says the high court of the state. Initiative 747 ruled unconstitutional in a 5-4 ruling. In case you've forgotten, that was the initiative that restricted governments in this state to a 1% increase in annual budgets. Was passed with a 58% approval, but it seems that 5 of the 9 Honorable State Supreme Court Justices (two of which were pro-tem) think you were too stupid to know what you were voting on. (Hell, I've known that for some time, but to have the high court reiterate it.....now that's something.)

Here's the topper......ready?

I heard that the judgement was rendered Monday....that's Monday as in pre-election Monday.....but only released today. You don't suppose that releasing the ruling pre-election could sway some tax-initiative voter's minds, do you?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.

I think many of us are already going Hmmmmmmmmm.......

Watch our state legislators pass into law the same 1% property tax requirement mandated by 747 because they know that if they don't we will have an R beside our next governor's name.

It ain't about the people. It's about the $. Take it when you can get away with it and refuse it when you know your job will disappear.

I hear you SH. The thing that amazes me is the state lets us vote on these initiatives and then the courts rule them as unconstitutional.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but wouldn't it make sense to determine if a initiative is unconstitutional or not before they attempt to place it on the ballot? If it a constituitional initiative, we approve it and it's a done deal. No court BS.
I think this would help solve the ridiculous face slapping we take as voters for things we approve. The courts acts like they are trying to save us from ourselves. What a joke. Nothing more then saying your vote doesn't mean jack $hit.
Brian

"wouldn't it make sense to determine if a initiative is unconstitutional or not before they attempt to place it on the ballot? "

Yes, this should be done but it is up to the drafters and proponents of an intiative to determine this before they present it to the public for signatures. A lot of the intiatives are thrown out because the proponents do not do their homework or are unwilling to pay an attorney to do the reasearch to properly draft the language to begin with.
A lot of intiatives are drafted by layman that do not know the precedents set by case law prior to collecting signatures for to get the intiaative on the ballot.

Generally, until a new law is litigated and an opinion rendered by a court, the effect of the law is somewhat uncertain.
I may be wrong about the above, but this is my understanding about one problem with the intiative process in general.

Yup. The retard voters of this state passed Eyman's Initiative 960. Anyone with half a functional brain can tell that it's going to eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

Some user group is going to get denied by the legislature because tey

I hate the state initiative process. Mostly, it's just a big waste of money and resources.

That's why I vote - to elect officials to do my governing for me. I don't need a bunch of armchair political wannabees out there forcing crap at me and on my ballet.

Parker,
Blindly believing that elected officals will govern with your best interests in mind? How dare you!
Brian

The court tossed out I-747 because (a) voter complained and felt they were misled. Tell me if I'm wrong or not but isn't this the same WA State Supreme court that said political ads can be misleading two weeks ago?!?

I was listening to the radio this morning and Scott Noble the King County property Assessor called in and said that as many as 13 districts as soon as they got wind of it, mostly in King County were asking him how they could immediately raise property taxes and make it retroactive to 2001 right after the ruling came out. He said in Bellevue the city council wanted a 49% increase and they were asking how they could legally do it right away by sending out letters with a balance due the first week of December retroactively back to 01'.

Looks like Rossi has a "give me" for 08'.

What's the lesser of two evils?

Worthless Politicians or state initiatives?

Not going to happen that way, Blue Jay. You raise taxes too hard and too fast and people start revolting.

No one will raise taxes by 49%.

Come on, let's get real on this one.

PS. Talk radio is bad for your brain. Think for yourself.

Go tell Bellevue - I don't live there lol.

Talk radio is free. If I wanted pay to become a mind-numb zombie I'd go pay for another 4 years of tuition AND watch NBC every night while the mortgage company calls to collect the last 5 months worth of payments.

=)

Absolutely! There's no difference between direct democracy and mob-rule. Reactionaries love lynch-mob mentalities becuse they can get 51% of any crowd to follow thier baton everytime. Just need a catchy slogan like "Deutchland Erwache" or "Let's Roll" and you've got an army of slack-jawed knuckle draggers at your control. It's even better if you pass out car-magnets so they can identify each other and feel special.

I swear, America needs mandatory Civics classes to remind them why there are three distinct and seperate branches of government and why there are checks and balances between them with maybe a bit of examples from history thrown in to explain what happens if the balance of power is upset and also where all the money for these nice things like Parks, Freeways, 9-11 memorials, and sewer systems comes from.

Finally all I have to say to people who dont like paying taxes is "Fine. Stay the f*** off my roads and bridges, when your single-wide catches fire put it out yourself"


EDIT--Oh and FYI I paid more in Federal Taxes alone last year than the average American family's annual (gross) household income, so don't start up on me about that.

Let's Roll!

It's true that a lot of initiatives are losers, literally and figuratively. Nonetheless I prefer having the initiative process available to citizens. Some good state laws have come about through citizen initiative. As much as it's the Legislature's job to pass laws for governance, it's pretty much true that the Legislature is responsive mainly to the interests that can afford to lobby and contribute to campaigns. The state initiative process can make up for the statesmanship that is sadly lacking in the Legislature. If that means we have to tolerate Eyman's and other idiotic or just badly written initiatives and let the court system rule on them, I can live with that.

The problem with giving money to the government simply put is mismanagement. People have forgotten how and why this country was formed. They need to go back and read up on the simple lessons like the Boston tea party. Big taxes = Big Government = Big problems. Look what happens when 11 people sit in a room and decide for 7 Million plus and growing that we need to expand mass transit and light rail. Kinda sounds like a bad social program gone wrong. Well you're right, it is. 11 miles, 13 stations and $106 Billion later asking for $107 Billion more from congress, and trying to pull the perverbial sock over the heads of the everyone in the state for an additional soaking of $107 billion more a couple days ago just to complete 10 more stations and 13 more miles of track is ludicrous at best. Just think about what BNSF (Burlington Northern - Santa Fe) could have done with all that money. Hell we'd have train stations at every gas station.

Economics 101. Give the people money and you stir economic growth. Take money from the people and not only will the people eventually lose faith in you, you might just piss them off beyond the boiling point.

My realistic guess with the upcoming political season, a lot of these people holding elected positions will take it easy until the smoke and mirrors show is over next November, then I bet they crank up the old property tax heat.

Paying property taxes after you've paid off your mortgage is especially lame. By the time us youngsters are retired well be paying rent on our paid off properties at the rate were making mortgage payments. I really wish the American people would wake up and get these commies out of office.

Commies?? Hate to break it to you, but The Cold War's been over for nigh-on 20 years. I know it's hard to break the rigorous training of duck-n-cover and "Evil Iron Curtain" that was hammered into your head.

The reason the tax burden has shifted so heavily onto working famililies is because of the Corporate Community's unwillingness to pay any portion of thier Billions in profits. It's gotten to the point where corporations actually demand tribute* from taxpayers through thier governments in the form of "rebates" and "incentives" to remain in a locality. The upshot of which translates to "If you don't fork over the dough, we're pulling stakes and moving to China." sort of ransom note.
F-cksake, do some digging into how much of the WSP budget goes to providing private security and motorcades for CEO's.
Don't blame your high property taxes on social programs, blame them on the outfit that just bought up 500 acres of prime commercial real estate tax-free and whose crack legal team has your local government bent over a barrel and buried in money thanks to 3 decades of "it provides jobs" bullsh-t.
Our current government and tax system system is the direct result of Big Business and to say otherwise is to be obtuse to the point of being declared legally insane.

Yeah The Cold War's over, but with what's been happening the last seven years at home and abroad, it's starting to look like the good guys lost.



* Tribute. Remember that word? Where you pay some high-n-mighty all you got and NOT get flogged in return?

Hate to "re-break" it right back at ya but we all know what a great person Ronald Reagan was to end that war all be it hard for people to swallow the truth. There is a new communist/socialist war within our own country that the American people need to fight.

The facts of the matter is the great machine you might probably just hate called corporate america pays 90+ percent of all the taxes in this country. The real burden is upon them. They go out of their way to provide private money for health of their employees, money to keep the environment clean. Dollars for their local communities. The almighty BS flag had gone up on your state/federally funded motorcades for CEO's. Last time I check the best security in our country came from private dollars. And those companys that elect local protection also pay for it. Nice try though. Like I said, its a smoke and mirrors show from the minority.

IF were not careful and Americans don't wake up to see what's going on next thing you know we'll be wearing red booties standing in line waiting for bread soup during the next recession because we decided to pay closer attention to survivor or American Idol during midterm elections.

If you want a prime example of that look at the do nothing 110th congress lead by two of America's biggest social pundants - Reid and Pelosi. Next thing you know they'll have a 13 year old before the house floor sobbing about global warming to try to push their failed agenda just so the middle class can pay for cars that crush and kill people in minor traffic accidents. - Oh wait they already did that.

It would make perfect sense for a finding on the constitutionality of an initiative prior to it being voted on. Would save a lot of cost, trouble, and controversy. However, there is no law in this state that allows it. What Eyman does (and he has stated this in the past) is attempt to "send a message" to the pols by having these initiatives voted on. Well, that and supplementing his frat boy watch business! I would hate to see the initiative process eliminated in this state. It is true grass roots democracy in action. However, I would like to see a law enacted that if an initiative is found to be unconstituional, the costs of the case would be borne by those that sponsored the initiative. Eyman has put initiatives on the ballot that he knew were clearly unconstituional hell, everyone with a brain knew it. But in his desire to send the message, we go down the road, vote in the initiative, incur the costs of the court case, then provide fodder for the pandering talk show hosts. Possibly having this law in force would compel Eyman (and any other initiative sponsors) to do their homework and bring initiatives to a vote in a proper fashion. I won't hold my breath however.

A repeat of the tea party will never happen, especially around here. The permits and studies required beforehand would make it a waste of time. Then there's the greenie protesters. Plus the tribes would raise a stink because the proposed location would be sacred ground or something.

Eddie,

Sorry. The State Supreme Court cannot rule on the constitutionality of an Initiative. An initiative is an idea, but it's not a law. The Court rules on the constitutionality of laws, not ideas that may become laws. The Constitutional system works, and it works best if left to function as designed. It's not the cheapest or most efficient system - like a benevolent dictator - but it's the best system yet devised.

Sg

Salmo, you are absolutely right. That is why my suggestion is to have the initiative sponsors pay court costs for an initiative that is found to be unconstitutional after it has been passed. My previous post was poorly worded, the Supremes can only rule once it has become law.

Blue Water - there is nothing in the 1st amendment that gives anyone the right to initiative. In fact, I don't think there is anything to do with initiatives and referenda mentioned in the US Constitution. Could be wrong though.....

The way I heard the ruling that this topic has morphed into ....and KK will love this ....is that when campaigning lies are acceptable.....when elected they are not. Sweet, isn't it? No one really expected to be able to discover the truth PRIOR to electing someone did they?

On the original topic.....it's the BUDGET that drives taxes....the initiative restricted the budget growth (not counting people-imposed levies, bonds, and lid lifts....also new constuction) to a one percent increase over the previous year. It doesn't matter worth a crap WHAT your property is valued at, as that figure is multiplied by a levy rate (old term was mil rate) to generate the amount needed to supply the budget. Here's an example: If everyone's property was valued at half of what it is worth, then the levy rate would just double to make the same amount. The key to value-based taxing systems (also called ad valorem) is equity, that is, are houses that are similar to each other valued the same? The problem with ad valorem taxing systems is that there is no allowance for ability to pay.....unless you are old and poor. It's kind of like the government's MO is to tax people into the poor house and then put them on a program.

One of the wasteful things that get my goat is the "spend it or lose it" policy of budget requests by departments. There is no "Here. We didn't need all that money, so put this back in the General Fund."

One more thing that really irks me is that some people (exempted seniors, for example) who don't have to pay for certain taxes, still get to vote on them. (There's a little hint in there for all you "simple majority" types.)

Wrong again KK, IF you've watched the latest news from the IRS you would know just to start out the top 1% pays atleast 39% of the taxes in this country. Those are the people running corporate America - you know private citizens own companys right??? You need to get the data and not bend it.

It's easy to see how the left likes to do that considering how white lies and bending the truth has worked recently. Exampe: Ask Hillary Clinton a question and get 3 different positions.

You also mentioned:



I read the entire dissent and concurence on the WA Supreme Court decision and not one peep about FOX news, el-wrongo again. Another example of people trying to bend and push their own political interests. The idea there was a split decision 5-4. The states highest court didn't want to get involved in controlling political ads.


Getting back on track...

It's pretty sad these days when millions of people can vote and have a voice only to get the laws they voted to inact reveresed by YET another 5-4 decision...how funny. People are sick and tired of taxes, hearing about taxes. Everytime you turn around they want more money for special interests.

Just go to irs.gov and check out the lastest reports.

Once again it doesn't take a genious to figure out the general consensus amongst the general population believes we are already paying too much in taxes.

Would you like to pay more? You claim you own a business don't you? How about a flat tax? Do you feel guilty like Warren? LOL

I for one would like to see us all pay substantially more in taxes. Especially the rich and the not so rich and everyone else. That way our government will be able to disperse it "fairly" amongst everyone. There won't be the incentive for me to work my ass off to succeed with my small business because my wonderfully thoughtful government can just provide for me those things I need (or should I say, those things they think that I need).

After all, it shouldn't matter how hard you work to get ahead. Because someone else is working just as hard to be provided for (by you and me).

Sorry, no facts or statistics in my post. Just an opinion from a guy who lives in Seattle which is in King County which is in the lovely state of Washington. A triple dose of take this tax and like it.

LOLOLOL

Can one of the mods reduce the wicked wok picture attached to BJ's auto signature.

I hope it doesn't get locked yet, it's just starting to get fun.

Trust him, stam. He's got plenty of experience with this stuff.

KK. you sound more like a socialist everyday! You're just mad cuz Foxs news is blowing away your poor little CNN and all the other abc channels out of the water! People are finally realizing the biased media, that is why FOX news ratings have been soaring... It must kill you Libs...... lol

Duc,

I think I love you......LOL

"I did not have sex with that man"

"I am not gay" (not that there is anything wrong with that)

I just like to play hand hockey in the men's room

LOL

" You two get a stall"......KK that was funny lmao

Obviously IF people really believed these commies the dems would be the ones controlling talk radio lol

Rush is awesome, just like Hannity, Levin, Savage, Gambling, Medved, Beck, Sytman & Boze & many more just like them. It's a shame more people don't listen to them. It would be a bummer if someone like Harry Reid wrote a letter to their networks signed by 40 or more prominent leftist members of congress asking them to fire someone like Rush because it's having such little effect on them.

Nah...they wouldn't do that would they?

Freedom of Chums, errrr speech FTW!!!

lol why all the love? I know I'm a minority in King, Pierce & Snohomish County. Well we still don't know for sure, didn't Dino Rossi lose after the third recount called up by Gregoire's Supreme Court cronnies by like 112?

Yeah.
Awesome.

Taking over for Blades this week, are you?

I heard the Democrats rented out the basement of the Honey Bucket. LOL

You only missed out one detail Abu.....Limbaugh should be bent down searching for his lost Oxycontin pills. The Merg one cracks me up Hahaha!!!

Maybe Bob will post that one on the top of the Forum, like he did Tbirds pic of Sol, stam, and Midget Leather Vince.

For some reason I knew that was coming lol
LOL payback coming later...That is a good one though haha

Rush has to be the biggest idiot out there, Republican or Democrat and both parties have whacko’s

How is rush Limbaugh like the Hindenburg ?

They are both Nazi gas bags full of hot air !

Sweet, I'm glad you have an opinion, now where are those Swastikas Rush has got? How is he a Nazi full of hot air? lol

I agree...........most people I know are much closer philosophically than their affiliated party "label" might indicate. I still feel most of us are CommonSensocrats first. Labels divide, and anyone who trusts what ANY politician says is a fool. I served on a State task force for 8 years and lemme tell you, Repub or Dem, they are all just as greedy, just as F'd up, just as willng to take credit for others' work, just as megalomaniacal and just as full of pure bullsh!t on BOTH sides of the aisle.

I like Rush because he points out the stuff the average Joe isn't paying attention to and should be. He's been very effective in doing that. There has been numerous issues that came from congress that he talked about that ended up plugging up phone lines, email and fax machines of many local reps and senators across the country with outraged people. He was a nobel peace prize nominee. How many people you know were? None. Exactly. He's given millions of his own money to our troops which defend everyone in this country, no matter what view they have - even if it's a muslim extremist/ jihadist.

My personal opinion on gun control is answered by Virgina tech. My opinion being- If the some of the students were pack'n, it wouldn't turned out nearly as bad as it did or maybe not at all.

When it comes to jabs from the left, I just roll with the punches, its all good fun and in the end no one wins the argument. It's fun to argue though.

^^ oh that stuff on my chin is from the stall time

=)

How does Rush hate people? lol I think he clearly points out his idealogical differences of his opposition, but I don't think he actually hates people. In fact I think he wants everyone to experience having the American dream, or maximizing their own potential to do just that. IF he really hates people then point out how he hates for me so I can see your point of view.

I once saw Rush hold up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, when she was young and had braces, and joked about how ugly she was. What a fine upstanding character....I mean hypocrite.
Rush is the fat little boy who was picked on so much in school he needs to get revenge on the world.

Do you think she's hawt?

=)

Right sex but not my type. But I didn't say "I like Rush". Do you keep his picture in your wallet?

BTW, your anti gun control comment could be countered with:

If some of the students were pack'n, we would probably have more incidents not less.

Doesn't matter.

Making fun of kids is for tools.

"I sugges you reread blue water pro's post and try to grasp it's meaning" I love it when people talk down to me...Talk dirty to me baby!


-How Clintonesk!

"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream." Rush Limbaugh <----pffft lol, that's an old media matters blogisphere topic. Hey if you want to defend Melissa Mc Ewans looks and think she's hot, go right ahead.


"Sounds like a bigoted and hateful remark to me" Depends on how you decipher it. If you take it personally, then that's your problem. People whom carry intellect realize it's true meaning.

LOL@ YOU! lol

Percocet is awesome!

I agree Stam

Oh, sweet irony.

I like Micheal Moores movies btw, I think they are entertaining. He's not the smartest cookie on the block, but very funny he is. I think that's what he's really trying to achieve. The whole Havanna havng better health care really back fired on him lol.

If you think I'm giving you points, then let me pat you on the back, give you a blankie and a hot cocoa while I'm at it.

But if you think this really hurts, then you don't know me lol. I'd really like to sit down and have a beer with ya sometime and discuss politics. And btw, some moderator's finger hovering over the ban button isn't going to keep me from posting.

Once upon a time, I was a ditto head. Once upon a time I owned both of his books. Once upon a time I bought into his [censored]. His agenda is 100% big business, 100% corporate horsecrap.

As a fisherman, and a hunter I realized that handing over public lands to private owners doesn't serve my interest. I realized that clear cutting forest lands from the tree line to the waterline doesn't serve my interests. I realized that owning a rifle and shotgun does me no good if the land has been leveled for a new strip mall, or a new strip mine, and the deer and grouse are gone. I realized that it's ok to not have cheap electricity if it means I can have salmon in the rivers instead. I realized that the BS Rush spouts about environmental extremists he generalizes to include anybody worried about the land, air, or water. And I realized that the propaganda he vomits forth comes from the same corporate mouthpieces that also told us that cigarettes were safe.

When a ditto head matures to the point where they can honestly say to themselves, "I don't think he's right about that" then their talk radio days are numbered.

Are you paranoid?

What are you talking about?

Who ever said anything about being banned?

Rush is so far right and Moore is so far left, they have almost ran into each other.

I would but I fresh out I neet to get down to costco to pick up more cocoa. I see you're fresh outta coolaid. While I'm down there want me to pick you up some more?

Paranoid? Sounds like you are, who's making a big deal of banning people now? Gosh you guys have got to chill out.

You're onto something here, but not quite far left or right enough though, if you really want, then maybe Daniel Savage can pop outta Rush's right pocket and the man George Soros can pop outta Moore's ass and they can shake hands.

I must have missed something. Who's been banned recently?

And by the way, I have NEVER banned anyone from this board.

Defensive now? wow, now tell me, did anyone say you did that? lol I'm trying to sort this all out. Yeah you did miss something.

Not defensive at all. Just trying to figure out some of your previous comments.

No more, no less.

Just like Imus right? lol days numbered, bwhhahahahahaha

I do agree though, the global warming mythology has people getting killed on our highways today by lowering our vehicle safety standards and lightening up their protective load all to save some money so the honey can go shop at that mall you want to hunt by.

toh! and to think I didn't have to break out the GW card first...wowzers...

Aunty M - you are correct. In 200 some posts Blue Jay has brought something to the table in about 10%. However, I have teenage kids, I understand how I can be wrong more than 100% of the time! LOL.

This outta put him over the top....his idol outed:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1895

Okay I took a couple Hydrocodones last night before bed, I feel great today.

Now where was I? lol

I'm still grasping to figure out why all the Limbaugh haters( Oh wait I'm in liberal headquaters - West Coast - a.k.a WA state).

/sarcasm

He's had problems in the past, but then again who hasn't. Name a person you look up to and in today's society, its only a matter of time before they go down in flames to. Today the man is doing just fine by my standards. I understand your positions which is fine, everyone has their own point of view. I don't agree with every point he has and sometimes quite frankly I get sick of him and Hannity bitch'n about Hillary over and over again. You have to admit though, 25 million people plus a day tune into the guy, that's a lot of people. And I'm sure they don't all agree with him either.

*I'd also like to state I can be wrong too lol, I do have children as well. My prods and pokes here aren't meant to harm. IF they are I will chill out. I'm just having some of what I call "fun with libs".

Now did anyone watch the democratic party debate on the Clinton News Network last night?

I thought it was interesting to about 15 minutes into it when they started to blame the Bush Administration for failures and patting eacho ther on the back. They actually made some headway with trying to get Hillary to stick to one position.

"when they started to blame the Bush Administration for failures "

You mean the Republican candidates?

I think we're better off here when the mods actually chime in a bit and give a bit of themselves up for us to see rather than have them sit back in anonimity. From what I've seen BD seems to lean a bit to that right, I'm probably in more jeopardy of being tossed than.... wait, no.. probably not.... I'm not the one launching random "I'll probably get banned for this" shots over the fence. Seems to me like we got a pretty long leash around here.

Just because we (collective we) disagree doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong. In the best debates people exchange viewpoints and information. In most debates they just prove how closed minded they are.

Honestly you can't believe any of them these days AuntyM. Look at the debackle They've all gotten themselves into. Only a third of our country gives it's approval to our President and our democratically controlled congress has set a record for single digit approval. Not even half the people want to vote. More people vote for American Idol then people in our Presidential elections lol. Most people view politicians as full of crap. All their promises they never follow through with. All the taxes they raise to get re-elected. All the people they try to sway by their say anything attitudes. All the special interest groups they try to appease. It's no wonder people don't care any more. Arguing politics these days is futile. Half the country believes one thing and the other side believes something else. These type conversations go absolutely no where because no wins in the end.

I listen to Rush and Hannity on the net when I work during the day, then I hop in the car and listen to a bit of Glen Beck. Then when I get home I turn on CN-Moron, MSLSD( Scarborough ). You want something real good to listen to, listen to Beck, he takes no sides and has some alarming things to point out our govt. is up to that no one in the media will point out. It's a real eye-opener.

"25 million people plus a day tune into the guy, that's a lot of people"

No that’s a lot of stupid people. Rush is good from a comical standpoint only, anyone series about learning anything about current events should avoid him altogether.

Michael Moore's videos are also only good from a comical stand point; he is also full of crap. I only watched one of his shows, the one that dealt with American violence and why Canada doesn't have these issues.

I have met and talked to several Canadian Police while fishing some of BC Rivers. Guns, such as handguns, are not easy to acquire in Canada like Moore lets you believe. To obtain a handgun one would have to jump through all the hoops a person in the USA would have to jump through to obtain a Class 3 weapons permit. Class 3 allows for the legal ownership of fully automatic weapons among other items.

They all only portrait one side of the issue.

"listen to Beck, he takes no sides and has some alarming things to point out "

BJ: The more you write the dumber you appear.

Glenn Beck was raised a Roman Catholic. He was born in Mt. Vernon, Washington, and attended high school in Bellingham. He graduated from Sehome High School in 1982. His mother committed suicide when he was 13. One of his brothers also committed suicide, and another reportedly had a fatal heart attack. [5] Beck played the cornerback position at Northwestern University.

Beck is a self-described reformed alcoholic and drug addict. In the aftermath of those three family tragedies, Beck said he used "Dr. Jack Daniels" and heavy drugs to cope. He and his first wife divorced amid his struggle with substance abuse. Beck cites the help of Alcoholics Anonymous in his sobriety, and he eventually converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which teaches against the consumption of alcohol.

Beck believes he has a personal relationship with God. "God STALKED me!...He had a giant baptismal RIFLE," Beck said. "I thwarted him. I led people ASTRAY as much I could but he kept putting Mormons in my way." [6]

Beck has two teenage daughters, Hannah and Mary, by his first marriage; Mary has cerebral palsy. He has two children, Raphe (adopted in 2004) and Cheyenne (born 2006), with his second wife, Tania.

Beck often says "I am a conservative who happens to be a Republican" . On his show, Beck addresses many current political, social, and economic issues using traditional conservative governing principles.

While Beck has stated that global warming is real, he is skeptical of the scientific opinion on climate change that global warming is attributable to human activity, that it may pose a threat to human civilization, and that there is an attainable solution. Beck argues there is an under-reporting of scientific findings that do not support the theory of human-created global warming, also known as global climate change.[9]

On 30 April 2007 on his nationally syndicated radio show, Beck made a comparison between global warming supporters and how Hitler promoted hatred against Jews in Nazi Germany:

"Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world. That is the goal. Back in the 1930s, the goal was get rid of all of the Jews and have one global government. You got to have an enemy to fight. And when you have an enemy to fight, then you can unite the entire world behind you, and you seize power. That was Hitler's plan. His enemy: the Jew. Al Gore's enemy, the U.N.'s enemy: global warming. Then you get the scientists -- eugenics. You get the scientists -- global warming. Then you have to discredit the scientists who say, 'That's not right.' And you must silence all dissenting voices. That's what Hitler did."[10]

Yer scarin me Vhawk. I too was a ditto head for many years (80's and early 90's) eventhough I was also ahemphead/fisherman/hunter. I turned my back on them for many of the reasons you layed out.
Nice post.

I believe solar activity causes the earth to warm. It was warmer in 1936 then today temps. In the 70's the same alarmist were running around saying we were going into an ice age. Earth has cycles just like fish runs do. But thanks for telling me everything I already know about Beck.

I'm starting to like your post BJ, purely from an entertainment value. You remind me of another character that used to post on this forum, he went by the name The King.

"It was warmer in 1936 then today temps."

Oh really....and the glaciers were smaller than they are today right?

I've got a new business idea....for sale...bags of Rush Limbaugh sand for idiots to stick their head into.

I'm guessing you might have a shoulder sprain considering how far you had to reach on that one.

Which brings me around to an underlying point, most ditto heads won't question the scientific quasi theories proposed by a college drop out who flunked out of most of his classes, including ball room dancing. They won't question his views on the war anymore than they'd question why a boil on his ass kept him out of Vietnam.

I think what really pisses people off, and it applies to everybody, is when someone like Rush takes the most extreme views and tries to generalize them to include anyone left of center. It's not any different than calling you a Nazi because of your tendencies towards nationalism. Or calling someone a tree hugger because they worry about clear cutting on the OP.

You can choose to not "believe" in global warming, but that won't stop it from screwing us. You can also choose to not believe in gravity, but that won't stop your head from cracking when you slip off your soapbox.

Brilliant observation, Einstein.

I bet nobody else ever thought of that.

yeah really! That is fact, not fiction.

It's about the overall trend. A single year is not as meaningful as 10 years in a row. And that's not as meaningful as the overall recorded trends for the last 150 years, to include glacial retreat, changes in migration timing, movement northward of warm climate flora, etc etc etc.

The sad thing is that the misunderstanding of science among conservatives is so screwy, I'm not sure if your serious, or if your someone's alter ego, i.e another larry craig, pulling our chains.

Why am I reaching on that one? What's a prius? What's a civic Hybrid? Do you really think those tin cans are safe in major accidents, or any small vehicle safer then their larger counterparts? OH REALLY, this is news. I thought only Rumpelstilskin could get to his fantasy world by saying his name 3 times. I'm willing to bet I could sell you some great beach front property in Vegas too!

Hey lets meet up, bring your Toyota Yaris and meet Mr F350 dually lol.

I agree the overall trend is upward for now strictly because of solar activity, but the science is now telling us that land where glaciers sat for centuries have also been exposed before. Is Al Gore a scientist? lol.

Ok guys....After 7 pages, this has changed topics several times.

I am going to close this one but feel free to continue discussions on a new thread.

Just please keep them from decending into name calling.