says the high court of the state. Initiative 747 ruled unconstitutional in a 5-4 ruling. In case you've forgotten, that was the initiative that restricted governments in this state to a 1% increase in annual budgets. Was passed with a 58% approval, but it seems that 5 of the 9 Honorable State Supreme Court Justices (two of which were pro-tem) think you were too stupid to know what you were voting on. (Hell, I've known that for some time, but to have the high court reiterate it.....now that's something.)

Here's the topper......ready?

I heard that the judgement was rendered Monday....that's Monday as in pre-election Monday.....but only released today. You don't suppose that releasing the ruling pre-election could sway some tax-initiative voter's minds, do you?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.

I think many of us are already going Hmmmmmmmmm.......

Watch our state legislators pass into law the same 1% property tax requirement mandated by 747 because they know that if they don't we will have an R beside our next governor's name.

It ain't about the people. It's about the $. Take it when you can get away with it and refuse it when you know your job will disappear.

I hear you SH. The thing that amazes me is the state lets us vote on these initiatives and then the courts rule them as unconstitutional.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but wouldn't it make sense to determine if a initiative is unconstitutional or not before they attempt to place it on the ballot? If it a constituitional initiative, we approve it and it's a done deal. No court BS.
I think this would help solve the ridiculous face slapping we take as voters for things we approve. The courts acts like they are trying to save us from ourselves. What a joke. Nothing more then saying your vote doesn't mean jack $hit.
Brian

"wouldn't it make sense to determine if a initiative is unconstitutional or not before they attempt to place it on the ballot? "

Yes, this should be done but it is up to the drafters and proponents of an intiative to determine this before they present it to the public for signatures. A lot of the intiatives are thrown out because the proponents do not do their homework or are unwilling to pay an attorney to do the reasearch to properly draft the language to begin with.
A lot of intiatives are drafted by layman that do not know the precedents set by case law prior to collecting signatures for to get the intiaative on the ballot.

Generally, until a new law is litigated and an opinion rendered by a court, the effect of the law is somewhat uncertain.
I may be wrong about the above, but this is my understanding about one problem with the intiative process in general.

Yup. The retard voters of this state passed Eyman's Initiative 960. Anyone with half a functional brain can tell that it's going to eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

Some user group is going to get denied by the legislature because tey

I hate the state initiative process. Mostly, it's just a big waste of money and resources.

That's why I vote - to elect officials to do my governing for me. I don't need a bunch of armchair political wannabees out there forcing crap at me and on my ballet.

Parker,
Blindly believing that elected officals will govern with your best interests in mind? How dare you!
Brian

The court tossed out I-747 because (a) voter complained and felt they were misled. Tell me if I'm wrong or not but isn't this the same WA State Supreme court that said political ads can be misleading two weeks ago?!?

I was listening to the radio this morning and Scott Noble the King County property Assessor called in and said that as many as 13 districts as soon as they got wind of it, mostly in King County were asking him how they could immediately raise property taxes and make it retroactive to 2001 right after the ruling came out. He said in Bellevue the city council wanted a 49% increase and they were asking how they could legally do it right away by sending out letters with a balance due the first week of December retroactively back to 01'.

Looks like Rossi has a "give me" for 08'.

What's the lesser of two evils?

Worthless Politicians or state initiatives?

Not going to happen that way, Blue Jay. You raise taxes too hard and too fast and people start revolting.

No one will raise taxes by 49%.

Come on, let's get real on this one.

PS. Talk radio is bad for your brain. Think for yourself.

Go tell Bellevue - I don't live there lol.

Talk radio is free. If I wanted pay to become a mind-numb zombie I'd go pay for another 4 years of tuition AND watch NBC every night while the mortgage company calls to collect the last 5 months worth of payments.

=)

Absolutely! There's no difference between direct democracy and mob-rule. Reactionaries love lynch-mob mentalities becuse they can get 51% of any crowd to follow thier baton everytime. Just need a catchy slogan like "Deutchland Erwache" or "Let's Roll" and you've got an army of slack-jawed knuckle draggers at your control. It's even better if you pass out car-magnets so they can identify each other and feel special.

I swear, America needs mandatory Civics classes to remind them why there are three distinct and seperate branches of government and why there are checks and balances between them with maybe a bit of examples from history thrown in to explain what happens if the balance of power is upset and also where all the money for these nice things like Parks, Freeways, 9-11 memorials, and sewer systems comes from.

Finally all I have to say to people who dont like paying taxes is "Fine. Stay the f*** off my roads and bridges, when your single-wide catches fire put it out yourself"


EDIT--Oh and FYI I paid more in Federal Taxes alone last year than the average American family's annual (gross) household income, so don't start up on me about that.

Let's Roll!

It's true that a lot of initiatives are losers, literally and figuratively. Nonetheless I prefer having the initiative process available to citizens. Some good state laws have come about through citizen initiative. As much as it's the Legislature's job to pass laws for governance, it's pretty much true that the Legislature is responsive mainly to the interests that can afford to lobby and contribute to campaigns. The state initiative process can make up for the statesmanship that is sadly lacking in the Legislature. If that means we have to tolerate Eyman's and other idiotic or just badly written initiatives and let the court system rule on them, I can live with that.

The problem with giving money to the government simply put is mismanagement. People have forgotten how and why this country was formed. They need to go back and read up on the simple lessons like the Boston tea party. Big taxes = Big Government = Big problems. Look what happens when 11 people sit in a room and decide for 7 Million plus and growing that we need to expand mass transit and light rail. Kinda sounds like a bad social program gone wrong. Well you're right, it is. 11 miles, 13 stations and $106 Billion later asking for $107 Billion more from congress, and trying to pull the perverbial sock over the heads of the everyone in the state for an additional soaking of $107 billion more a couple days ago just to complete 10 more stations and 13 more miles of track is ludicrous at best. Just think about what BNSF (Burlington Northern - Santa Fe) could have done with all that money. Hell we'd have train stations at every gas station.

Economics 101. Give the people money and you stir economic growth. Take money from the people and not only will the people eventually lose faith in you, you might just piss them off beyond the boiling point.

My realistic guess with the upcoming political season, a lot of these people holding elected positions will take it easy until the smoke and mirrors show is over next November, then I bet they crank up the old property tax heat.

Paying property taxes after you've paid off your mortgage is especially lame. By the time us youngsters are retired well be paying rent on our paid off properties at the rate were making mortgage payments. I really wish the American people would wake up and get these commies out of office.

Commies?? Hate to break it to you, but The Cold War's been over for nigh-on 20 years. I know it's hard to break the rigorous training of duck-n-cover and "Evil Iron Curtain" that was hammered into your head.

The reason the tax burden has shifted so heavily onto working famililies is because of the Corporate Community's unwillingness to pay any portion of thier Billions in profits. It's gotten to the point where corporations actually demand tribute* from taxpayers through thier governments in the form of "rebates" and "incentives" to remain in a locality. The upshot of which translates to "If you don't fork over the dough, we're pulling stakes and moving to China." sort of ransom note.
F-cksake, do some digging into how much of the WSP budget goes to providing private security and motorcades for CEO's.
Don't blame your high property taxes on social programs, blame them on the outfit that just bought up 500 acres of prime commercial real estate tax-free and whose crack legal team has your local government bent over a barrel and buried in money thanks to 3 decades of "it provides jobs" bullsh-t.
Our current government and tax system system is the direct result of Big Business and to say otherwise is to be obtuse to the point of being declared legally insane.

Yeah The Cold War's over, but with what's been happening the last seven years at home and abroad, it's starting to look like the good guys lost.



* Tribute. Remember that word? Where you pay some high-n-mighty all you got and NOT get flogged in return?

Hate to "re-break" it right back at ya but we all know what a great person Ronald Reagan was to end that war all be it hard for people to swallow the truth. There is a new communist/socialist war within our own country that the American people need to fight.

The facts of the matter is the great machine you might probably just hate called corporate america pays 90+ percent of all the taxes in this country. The real burden is upon them. They go out of their way to provide private money for health of their employees, money to keep the environment clean. Dollars for their local communities. The almighty BS flag had gone up on your state/federally funded motorcades for CEO's. Last time I check the best security in our country came from private dollars. And those companys that elect local protection also pay for it. Nice try though. Like I said, its a smoke and mirrors show from the minority.

IF were not careful and Americans don't wake up to see what's going on next thing you know we'll be wearing red booties standing in line waiting for bread soup during the next recession because we decided to pay closer attention to survivor or American Idol during midterm elections.

If you want a prime example of that look at the do nothing 110th congress lead by two of America's biggest social pundants - Reid and Pelosi. Next thing you know they'll have a 13 year old before the house floor sobbing about global warming to try to push their failed agenda just so the middle class can pay for cars that crush and kill people in minor traffic accidents. - Oh wait they already did that.

It would make perfect sense for a finding on the constitutionality of an initiative prior to it being voted on. Would save a lot of cost, trouble, and controversy. However, there is no law in this state that allows it. What Eyman does (and he has stated this in the past) is attempt to "send a message" to the pols by having these initiatives voted on. Well, that and supplementing his frat boy watch business! I would hate to see the initiative process eliminated in this state. It is true grass roots democracy in action. However, I would like to see a law enacted that if an initiative is found to be unconstituional, the costs of the case would be borne by those that sponsored the initiative. Eyman has put initiatives on the ballot that he knew were clearly unconstituional hell, everyone with a brain knew it. But in his desire to send the message, we go down the road, vote in the initiative, incur the costs of the court case, then provide fodder for the pandering talk show hosts. Possibly having this law in force would compel Eyman (and any other initiative sponsors) to do their homework and bring initiatives to a vote in a proper fashion. I won't hold my breath however.

A repeat of the tea party will never happen, especially around here. The permits and studies required beforehand would make it a waste of time. Then there's the greenie protesters. Plus the tribes would raise a stink because the proposed location would be sacred ground or something.

Eddie,

Sorry. The State Supreme Court cannot rule on the constitutionality of an Initiative. An initiative is an idea, but it's not a law. The Court rules on the constitutionality of laws, not ideas that may become laws. The Constitutional system works, and it works best if left to function as designed. It's not the cheapest or most efficient system - like a benevolent dictator - but it's the best system yet devised.

Sg

Salmo, you are absolutely right. That is why my suggestion is to have the initiative sponsors pay court costs for an initiative that is found to be unconstitutional after it has been passed. My previous post was poorly worded, the Supremes can only rule once it has become law.

Blue Water - there is nothing in the 1st amendment that gives anyone the right to initiative. In fact, I don't think there is anything to do with initiatives and referenda mentioned in the US Constitution. Could be wrong though.....