.........

What? ...all those pics and NOT ONE of any marijuana or cocaine!!!!!

Good thing I know who not to buy any coke or weed from in Victoria BC now.
Thanks for the heads up!!

...Not like it's worth the trip now the Loonie is worth more than the Buck these days anyway...



..just givin you a hard time man..

the coho goes slow enough the you could have skipped a herring off the back

Monte's is a great place! Great town. Brings back memories of fake boobs with blow all over them It was even better when the exchange rate was 1.50..... Thanks Bush...

I have pics of the drugs i just was not sure if it was a good idea to post them, but i will if you want. Ya montes is nice! We got a couple nice deals on drugs and got ripped off a couple times...mostly the cocaine, we had a couple buys of rock cocaine that we paid 40 dollars for and it did not even weigh anything but it still tested + for cocaine

yeah, pics of drugs!

...and post more pics of the narcs too, please!

Just my lonely opinion but busting MJ growers or sellers is a waste of taxpayer money. Half my friends are smokers and are otherwise just 9-5, tax-paying citizenry. They aren't the real problem. When it comes to violent crime, I just can't remember seeing a victim who said, "He gets real angry and beats me when he smokes pot."

My suggestion? Go after the people who victimize their whole community, go after the tweakers and crackheads. If the gov wants to chase and break up meth labs and people dealing meth and coke, that would be a real service. And when you execute a search warrant, and break into that double wide trailer with the leaky roof, and find a lab running in the same room with the baby's wax cardboard crib, beat the crap out the guy for me. I won't say a damn thing, I'll keep my ACLU card buried in my wallet.


P.S. And post a pic of the fishing gear in the back of the trailer, we'd all like to get our stuff back.

I'm with Vince on this one,. Busting marijuana buyers and sellers is a waste of time and money, plus it plugs up prisons. How about a focus on a real problem like meth?

not alot of meth around victoria, we got most of the bud guys on trafficing charges, and we did go after the tweakers and crackheads, that who be bought our crack from

Only problem is, Marijuana is a gateway drug. Not many kids/people start off smoking crack and doing meth...

Most started off doing weed and they then decide they can push the envelope a bit further...

Agreed it does plug up prisons, but would you rather have people slanging marijuana right near your kids schools or kids IN your sons/daughters schools or would you rather have them in jail?

Asperin is a gateway drug.

Marijuana is an HERB, not a drug.

Healing of the Nation... "Slang" On!!

I've never heard of Asperin being a gateway drug. Ask 10 kids what the first real "drug" they did and I can bet that 9 out of 10 will say weed. Kid's who pop over the counter pain relievers are the kids who can't get a big enough high out of weed and are emotionally uncontrollable and need to try something like testing how many Advils their stomach can handle...

Tweekers and crack heads ? Alcohol has destroyed more families then ALL other drugs combined. But weed is not legal? GO FIGURE?

There is NO proof marijuana is a gateway drug. In fact several studies say otherwise. here is just one such study.

http://www.drugscience.org/sfu/sfu_gateway.html

If we were to choose to eliminate only one of the two drugs - alcohol or marijuana - we would be much better off eliminating alcohol.

Like Vince I have many friends who occasionally have a puff. They all hold jobs, function well in society etc. I would be willing to bet alcohol is much more of a gateway drug than marijuana.

We need to legalize marijuana and work hard to crack down on crack and meth.

Did you ever hear of some stoner breaking into cars? Well maybe for a bag of Doritos.

I've never seen someone get stoned on pot and decide "hey, I think I will try that cocaine...gimme some!"...but I've seen lots of drunk people do it.

The only gateway that pot opens is the gateway to the couch and snack food binges.

Fish on...

Todd

The first drug I ever tried was cigarettes. That is the bad one,followed by alcohol. I liked acid and heroin.....

I did not say it was a "proven" gateway drug, but it's commonly the first drug people start with and then it leads them up to worse drugs. Agreed?

And I also agree, alcohol, because of it's legality and how easy it is to get, is much more of a problem in society then weed is.

And by "gateway" drug doesn't mean that once a kid takes a few rips from a bong he all of a sudden decides that he wants to sniff a line of coke or some other drug. It's over an extended period of time where he/she starts getting involved with other people (such as dealing or just new "weed friends")who also do weed and other drugs, and that peer pressure rubs off and that individual then gets into trying new drugs...

I see how there is a gigantic problem with meth and other, far worse drugs and narcotics other then weed, but the law is the law and I've had the unfortunate experience of losing my best friend to weed.

Nope. I can say that that isn't true. I just graduated HS so I know firsthand. Kids do take febreeze and stupid stuff like that to their nose, but not as many kids do that as they do light up weed...

Yer high if ya think people don't smoke cigs before reefers.

"I did not say it was a "proven" gateway drug, but it's commonly the first drug people start with and then it leads them up to worse drugs. Agreed?"

No, not agreed...I'll be that right now there are way more alcoholics that turned into cokeheads and junkies than there are potheads that have turned into cokeheads and junkies...

People start out with all kinds of different drugs, and I'll guarantee you that drinking in high school causes more addicts and junkies than smoking pot ever has, does, or will...

Fish on...

Todd

FH07,

No, I don't agree either. Tobacco and alcohol are the typical gateway drugs for the vast majority of people.

If you just graduated from high school, you haven't been around for very long. Some of us are 3 times your age, plus or minus, and have seen - and used and abused - a thing or two.

What do you mean by "losing your best friend to weed?" Do you mean that he or she is using it or actually died from it? BTW, last I read on the subject, no one has ever been documented as dying from smoking pot. Not many other drugs you can say that about, including the legal ones.

As you mature and gain a little life experience, and if you do a little research, you'll discover as most of us have that the gov't. screwed up royally by getting its panties all in a wad over pot and catagorizing it in the same class as heroin, which is beyond flat out stupid. But then that's gov't. for ya'.

Please do yourself a favor and research this topic before you jump into a discussion like this again. You'll have a much better time when you're well informed.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I think it's more of a problem because it makes certain people violent AND stupid. I'm thinking of the rapes, assaults, and accidents I've seen where alcohol was involved.

I generally don't see people who are placid, flacid, and stupid come into the ER. The trip from the couch to the kitchen is at worst an ultra low impact collision with a wall or door.



On this I think we might find some agreement. It's not so much the drug, as the people who a potential abuser associates. But there's a huge chunk of middle suburban America who are out smoking pot maybe once a month or so. And who are otherwise holding professional career jobs, managers, or such, and who pay their bills, and who attend their kids soccer games and PTA meetings. They smoke, probably the same way you drink. On their own time, and without putting others at risk.



Did he turn into such a pothead you didn't want to hang around with him? I'm guessing it wasn't an overdose. I don't even think it's possible to die of an overdose from MJ. It is probably possible to have a chronic MJ user die because their wife couldn't take their BS anymore and beat them to death. But a direct overdose death, not so likely.

And that whole "the law is the law" thing...LE uses a tremendous amount of discretion over what they decide to enforce, and what they let pass. Although ultimately it's the citizenry that must give the final guidance and mandate through changes in legislation, to those who uphold the law.

I think some changes are long overdue.

Thanks FishHunter for the chance to have a friendly debate on the subject.

VHawk


BTW, Before some jackass complains to the nursing board that I'm always high. I stay clean cause I have to pee in a cup, but more importantly because I don't have desire to blow my free time doing anything other than fishing, playing poker, and making whoppee. Pot is not a performance enhancing drug.

haha i love the legalize the sticky icky vibe im gettin off this thread

think of all the underfunded gov't programs that could benefit by legalizing pot. Education and healthcare come to mind. I'd like to see our tax burden decreased too. I am tird of being taxed to subsidise these programs as well as to pay to house these so called "criminals" that sell dime bags of weed.

More kids at my school smoked the herbs before the cigs.

Plugs up prisons? Really? Nationwide .7% of inmates are in on marijuana possession only. .3% are first timers busted for marijuana only. .3%! hardly a plugging. This is nationwide. I couldnt find stats for Wa. but it would have to be less than that. My experience would tell me that the majority of that .3% is happening in the south and not anywhere on the left coast.

If you are arrested for being in possession of less than 40g in Wa. you are never going to see the inside of a prison. Maybe a day or two after the third or fourth arrest. If you get busted three or four times, you are an idiot and have killed way to many brain cells already and should stop smoking.

I think that Fishhunter meant he lost a friend to weed, from choking on a Pop tart....

Salmo,
By gateway drugs I've been referring to those that are illegal. I haven't been including alcohol and tobacco. I do agree, alcohol has a bigger impact and so does tobacco on our society then weed. I do not disagree there....

Second of all, we are misunderstanding each other and I am well informed of the issue. Please don't say "research it more and you'll have a better time." No one needs that. It's the internet... That's a main problem with this site is that people's ego's are way too big and they put people down to try and act superior...


Losing my friend to weed: No he didn't die, but those facts that no one have died from weed are skewed. That's the "pro-pot" side of the road...

One friend (different one then the lost friend) of mine had a heart attack after smoking some weed. And this happened about a day after he smoked. That was a shock to watch him drop on the ground unconscious at a teriyaki restaraunt after complaining of heartburn and then wake back up 10 seconds later. Sure, it was most likely laced with something, but those sorts of incidents aren't included in those facts, nor are people who have been driving after smoking. That's liking taking all the DUI's out of the alcohol-involved death counts.

The lost friend though, no he didn't die, he became the biggest s**thead you could imagine. 3 years ago we were hanging out every day either playing golfing or fishing and enjoying high school, but shortly after that, weed was introduced to him and he went downhill from there. Fast at that... Soon enough, he started hanging out with shady kids and stealing stuff and breaking into houses and what not. Not to mention blowing us off after we tried to hang out with him. Most of the time he blew us off to go make a few bills by dealing weed instead of going through with his prior plans which were us. We would be like "Where are you man we were supposed to chill today???" His response: "Nah man I had to make a deal man I made a couple hundred on this one man you understand me right?" And I can't imagine how many times he pulled the "Im done with weed" card and tried to get back on our good side.....He's also never done anything worse then weed. So you can't say he's a cokehead or methhead...

Not cool in my opinion...

If you have a problem with the government spending so much time and money on trying to get rid of pot, I'd suggest taking political action about it...Complaining about it is one thing, doing something about it is another. I do not know if you have taken any action about trying to change it, so I can't say your only complaining...If you are complaining and acting on it, then that's completely ok, cause your fighing for something.

So that makes 1% of inmates in prison because of marijuana? Assuming that those facts are true, that is hardly a problem...

I was saying that if only 1% of inmates are in for weed, then that's not a problem, referring to the inmates plugging up prisons...


About the kid who had the heart attack: He stopped right after that. After having his life like that on the line, he quit it. Didn't even do it much. Occasionally at parties and such. Guess where he got that from? The pothead "lost" friend...

That kid didn't do anything else. I've heard from all his shady friends that all he would do was weed...

Anyways, I'm not saying that the responsible users of weed are the problem in our community. It's the guys filtering it into schools. I've heard of plenty of adults who do some occasionally tree blowing and are successfull, responsible, people...

FH07,

Usually I'm all about the internet research thing, but in this case your experience over the next 10 years of your career will probably push your thinking on this one closer to the guys on the board who are flipping you sh.et about this.

We don't agree on this issue, but good job keeping your cool. Maybe we'll revisit this argument again in 5 years.

Peace...

VHawk

Sorry to hear you lost your friend. I too lost my best friend and roomate to alcohol and cocaine. One night after returning from the bar very drunk he couldn't get a hold of his dealer so he stuck a 9mm in his mouth and pulled the trigger. I saw the mess and had to call the cops.

Your argument sucks!

Some of us would be a danger to society WITHOUT weed.

When someone refers to "losing a friend to drugs" it doesn't mean they quit hanging out with them because they became total losers, it means the fu*ker died from an overdose, burned to death in a Methlab explosion, tried to rip off the wrong mofo's, got loaded and drove, got popped by Dudley Doright and got azz-punked to death in prison, had a psychotic episode and ate a bullet, or got some nasty infection from a needle they found in a wastebasket.

If losing a friend to dope only meant they turned into total losers then I could say 98% of my high school class was "lost" to dope.

By the way the aforementionned scenarios all happened to people I was aquainted with.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Comparing weed to Coke and crank is like comparing Laughing Gas to Zyklon-B and Phosgene.

the 1% argument is BS. A single person in prison for pot is one too many. I think some would be surprised that Nevada used to have some of the nations strictest laws. If I remember right you could get 20 years for a single joint not that many years ago. In our state in the 70's state patrol officers vacuumed your auto carpets for seeds. Over time Fish Hunter you'll realize that a free society should mean letting people do what they want as long as they aren't harming others. You want to shoot heroin go right ahead. Steal in order to get it you go to prison.

FH07 - I know how you feel man, I lost a couple of my friends to NASCAR.

One day I am talking with my bud and I asked him when we were going fishing again and he said "Not this weekend its the Outback 400 at Chupasequa Raceway, Little E is going to take it". I was like "Noooooooo!".

The last time I saw him he was in Wal-Mart with one of those faux racing jackets with the name brands of all kinds of stupid-sh!t all over it, looking for a foam cooler and a replacement tail light for his house.

What do you mean by free society? Do what ever you want with no consequences?

I used to be a Republican too Fish Hunter.
Somewhere in the last 6 or so years I changed my mind. I was even a R who liked to smoke.
Libertarian...it's where it's at.

Do you think that we should have that type of a free society?

Nope Jake I was talking to stlhead. Sorry for the confusion.

Obsolutely! The laws I hate the most are those that "protect us from ourselves". If you aren't harming anyone but yourself WTF should the government have anything to say about it? I'm surprised they let us play with hooks.

LOL, aint that the truth.

stlhd, I am sure this administration just hasn't thought of funding a research group to find out how bad hooks really are. I think I will write my congressman and let him know my concern.

Thats funny stuff right there..

That would just be a waste of taxpayers money to research that!

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

Thanks for the laugh!

I don't know where the 1%number came from but here are some different numbers.


Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 723,627 persons for marijuana violations in 2001, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the second highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprises nearly half of all drug arrests in the United States.

"These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said Keith Stroup, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "In fact, the war on drugs is largely a war on pot smokers. This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that should be dedicated toward combating serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."

Of those charged with marijuana violations, 88.6 percent - some 641,108 Americans - were charged with possession only. The remaining 82,518 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses - even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.

The total number of marijuana arrests far exceeds the total number of arrests for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

Since 1992, approximately six million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges, a greater number than the entire populations of Alaska, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming combined. Annual marijuana arrests have more than doubled in that time.

"It's time we stopped arresting adults who use marijuana responsibly," says Stroup.

YEAR MARIJUANA ARRESTS

2001 723,627
2000 734,498
1999 704,812
1998 682,885
1997 695,200
1996 641,642
1995 588,963
1994 499,122
1993 380,689
1992 342,314















Prisoners


"Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constituted the largest group of Federal inmates (55%) in 2001, down from 60% in 1995 (table 18). On September 30, 2001, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 78,501 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 52,782 in 1995."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2002 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, July 2003), p. 11.


In 2001, drug law violators comprised 20.4% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 246,100 out of 1,208,700 State prison inmates.

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2002 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, July 2003), Table 17, p. 10.


Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.

Source: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).


"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.


"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.


"In 1995, 23% of state prisoners were incarcerated for drug offenses in contrast to 9% of drug offenders in state prisons in 1986. In fact, the proportion of drug offenders in the state prison population nearly tripled by 1990, when it reached 21%, and has remained at close to that level since then. The proportion of federal prisoners held for drug violations doubled during the past 10 years. In 1985, 34% of federal prisoners were incarcerated for drug violations. By 1995, the proportion had risen to 60%."

Source: Craig Haney, Ph.D., and Philip Zimbardo, Ph.D., "The Past and Future of U.S. Prison Policy: Twenty-five Years After the Stanford Prison Experiment," American Psychologist, Vol. 53, No. 7 (July 1998), p. 715.


According to ONDCP, federal spending to incarcerate drug offenders totals nearly $3 Billion a year -- $2.525 Billion by the Bureau of Prisons, and $429.4 Million by Federal Prisoner Detention.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy, "National Drug Control Strategy: FY 2003 Budget Summary" (Washington, DC: Office of the President, February 2002), Table 3, pp. 7-9.


"The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 701 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by Russia (606), Belarus (554), Kazakhstan and the Virgin Islands (both 522), the Cayman Islands (501), Turkmenistan (489), Belize (459), Bermuda (447), Suriname (437), Dominica (420) and Ukraine (415). "However, more than three fifths of countries (60.5%) have rates below 150 per 100,000. United Kingdom’s rate of 141 per 100,000 of the national population places it above midpoint in the World List; it is the highest among countries of the European Union.)"

Source: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (Fifth Edition)" (London, England, UK: Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate, 2003), p. 1.


"Over 9 million people are held in penal institutions throughout the world, mostly as pre-trial detainees (remand prisoners) or having been convicted and sentenced. About half of these are in the United States (2.03m), Russia (0.86m) or China (1.51m plus pre-trial detainees and prisoners in 'administrative detention')." According to the US Census Bureau, the population of the US represents 4.6% of the world's total population (291,450,886 out of a total 6,303,683,217).

Source: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (Fifth Edition)" (London, England, UK: Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate, 2003), p. 1.; US Census Bureau, Population Division, from the web at http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html accessed July 8, 2003.


"Overall, the United States incarcerated 2,212,475 persons at yearend 2003." This total represents persons held in:

Federal and State Prisons 1,387,848 (which excludes State and Federal prisoners in local jails
Territorial Prisons 16,494
Local Jails 691,301
ICE Facilities 10,323
Military Facilities 2,165
Jails in Indian Country 2,006 (as of midyear 2002)
Juvenile Facilities 102,338 (as of October 2002)

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2003 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, Nov. 2004), p. 1.


"The rate of incarceration in prison and jail was 714 inmates per 100,000 residents in 2002, up from 601 in 1995. At yearend 2003, 1 in every 140 U.S. residents were incarcerated in State or Federal prison or a local jail."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2003 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, Nov. 2004), p. 2.


The U.S. nonviolent prisoner population is larger than the combined populations of Wyoming and Alaska.

Source: John Irwin, Ph. D., Vincent Schiraldi, and Jason Ziedenberg, America's One Million Nonviolent Prisoners (Washington, DC: Justice Policy Institute, 1999), pg. 4.


"Since 1995 the sentenced inmate population in State prisons has averaged a growth of 3.3% per year. During this period 15 States had an average annual growth of at least 5%, led by North Dakota (up 9.8%), Oregon (up 8.7%), and West Virginia (up 8.3%). Between 1995 and 2003 the Federal system grew an average of 7.7% per year, an average annual increase of 8,532 inmates."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2003 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, Nov. 2004), p. 4.


"In 2003 the growth in the number of inmates under State or Federal jurisdiction (2.1%) was less than the percentage increase recorded for 2002 (2.6%) (table 2). ( Jurisdiction is defined on page 10.) The population under the jurisdiction of State and Federal authorities increased by 29,901 inmates during 2003, smaller than the increase in 2002 (up 36,112). Since December 31, 1995, the US prison population has grown an average of 43,266 inmates per year (3.4%)."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2003 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, Nov. 2004), p. 2.


According to the US Justice Department, between 1990 and 2000 "Overall, the percentage of violent Federal inmates declined from 17% to 10%. While the number of offenders in each major offense category increased, the number incarcerated for a drug offense accounted for the largest percentage of the total growth (59%), followed by public-order offenders (32%)."

Source: Beck, Allen J., Ph.D., and Paige M. Harrison, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2001 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, July 2002), p. 14.


There were 5.9 million adults in the 'correctional population' by the end of 1998. This means that 2.9% of the U.S. adult population -- 1 in every 34 -- was incarcerated, on probation or on parole.

Source: Bonczar, Thomas & Glaze, Lauren, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Probation and Parole in the United States (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, August 1999), p. 1.


In 1990, of the 739,960 sentenced prisoners in Federal and State prisons, 370,400 were African-American. According to a 2004 report, "At yearend 2003 black males (586,300) outnumbered white males (454,300) and Hispanic males (251,900) among inmates with sentences of more than 1 year (table 11). More than 44% of all sentenced male inmates were black."

Source: Beck, Allen J., Ph.D., and Christopher Mumola, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1998 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, August 1999), p. 9; Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2003 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, Nov. 2004), p. 9, Table 11.


Assuming recent incarceration rates remain unchanged, an estimated 1 of every 20 Americans (5%) can be expected to serve time in prison during their lifetime. For African-American men, the number is greater than 1 in 4 (28.5%).

Source: Bonczar, T.P. & Beck, Allen J., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Lifetime Likelihood of Going to State or Federal Prison (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, March 1997), p. 1.


"Since 1982 total justice expenditures more than quadrupled from nearly $36 billion to over $167 billion, a 366% increase. The average annual increase for all levels of government between 1982 and 2001 was 8% (table 1)."

Source: Bauer, Lynn & Steven D. Owens, "Justice Expenditure and Employment in the United States, 2001" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May 2004), NCJ202792, p. 2.


"- Overall, local police spending represented 30% of the Nation's total justice expenditure, and State corrections accounted for the second largest portion, 23%. "- Police protection is primarily a local responsibility; accordingly, local governments spent 70% of the total police protection expenditure in the country in 2001. "- Corrections is primarily a State responsibility, and the State governments accounted for 63% of the Nation's corrections expenditure. "- Judicial and legal services in the United States were funded primarily by local (42%) and State (36%) governments."

Source: Bauer, Lynn & Steven D. Owens, "Justice Expenditure and Employment in the United States, 2001" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May 2004), NCJ202792, p. 4.


"Expansion of Nation's justice system, 1982-2001
"The increase in justice expenditures over nearly 20 years reflects the expansion of the Nation's justice system. For example, in 1982 the justice system employed approximately 1.27 million persons; in 2001 it reached over 2.2 million.
"Police protection
"One indicator of police workload, the FBI's arrest estimates for State and local police agencies, grew from 12 million in 1982 to an estimated 13.7 million in 2001. The number of employees in police protection increased from approximately 724,000 to over 1 million.
"Judicial and legal
"The judicial and legal workload, including civil and criminal cases, prosecutor functions, and public defender services, also expanded during this period. Cases of all kinds (criminal, civil, domestic, juvenile, and traffic) filed in the nearly 16,000 general and limited jurisdiction State courts went from about 86 million to 92.8 million in the 18-year period, 1984-2001. The juvenile court workload also expanded from 1 million delinquency cases in 1982 to nearly 1.7 million in 2000. The total of judicial and legal employees grew about 97% to over 488,000 persons in 2001.
"Corrections
"The total number of State and Federal inmates grew from 488,000 in 1985 to over 1.3 million in 2001. The number of local jail inmates tripled from approximately 207,000 in 1982 to over 631,000 in 2001.5 Adults on probation increased from over 1.3 to about 4 million persons. Overall, corrections employment more than doubled from nearly 300,000 to over 747,000 during this period."

Source: Bauer, Lynn & Steven D. Owens, "Justice Expenditure and Employment in the United States, 2001" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May 2004), NCJ202792, p. 6.


In 1997, there were 216,254 drug offenders in state prisons (out of a total State prison population of 1,046,706 that year). Of these, 92,373 were in for possession, 117,926 were in for trafficking, and 5,955 were in for other drug crimes. Only 41.9 percent of State drug offenders were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense.

Source: Mumola, Christopher J., "Substance Abuse and Treatment, State and Federal Prisoners, 1997" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, January 1999), p. 3, Table 1.


In 1997, there were 55,069 drug offenders in federal prisons (out of a total Federal prison population of 88,018 that year). Of these, 10,094 were in for possession, 40,053 were in for trafficking, and 4,922 were in for other drug crimes. Only 25 percent of Federal drug offenders were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense.

Source: Mumola, Christopher J., "Substance Abuse and Treatment, State and Federal Prisoners, 1997" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, January 1999), p. 3, Table 1.


"Nineteen percent of State prisoners, and 16% of Federal inmates said that they committed their current offense to obtain money for drugs. These percentages represent a slight increase from 1991, when 17% of State and 10% of Federal prisoners identified drug money as a motive for their current offense."

Source: Mumola, Christopher J., "Substance Abuse and Treatment, State and Federal Prisoners, 1997" (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, January 1999), p. 5.


"Department of corrections data show that about a fourth of those initially imprisoned for nonviolent crimes are sentenced for a second time for committing a violent offense. Whatever else it reflects, this pattern highlights the possibility that prison serves to transmit violent habits and values rather than to reduce them."

Source: Craig Haney, Ph.D., and Philip Zimbardo, Ph.D., "The Past and Future of U.S. Prison Policy: Twenty-five Years After the Stanford Prison Experiment," American Psychologist, Vol. 53, No. 7 (July 1998), p. 720.


"Over the past twenty-five years, the United States has built the largest prison system in the world. But despite a recent downturn in the crime rate, we remain far and away the most violent advanced industrial society on earth."

Source: Currie, E., Crime and Punishment in America (New York, NY: Metropolitan Books, Henry Holt and Company, Inc., 1998), p. 3.


"Since the definition of homicide is similar in most countries, absolute comparisons of rates are possible. For the period 1998 to 2000, the average rate (the number of homicides per 100,000 population) was 1.7 in EU Member States with the highest rates in Northern Ireland (3.1), Spain (2.8) Finland (2.6), Scotland (2.2) and Sweden (2.1). The rate in England & Wales (1.5) was below the average. For the other countries, the highest rates were found in South Africa (54.3), Estonia (11.4), Lithuania (8.9), Latvia (6.5) and the USA (5.9)."

Source: Barclay, Gordon & Cynthia Tavares, "International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2000," Home Office Bulletin 05/02 (London, England, UK: Home Office Research, Development, and Statistics Directorate, July 12, 2002), p. 3, from the web at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502.pdf, last accessed Oct. 12, 2002.


If one compares 1996 to 1984, the crime index is 13 points higher. This dramatic increase occurred during an era of mandatory minimum sentencing and "three strikes you're out."

Source: Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Reports 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997), p. 62, Table 1.


"We must have law enforcement authorities address the issue because if we do not, prevention, education, and treatment messages will not work very well. But having said that, I also believe that we have created an American gulag."

Source: Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey (USA, Ret.), Director, ONDCP, Keynote Address, Opening Plenary Session, National Conference on Drug Abuse Prevention Research, National Institute on Drug Abuse, September 19, 1996, Washington, DC, on the web at http://165.112.78.61/MeetSum/CODA/Keynote2.html


According to the Department of Justice, studies of recidivism report that "the amount of time inmates serve in prison does not increase or decrease the likelihood of recidivism, whether recidivism is measured as parole revocation, re-arrest, reconviction, or return to prison."

...well I guess we know where you stand on the issue, Dave.

That's brilliant!!


Thanks for keepin' it real.


HEALING OF THE NATION

Rocket Red, you take the f'ing cake.

FH07, you sound like a sharp guy but with more life experience, your opinion might change. Obviously, watching your friend have a heart attack must have been tramatic. You associate that with him having smoked marijuana the day before. I think a lot of people laughed at that association. I'd be surprised if a doctor confirmed that. I hope the doctors did some tests for some sort of congenital heart defect. Also, maybe Blades could chime in and tell us the percentage of confiscated weed that is "laced".

Anyway, I hope your friend is OK and, as VHawk said, you've done a good job in keeping your cool against this mob of treblehook-throwing stoners.

Also, I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned the absolute abuse of prescription drugs. FH07, I'd bet the use of Vicodin and stronger presription pills was higher than weed (and at least as easy to get) at your high school.

-Kaiser D.

Friend was ok. Doing all his normal stuff now...

They did plenty of tests and what not, had to wear one of those heart pulse meters for a few weeks.I think he smoked the laced stuff the day before AS WELL as a few other previous times and had unfortunately gotten into weed for about a month before that. I forgot to mention that to you all. I know the doctors didn't find anything wrong with his heart.

No problem about keeping cool. I don't take any of it personally. Everyone's got their own opinions and views, and if I want people to be cool with my opinions, then I gotta be cool with theirs. Being cool with other peoples opinions doesn't mean you have to believe them, just gotta respect em.

And unfortunately I went to a school with a lot of kids with a bit too much money and were dumb about it, and suprisingly the vicodin abuse wasn't that high. Weed was for sure much easier to get around there and vicodin was abused as well, just not nearly as much as weed.

Rocket is one funny MoFo. That Nascar stuff had me rolling...

I wish he'd write more. I'm surprised we haven't heard from that other mofo, Falwell's Right. He had some serious opinions about that devil weed.

From the "medias" standpoint, I thought ecstacy was one of the biggest drugs amongst high school kids now?

YES! Read the part where he says people should be able to do as they please AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T HARMING OTHERS. That's the key.

Not really. The media tries to do the whole scare tactic stuff by overexaggerating stuff...Several kids just got busted by feds I believe for having a couple hundred e pills. Those kids went to my school but dropped out and then it got worse for them..

[/quote]

The media tries to do the whole scare tactic stuff by overexaggerating stuff... [/quote]

wow. no way.

...you mean like the media and the government have done to "weed" for the last 60 odd years??

hmmm.

Dave-The 700,000 marijuana arrests for 2001 is probably accurate since the 2006 FBI stats are 800,000 out of 14,000,000 arrests. These are arrests! Not people that are going to prison. There's a big difference. The .7% and .3% are for the people acutally in prison for multiple marijuana charges and first time marijuana charges respectively. These stats are for marijuana only and do not include the cases where someone is charged with another felony and search incident to the arrest, weed is found and tacked on. I put the link for the FBI stats and the prison stats below. This was just a response to the plugging up prisons statement.

All of your prison stats are for drug offenses, not marijuana offenses. I can think of no better place for a crackhead than prison. These people comprise a huge portion of violent street crime. Pot heads, meth and heroin users will commit property crimes all day long to fuel their habit. I have seen dozens of people shot and killed because of something or another to do with crack cocaine. Let them rot...

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/whos_in_prison_for_marij/untangling_the_stats.pdf

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index.html

The media tries to do the whole scare tactic stuff by overexaggerating stuff... [/quote]

wow. no way.

...you mean like the media and the government have done to "weed" for the last 60 odd years??

hmmm. [/quote]

Yea i do agree they have overexaggerated the dangers of weed too. Like I said earlier, there are RESPONSIBLE and SUCCESSFUL people who do weed occasionally for fun..

I wrote a big 'Ol post and decided to just delete it rather than stir the "pot" more.

To group a person that smokes MJ in with METH MAGGOTS is about like saying a docile lap-Poodle is the same as a Pit Bull that has attacked a killed children.

Marijuana should be a LEGAL substance. Period. The ONLY reason it is illegal is so that the Government can claim "control" over the people.

Ignorance is everywhere.

Can ANYONE provide information on a robbery, street crime, etc. that was 100% MJ motivated? (aside from maybe the theft of a Twinkie)

Could you just see a bunch of (stoned) stoners trying to break into a place...now that would be funny to watch, I don't care who ya are!



ISO

1BIgHog:

We seem to agree that we need to do more about crack and meth. But that 700,000 marijuana arrests is a waste of time that should be used to track down real drugs. Instead we give a criminal record to some high school kid who does a doobie behind the school.

"I'm surprised we haven't heard from that other mofo, Falwell's Right. He had some serious opinions about that devil weed."

Vince...I saw him the Circle K buying a corn dog this morning at 6:15am...I told him we needed his input on this one...

Fish on...

Todd

OK, now let's get some TRUE FACTS into this discussion:

FROM: http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Myths and Facts

Highlights from the book Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. By Drs. Lynn Zimmer and John Morgan. New York: The Lindesmith Center, 1997.

Myth: Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifically. In the 1960s and 1970s, many people believed that marijuana was harmless. Today we know that marijuana is much more dangerous than previously believed.

Fact: In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

Myth: Marijuana Has No Medicinal Value. Safer, more effective drugs are available. They include a synthetic version of THC, marijuana's primary active ingredient, which is marketed in the United States under the name Marinol.

Fact: Marijuana has been shown to be effective in reducing the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, and reducing intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. There is also appreciable evidence that marijuana reduces muscle spasticity in patients with neurological disorders. A synthetic capsule is available by prescription, but it is not as effective as smoked marijuana for many patients. Pure THC may also produce more unpleasant psychoactive side effects than smoked marijuana. Many people use marijuana as a medicine today, despite its illegality. In doing so, they risk arrest and imprisonment.

Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits.

Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

Myth: Marijuana is a Gateway Drug. Even if marijuana itself causes minimal harm, it is a dangerous substance because it leads to the use of "harder drugs" like heroin, LSD, and cocaine.

Fact: Marijuana does not cause people to use hard drugs. What the gateway theory presents as a causal explanation is a statistic association between common and uncommon drugs, an association that changes over time as different drugs increase and decrease in prevalence. Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States today. Therefore, people who have used less popular drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and LSD, are likely to have also used marijuana. Most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the large majority of people, marijuana is a terminus rather than a gateway drug.

Myth: Marijuana Offenses Are Not Severely Punished. Few marijuana law violators are arrested and hardly anyone goes to prison. This lenient treatment is responsible for marijuana continued availability and use.

Fact: Marijuana arrests in the United States doubled between 1991 and 1995. In 1995, more than one-half-million people were arrested for marijuana offenses. Eighty-six percent of them were arrested for marijuana possession. Tens of thousands of people are now in prison or marijuana offenses. An even greater number are punished with probation, fines, and civil sanctions, including having their property seized, their driver's license revoked, and their employment terminated. Despite these civil and criminal sanctions, marijuana continues to be readily available and widely used.

Myth: Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure. Dutch law, which allows marijuana to be bought, sold, and used openly, has resulted in increasing rates of marijuana use, particularly in youth.

Fact: The Netherlands' drug policy is the most nonpunitive in Europe. For more than twenty years, Dutch citizens over age eighteen have been permitted to buy and use cannabis (marijuana and hashish) in government-regulated coffee shops. This policy has not resulted in dramatically escalating cannabis use. For most age groups, rates of marijuana use in the Netherlands are similar to those in the United States. However, for young adolescents, rates of marijuana use are lower in the Netherlands than in the United States. The Dutch people overwhelmingly approve of current cannabis policy which seeks to normalize rather than dramatize cannabis use. The Dutch government occasionally revises existing policy, but it remains committed to decriminalization.

Myth: Marijuana Kills Brain Cells. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

Fact: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

Myth: Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome. Marijuana makes users passive, apathetic, and uninterested in the future. Students who use marijuana become underachievers and workers who use marijuana become unproductive.

Fact: For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first.

Myth: Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognition. Under the influence of marijuana, people are unable to think rationally and intelligently. Chronic marijuana use causes permanent mental impairment.

Fact: Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of the intoxication. There is no convincing evidence that heavy long-term marijuana use permanently impairs memory or other cognitive functions.

Myth: Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness. Among adolescents, even occasional marijuana use may cause psychological damage. During intoxication, marijuana users become irrational and often behave erratically.

Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

Myth: Marijuana Causes Crime. Marijuana users commit more property offenses than nonusers. Under the influence of marijuana, people become irrational, aggressive, and violent.

Fact: Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes other than the crime of possessing marijuana. Among marijuana users who do commit crimes, marijuana plays no causal role. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases rather than increases aggression.

Myth: Marijuana Interferes With Male and Female Sex Hormones. In both men and women, marijuana can cause infertility. Marijuana retards sexual development in adolescents. It produces feminine characteristics in males and masculine characteristics in females.

Fact: There is no evidence that marijuana causes infertility in men or women. In animal studies, high doses of THC diminish the production of some sex hormones and can impair reproduction. However, most studies of humans have found that marijuana has no impact of sex hormones. In those studies showing an impact, it is modest, temporary, and of no apparent consequence for reproduction. There is no scientific evidence that marijuana delays adolescent sexual development, has feminizing effect on males, or a masculinizing effect on females.

Myth: Marijuana Use During Pregnancy Damages the Fetus. Prenatal marijuana exposure causes birth defects in babies, and, as they grow older, developmental problems. The health and well being of the next generation is threatened by marijuana use by pregnant women.

Fact: Studies of newborns, infants, and children show no consistent physical, developmental, or cognitive deficits related to prenatal marijuana exposure. Marijuana had no reliable impact on birth size, length of gestation, neurological development, or the occurrence of physical abnormalities. The administration of hundreds of tests to older children has revealed only minor differences between offspring of marijuana users and nonusers, and some are positive rather than negative. Two unconfirmed case-control studies identified prenatal marijuana exposure as one of many factors statistically associated with childhood cancer. Given other available evidence, it is highly unlikely that marijuana causes cancer in children.

Myth: Marijuana Use Impairs the Immune System. Marijuana users are at increased risk of infection, including HIV. AIDS patients are particularly vulnerable to marijuana's immunopathic effects because their immune systems are already suppressed.

Fact: There is no evidence that marijuana users are more susceptible to infections than nonusers. Nor is there evidence that marijuana lowers users' resistance to sexually transmitted diseases. Early studies which showed decreased immune function in cells taken from marijuana users have since been disproved. Animals given extremely large doses of THC and exposed to a virus have higher rates of infection. Such studies have little relevance to humans. Even among people with existing immune disorders, such as AIDS, marijuana use appears to be relatively safe. However, the recent finding of an association between tobacco smoking and lung infection in AIDS patients warrants further research into possible harm from marijuana smoking in immune suppressed persons.

Myth: Marijuana is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco. Marijuana smokers are at a high risk of developing lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema.

Fact: Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs. Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens. But marijuana users typically smoke much less often than tobacco smokers, and over time, inhale much less smoke. As a result, the risk of serious lung damage should be lower in marijuana smokers. There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

(added by ISO: Even better than any manner of smoking, a friend of mine (medical user) uses a device called a "Vaporizer". It removes the active ingredients (medicinally helpful compounds and cannabinoids) from the herb without it ever smoking, hence, NO tar or any other unhealthy substance is ingested. This method is also recommended by over 95% of the doctors that have prescribed medical marijuana for their patients)

Myth: Marijuana's Active Ingredient, THC, Gets Trapped in Body Fat. Because THC is released from fat cells slowly, psychoactive effects may last for days or weeks following use. THC's long persistence in the body damages organs that are high in fat content, the brain in particular.

Fact: Many active drugs enter the body's fat cells. What is different (but not unique) about THC is that it exits fat cells slowly. As a result, traces of marijuana can be found in the body for days or weeks following ingestion. However, within a few hours of smoking marijuana, the amount of THC in the brain falls below the concentration required for detectable psychoactivity. The fat cells in which THC lingers are not harmed by the drug's presence, nor is the brain or other organs. The most important consequence of marijuana's slow excretion is that it can be detected in blood, urine, and tissue long after it is used, and long after its psychoactivity has ended.

Myth: Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents. Like alcohol, marijuana impairs psychomotor function and decreases driving ability. If marijuana use increases, an increase in of traffic fatalities is inevitable.

Fact: There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performances- changes which could impair driving ability. However, in driving studies, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than produced by low moderate doses of alcohol and many legal medications. In contrast to alcohol, which tends to increase risky driving practices, marijuana tends to make subjects more cautious. Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well. For some individuals, marijuana may play a role in bad driving. The overall rate of highway accidents appears not to be significantly affected by marijuana's widespread use in society.

Myth: Marijuana Related Hospital Emergencies Are Increasing, Particularly Among Youth. This is evidence that marijuana is much more harmful than most people previously believed.

Fact: Marijuana does not cause overdose deaths. The number of people in hospital emergency rooms who say they have used marijuana has increased. On this basis, the visit may be recorded as marijuana-related even if marijuana had nothing to do with the medical condition preceding the hospital visit. Many more teenagers use marijuana than use drugs such as heroin and cocaine. As a result, when teenagers visit hospital emergency rooms, they report marijuana much more frequently than they report heroin and cocaine. In the large majority of cases when marijuana is mentioned, other drugs are mentioned as well. In 1994, fewer than 2% of drug related emergency room visits involved the use of marijuana.

Myth: Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past. Adults who used marijuana in the 1960s and 1970s fail to realize that when today's youth use marijuana they are using a much more dangerous drug.

Fact: When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC sample sized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.

Myth: Marijuana Use Can Be Prevented. Drug education and prevention programs reduced marijuana use during the 1980s. Since then, our commitment has slackened, and marijuana use has been rising. By expanding and intensifying current anti-marijuana messages, we can stop youthful experimentation.

Fact: There is no evidence that anti-drug messages diminish young people's interest in drugs. Anti-drug campaigns in the schools and the media may even make drugs more attractive. Marijuana use among youth declined throughout the 1980s, and began increasing in the 1990s. This increase occurred despite young people's exposure to the most massive anti-marijuana campaign in American history. In a number of other countries, drug education programs are based on a "harm reduction" model, which seeks to reduce the drug-related harm among those young people who do experiment with drugs.

***********************************************************************

The above are scientifically confirmed FACTS. If that isn't enough, there are a couple hundred more pages of that kind of data that can be provided.

IGNORANCE and 75 years of lies and propaganda from the government is the only reason this substance is not legal in all 50 states. The US Gov't instilled fear in as much of the US population as possible. It is time for the LIES to end.

ISO

ISO: Don't be bringing in facts. All us right minded people make up our minds based on emotion and we know that marijuana is a killer. Remember all the government films about the killer weed?

You mean this little ditty of LIES from the US Gov't?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK5CXN9Bd5s

Ya gotta watch a minute or two of the fool in the intro past the intro to get to the movie.

Unbelievable.

ISO

Bighog, most cops will say domestic violence situations are the most dangerous. Since domestic violence is normally centered around alcohol abuse then your logic would seem to be that all drinkers should be in prison.

Great thread!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV0BSPzBw50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TQ3pC9W1o4

Enjoy

Most dangerous? i would have to disagree. After 13 years in law enforcement, I've been in two very serious fights that have resulted in my injury and hospitalization of the suspect. Both happened in crack invested neighborhoods by mid level dealers.

The uncertainity of domestic situations can be dangerous. Having to determine who the "suspect" is while the "victim" screams at you can be dangerous. I wouldnt say most dangerous. I would like to look up the stats, but I'm sick of that for today. The last dozen or so officers killed in the line of duty that I can remember had nothing to do with domestic violence calls. Drunk drivers hitting them, ambushes, crack crazed assholes taking their gun in the middle of pac hwy...I could go on, but I'm just getting pissed. Maybe I need to go fishing.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the alcohol comment. I dont think I said anything like that. Maybe I need to work on my communication skills.

i refuse to comment on the first part, because I like my job. That second sentence sounds a bit like a major conspiracy theory to me. Wouldnt the govt have more control if everyone was high?

I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your original intent, as I thought you had grouped anyone who might smoke pot into the same category as meth maggots and the like.

I am not a believer in all that conspiracy crap, for the most part. If anyone does the homework and reads the available data (even that from Lord knows how many Gov't studies) they will see that there is -0- reason the natural herb is not 100% legal for those over the age of 21 (21 is only my opinion, based on life experience and the fact that younger people do not always know where boundaries are in this and lifes other many endeavours).

No, I'm not a believer in those theories, this just was the only conclusion I can draw based on the facts in evidence that marijuana is proven over and over to be far safer a substance than alcohol, and it has no negative interaction with any other ingested substance, and in addition it has no lasting effects beyond those positive and beneficial health effects medical MJ users receive.

I do believe that the Federal Gov't and it's related Dept's (be it state or Federal), once control of marijuana was taken from the people, feel they have no option but to control the substance or look like fools for "the Gov't" making it illegal in the first place.

I'm no damn expert but I belive the reason it became illegal was the Government could not control it or regulate it at the time because it grew everywhere, wild. They eradicated what did exist in nature, and once that was done they had the upper hand. Prior to that time Cannabis was a major ingredient in dozens of the most popular medications of the time that existed and were used by doctors in ever office and hospital in the country.

Is there any other LOGICAL reason why the US Government feels they have a right to regulate by law that which naturaly occurs in our land, and is useful to society in so many ways and forms it takes volumes to get in print (not even mentioning the uses for Hemp and other by-products)?

I believe, from your "job" perspective and from seeing so much scum cross your path in the form of drunk drivers and meth maggots, etc. that it is perhaps sometimes more difficult to understand. My guess is you have met many a daily smoker and never even knew it due to the fact they are just regular old folks like the rest of the good people of America.

All the best to ya, and thanks for keeping us all safe.

ISO

"I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your original intent, as I thought you had grouped anyone who might smoke pot into the same category as meth maggots and the like. "

Yeah..definitely not my intent to group the two together but I can see how it looked that way.

I'm quite sure that I have come across many daily functional smokers. There's no arguing that mild to moderate marijuana smokers can carry out their daily functions without difficulties. I just don't wont to find them behind the wheel and would work a DUI on one just as quick as an alcohol impaired driver.

A few years ago, a guy on the university bridge was high and got his car sideways, striking a post and killing his best friend. THC count was through the roof and no alcohol was on board. His friend's body was nearly torn in half. I have pictures, but I bet the MODS would love that. I'll be good for now!

Not many pot heads are out stealing to fuel a $200 per day habit like a heroin user.
We both know that meth users commit violent crimes at a higher rate than pot users or average folks. After being up for weeks at a time, a person's thinking goes to crap and paranoia takes over. I've met a lot of guys who are pretty level headed when they're clean, but got locked up for a long stint after commiting a violent crime while high on meth.

There are claims that the push to criminalize marijuana came from companies that competed with hemp in the fiber industry. Big companies run our government. Pharmacutical companies, timber companies, and Anheuser-Busch, would lose a lot of money if pot were legalized now.

Typical cop attitude. Has it ever occurred to you that a crack head has a disease called addiction? I don't like crack heads either, but I doubt jail or prison will help them. How about REHAB?

If some of the millions (billions?) spent on enforcement (yes, even for crackheads) and incarceration was used for education and rehabilitation, this wouldn't be such a big problem. You can keep arresting people when they use, but this does not EVER decrease usage. ...Crack only came around after the US led missions into S America to stop the supply of cocaine.

As for "pot-heads" committing "property crimes all day long to fuel their habits"... That's about the most rediculous statement I've ever heard. I'm sorry if your tough job has jaded you into this misconception, but holding onto this irroneous opinion serves to enforce the dichotomy between cops and regular citizens.

If it wasn't for Crack and Heroin, The LEO's and the media would be all over something else like booze, or weed, adultry, videogames, pop music, or gambling or any number of "vices" that the kill-joys want to have punishable by death.

Peaople are people, and people do stupid, evil sh*t ALL the time. If people weren't stupid and sadistic we wouldnt have Armies, Walmart, & Television.

Drugs change nothing. Teatotalers kill people too.

Perhaps some folks didn't get this comment of 1BIG HOG. I can understand that he does see a difference.

Cupo

That is about the most logical statement I've seen here.

Pharmaceutical companies lobby BIG TIME to keep Medical MJ from being accepted at the Federal level. There are so many BILLIONS of dollars that they make off their "designer" drugs, when in some [not all] cases Mother Nature has provided a better medicine.

the other problem with pharmaceutical companies is that the Federal Gov't won't allow many instifutions to raise thei own, but instead force them to buy weed GROWN BY THE GOV'T for study. This greatly inhibits the researcher in that they can not access the strains they wish in order to develop medicines in other forms that WOULD, NO QUESTION, help many thousands of sick folks.

Can you imagine how the costs for medical treatment and INSURANCE would drop if MJ were made Medically legal at the Federal level? (12 states currently have Medical MJ laws in place, however the Federal Gov't seems to be doing all they can to harass the sick folks).

Most of you know me as a pretty damn staunch Conservative...but in light of what has gone on in the last couple years with this issue (Med. MJ) and many others, I would damn near vote for a Democrat over a Rep. this election. I only wish the Dem's would field a suitable candidate!

ISO

This is a very entertaining thread

If they legalized weed I'd probably quit smoking it because it wouldn't be counter-culture anymore. I wonder how many others feel the same way.

Your pants are on fire.

Only in the crotch.

Maybe some sweet little number will put it out for me this weekend. :-)

Sorry, Aunty. I'll shut the hell up.

I think you're right. I do tend to over do it. Like everything in my life. Over-the-top.

I have been. I damn near killed a guy once. He sucker punched me, so I broke his nose and severed a couple of big blood vessles. He lost a couple quarts of blood in a helo transport to Harborview. I got kicked out of school for the rest of the year, was convicted of first degree assalt and went to juvenile detention. That was 20+ years ago and I hadn't hit anyone since until this summer. I'm a swell fellow but if you piss me off enough I'm not pleasant to deal with.

WOOF

REHAB? Typical tree huggin' hippie attitude. Gee... this internet name calling stuff is fun. I would love to invite you on a ride along. I would drop you off at 23rd/Union and allow you to try and rehab all the crack users and dealers you wanted. Just leave your wallet at home because you would be robbed at gun point within 30 minutes. GUARANTEED! How many crack addicts have you talked to or had any contact with? I've had contact with 100's. These people do not want to be rehabilitated! What a joke.

I've never seen such a small part of a post pulled out and misrepresented. I never said all pot heads commit property crime! The ones that do tend to lean towards property crime and not crimes against persons. I was making a comment about Dave's prison stats and trying to make a point about the majority of people being in there for more serious drugs and not marijuana and that's where they belong.

Lastly, I am a "regular citizen." I leave my job 60 miles to north when I go home every day. Most of the people I fish with dont even know what i do for a living.

Why not just shoot em them then, Johnny?

...Since in your judgement they are so worthless?

If rehab doen't work (which it clearly DOES in some cases), then what does Jail do? If you are only protecting "me" from "them", why not just shoot 'em?

I'm not advocating that I should rehab them, that's not my job (BTW, I cut down trees for $$), but that the system doesn't do what YOU want it to. Every day (or not ) you "deal" with these crack-o's, and every day there is more and more of them. You arrest them, they get out, commit crimes, you arrest them, they get out, commit crimes... See a pattern?

If the money I waste paying you to do this was better spent on education and rehab the pattern would not be so prevalent...

I'm not rocket scientist, but hey, if it looks like shiit, smells like shiit, ...it just might BE shiit!

...throwing them in jail obviously works wonders.

I will continue to arrest them nightly until they get locked up a little longer each time. A day, then a month, then a year, maybe two. The longer they are in jail the longer they can't carjack or rob innocent people that got lost on their way to the freeway.

Unless you own a home in Seattle, you don't pay me anything. If you do, I would like a pay raise please. Doing the job that I do with the respect given by people like you, I definitely need more money for this.

Not a rocket scientist? Hey, there's something we agree on.

Well this thread was fun...

Yes I own a home. Not In Seattle. ...Metaphorical "i", metaphorical "you"



There's more like you where I live...

For the record , I have no lack of respect for "you" personally. I think there are better ways to do things than the status quo and am not afraid to be criticized by "you" for it...:)

If you are so smart, go get a job that pays well enough that you don't have to complain about it to me...

1bighog

I would love to go on a night ride with you guys. Is that allowed? How about if I promise to do an article on it . . . in STS?

That would be a very intersesting article....especially if Dave was an undercover hippie

RVW

Irie, you really got some good stuff!

Also is 23/Union really that bad. I don't live in Seattle, But I have a hard time believing there is that much street crime.

JY

Good slide in, tunaklr...where'd you get those cool shades?

Fish on...

Todd

Respect him for what he does. Any member of law enforcement gets my respect because of the amount of risk and responsibility in their job. I appreciate 1bighog.

And I don't think he was complaining directly to you, and its not all about getting a job that pays the best money.

Thanks FH07, I appreciate it. Judging by the PM's, I think everyone else understood what I was saying. I'm done with the Ho'.

Dave-absolutely, no article necessary. No felony convictions right?:) PM me and I'll set it up.

Soon to be published "Fishing for crackheads" by Dave Vedder.

PM Sent. This sounds like a hoot!

Dave, let me know where you guys are gonna be and we'll get something good set up for ya...

Fish on...

Todd

You could invite Parker and he could be the "crack ho".