kind of cuts the monotony of the day.

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#357824 - 06/10/07 02:22 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: buzzerbaby]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
We stopped by there last year after a day on the Wind River, we had our limit of salmon early so we decided to play with some shad. If I remember correctly we had 3 sturgeon suck up shad darts but never stood a chance against them.

What I got the most kick out of was watching those 8-10 foot sturgeon swim along the shore lines and suck on shad that were on team russia's and team cambodias stringers. After seeing it happen a couple times we started threading up our shad on 20 pound mono and tossed them out (no hook) as far as we could and they'd drift in a settle. It was a riot to play tug-o-war by hand with those monsters. Every time they'd grab the shad we'd pull them a little closer to shore until we could see the oversize that was chewing on them.... They'd suck them in and we'd pull them right back out of their mouth. You could see them get a little pissed and come so close to shore they would have their backs sticking out of water inhaling our shad....

Pretty smart critters...

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#357827 - 06/10/07 02:27 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: buzzerbaby]
VHawk. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2744
If it had been legal to land 6 foot long fish and we knew for sure the season was open, that sturgeon Merg had on would have been dead. It was one of the finest examples of light line fishing I've seen. However we weren't going to set a tail rope on the fish, and like hell if they even make nets that big. The only way we were going to get a pic, was if I tailed it in deeper water. Hence my skivies. I got within 5 feet of that fish multiple times, it was incredible that the line held for as long as it did. Usually a guy fishing ultralight tackle would have a shock leader or something. Nope, it was ten pound test all the way to the fishes snout.

Actually this discussion might help out the dept with clarifying the rules on sturgeon fishing. The sturgeon I kept on the Cowlitz last year produced even greater befuddlement, and we had a copy of the regs in the boat with us. It was actually 2 1/2 inches longer than the minumum size required, but we misread the rules and figured the fish to only be about 1/2 inch longer than min.

Well add to that emergency openings and closures, deadlines that either move or are undefined in the emergency regs, different length requirements for different sections of river, CnR allowed or not allowed during non retention days, etc etc... It has kept me from putting another sturgeon in a cooler, or even targeting sturgeon for fear that I"ll be breaking some new rule, or misunderstanding an old one.

The complexity of the regs keeps alot of regular folks from participating in not just the sturgeon fisheries, but salmon fisheries as well. Makes me recall a story I heard about the Hoodsport salmon hatchery. I don't know if its an urban myth, but I've heard it told more than once that it was popularly believed that the area in front of the hatchery was offlimits, when in truth it was very much legal to fish there. Someone who read the regs carefully, challenged the hatchery manager when he tried fishing there and was threatened with a ticket. When the game warden reviewed the regs he agreed with the angler that the area was indeed open, and now 20 years later is one of the more popular fisheries on Hood Canal.

Merg read the rules and his conclusion is the same as the average person would have concluded. He's hyper as all hell, but an honest kid. If he thought he was doing something wrong, he wouldn't have done it and posted pics about it. He gave that monster an epic fight on his noodle rod. Nobody should be giving him grief about that.

I read the emerg rules, and intergrated it internally with all the other regs, and all I got was anxiety and confusion. I'll mull over how things could have been written more clearly, and maybe it'll help someone else as well.

VHAwk

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#357830 - 06/10/07 02:45 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: VHawk.]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
 Originally Posted By: VHawk
If it had been legal to land 6 foot long fish and we knew for sure the season was open, that sturgeon Merg had on would have been dead. It was one of the finest examples of light line fishing I've seen. However we weren't going to set a tail rope on the fish, and like hell if they even make nets that big. The only way we were going to get a pic, was if I tailed it in deeper water. Hence my skivies. I got within 5 feet of that fish multiple times, it was incredible that the line held for as long as it did. Usually a guy fishing ultralight tackle would have a shock leader or something. Nope, it was ten pound test all the way to the fishes snout.

Actually this discussion might help out the dept with clarifying the rules on sturgeon fishing. The sturgeon I kept on the Cowlitz last year produced even greater befuddlement, and we had a copy of the regs in the boat with us. It was actually 2 1/2 inches longer than the minumum size required, but we misread the rules and figured the fish to only be about 1/2 inch longer than min.

Well add to that emergency openings and closures, deadlines that either move or are undefined in the emergency regs, different length requirements for different sections of river, CnR allowed or not allowed during non retention days, etc etc... It has kept me from putting another sturgeon in a cooler, or even targeting sturgeon for fear that I"ll be breaking some new rule, or misunderstanding an old one.

The complexity of the regs keeps alot of regular folks from participating in not just the sturgeon fisheries, but salmon fisheries as well. Makes me recall a story I heard about the Hoodsport salmon hatchery. I don't know if its an urban myth, but I've heard it told more than once that it was popularly believed that the area in front of the hatchery was offlimits, when in truth it was very much legal to fish there. Someone who read the regs carefully, challenged the hatchery manager when he tried fishing there and was threatened with a ticket. When the game warden reviewed the regs he agreed with the angler that the area was indeed open, and now 20 years later is one of the more popular fisheries on Hood Canal.

Merg read the rules and his conclusion is the same as the average person would have concluded. He's hyper as all hell, but an honest kid. If he thought he was doing something wrong, he wouldn't have done it and posted pics about it. He gave that monster an epic fight on his noodle rod. Nobody should be giving him grief about that.

I read the emerg rules, and intergrated it internally with all the other regs, and all I got was anxiety and confusion. I'll mull over how things could have been written more clearly, and maybe it'll help someone else as well.

VHAwk


Don't stress it... As much as peolple want there to be, there's no scientific evidence that a sturgeon fought and landed on 10 pound test for 1-10 hours will suffer any worse than a shaker cranked up and released in a minute on 80 pound test in 59 degree water....

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#357859 - 06/10/07 11:49 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: stlhdr1]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4681
Loc: Sequim
Vhawk - more justification for our regulation review committee in the EAC

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#357861 - 06/10/07 12:14 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: bushbear]
Irie Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
FYI--A couple years ago there was a 60"+ Sturgeon landed on 4# test at Swafford Pond near Riffe Lake.

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#357910 - 06/10/07 07:00 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Irie]
Jaba'da butt Offline
Spawner

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 736
Loc: Kelso, wa.
My friend and I came back down from the Wind river an dstopped there to fish for shad (we had caught a chrome hen on the Wind). I didn't have the right gear to fish for shad ,but found a real small lime green spin-n-glo with white wings and casted out and caught 3 or 4 shad , then about an hour later I casted out and hooked a big fish , didn't know until I had seen color out 6 yards from shore and was chrome! I played it awhile and handed the rod to my friend so he could get in on the action, around 10 to 15 minutes we had it to the rocks and a russian fellow next to us had a net . We got it and realized it was a Big summer Chinook and the season was closed so we hurried to get it in the water to revive it all the time we had an Indian lady standing next to us badgering us that we couldn't keep it ( we Knew the regs.) The fish came too and swam away , I told the lady that we know what the laws of the land are and told her that her brother up the river would probably catch that fish in his net and dry out in the back of his truck at the local watering hole!

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#358005 - 06/11/07 10:42 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Jaba'da butt]
Mergantroider Offline
Professional Tveecher

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Rockport,TX
ha ha ha ha...well played sir...well played \:\) we did see a giant of summer chinook jump i would peg around 30 lbs. all chrome. Team cambodia got real excited and pointed as it jumped 10 feet off shore \:\)
_________________________
“If fishing is interfering with your job, get another job.”


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#358006 - 06/11/07 10:45 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Mergantroider Offline
Professional Tveecher

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Rockport,TX


i would need VHAWK and hohbomb to confirm this...bit this looks to be (using the k14 kwikfish as a reference) about the size of the fish i hooked on 10 lbs line.


Edited by Mergantroider (06/11/07 10:48 AM)
_________________________
“If fishing is interfering with your job, get another job.”


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#358007 - 06/11/07 10:47 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Mergantroider]
Mergantroider Offline
Professional Tveecher

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Rockport,TX
i was looking at their pictures and went...hey...hmmm thats about the right size. We could see the fish really well with our polorized glasses on. that ast half hour the fish stayed within 15 feet of shore with numerous attempts to land
_________________________
“If fishing is interfering with your job, get another job.”


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#358029 - 06/11/07 12:03 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: Mergantroider]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13943
Loc: Tuleville
That' a K-15.

That fish was in the 7' - 7.5' range.
_________________________
Tule King Paker

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#358043 - 06/11/07 12:43 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: The Moderator]
STRIKE ZONE Offline
GOOD LUCK

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 11969
Loc: Hobart,Wa U.S.A
Sounds like you had some fun.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

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#358046 - 06/11/07 01:13 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: STRIKE ZONE]
Mergantroider Offline
Professional Tveecher

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Rockport,TX
then thats about the size. i was within 5 feet of the beast. vince almost kissed the thing( he almost fell on the fish)
_________________________
“If fishing is interfering with your job, get another job.”


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#358141 - 06/11/07 09:23 PM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: steeliefreak]
jandlfishingguide Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/04/06
Posts: 1191
Merg and Vhawk, Not to upset either of you BUT.......

Sturgeon fishing is CLOSED in the area you were fishing at that time you were fishing! Can't even bait up for them and catch and release! You need to get into my boat and go with me below Marker 85 where the 2 yellow signs are on the bank.

May 1st to July 31st Closed for fishing for STURGEON from Bonneville Dam downstream to a line crossing the river at Marker 85


Just an FYI...........Hate to see you get a ticket

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#358158 - 06/12/07 12:00 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: jandlfishingguide]
VHawk. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2744
Pretty much exactly what the poster I read at the launch right near the juvenile bypass facility said:

"Sunday added to weekly sturgeon retention season below Bonneville Dam

Action 1: Above Wauna power lines

White sturgeon retention will be allowed on Sundays in addition to the current weekly retention days of Thursdays, Fridays, and "Saturdays from February 1 through July 31 and from October 1 through December 31, 2007. Sturgeon may be caught and released, but not retained, Mondays through Wednesdays and during August and September.

Effective date: Feb. 1 through July 31 and Oct. 1 through Dec. 31.

Location: The Columbia River and tributaries from the Wauna power lines (near Cathlamet) upstream to Bonneville Dam."


Now if I was a simple man, fished maybe once a month, high school educated, to me that bulletin tells me I'm ok to fish up to Bonneville dam. Unfortunatly I know just enough to confuse myself. Like I said before, the sturgeon regs are a trap for any angler who is not a lawyer, or indoctrinated into the fishery by a master angler. The last time I hooked into a sturgeon that was very much legal to keep, I was nauseated because I was sure I had overlooked some regulation, or misread the rulebook.

I can't complain too much since I haven't called together my subcommittee to discuss pamphlet changes. I'll make it a priority after the June 16th thing is over. I don't want any moms or dads out on the river to worry about whether they might be breaking the law by sturgeon fishing with their kids.


VHawk



Thinking about this...maybe the Dept needs a test group of volunteers who are as close to the average license buyer as possible. Show them a copy of the regs and then ask them questions like is it legal to keep a salmon caught on x river July 15? Or can an angler keep any sturgeon caught immediately below Bonniville dam? etc etc... I wonder how the average person would do on a test like that.




Edited by VHawk (06/12/07 12:06 AM)

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#358164 - 06/12/07 12:38 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: VHawk.]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
 Originally Posted By: VHawk
Pretty much exactly what the poster I read at the launch right near the juvenile bypass facility said:

"Sunday added to weekly sturgeon retention season below Bonneville Dam

Action 1: Above Wauna power lines

White sturgeon retention will be allowed on Sundays in addition to the current weekly retention days of Thursdays, Fridays, and "Saturdays from February 1 through July 31 and from October 1 through December 31, 2007. Sturgeon may be caught and released, but not retained, Mondays through Wednesdays and during August and September.

Effective date: Feb. 1 through July 31 and Oct. 1 through Dec. 31.

Location: The Columbia River and tributaries from the Wauna power lines (near Cathlamet) upstream to Bonneville Dam."


Now if I was a simple man, fished maybe once a month, high school educated, to me that bulletin tells me I'm ok to fish up to Bonneville dam. Unfortunatly I know just enough to confuse myself. Like I said before, the sturgeon regs are a trap for any angler who is not a lawyer, or indoctrinated into the fishery by a master angler. The last time I hooked into a sturgeon that was very much legal to keep, I was nauseated because I was sure I had overlooked some regulation, or misread the rulebook.

I can't complain too much since I haven't called together my subcommittee to discuss pamphlet changes. I'll make it a priority after the June 16th thing is over. I don't want any moms or dads out on the river to worry about whether they might be breaking the law by sturgeon fishing with their kids.


VHawk



Thinking about this...maybe the Dept needs a test group of volunteers who are as close to the average license buyer as possible. Show them a copy of the regs and then ask them questions like is it legal to keep a salmon caught on x river July 15? Or can an angler keep any sturgeon caught immediately below Bonniville dam? etc etc... I wonder how the average person would do on a test like that.




I hear ya V-hawk. The regs are absolutely pathetically written. Not even considering the emergency closure BS....hell half the time two enforcement officers will give two different answers to the same question. It is not a friendly atmosphere for those that WANT to OBEY the rules. Poachers and tweakers...well...they're of limits........

In any case it looks like you guys had a blast. You and Merg don't seem to be the ones we need to be concerned about....Tight lines.

RVW
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#358165 - 06/12/07 12:52 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: RowVsWade]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6211
Loc: zipper
Sounds like a great day.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#358168 - 06/12/07 01:17 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: fish4brains]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4681
Loc: Sequim
I hope we can do some good with the sub-committee. Sorry that I have to miss the meeting this Saturday. It should be interesting.

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#358175 - 06/12/07 02:15 AM Re: Mergantroider goes for line class record :) [Re: bushbear]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 546
Loc: Des Moines
My thought was, that there was a opening of sturgeon notice down at beacon rock. I think it was open close to bonneville I don't remeber what it said because I was not fishing for sturgeon. But at the dam there is a deadline for shad and other species, and below that there is another deadline for sturgeon fishing, with a sign and information if I remember right...

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