It's kinda funny how we hate Iran, but are in bed with Pakistan.

Which of the two spread centrifuge and bomb technology all over the ME via the AQ Khan network?

Hint- It wasn't Iran.

The whole situation is mind-boggling. Friends with Saudi Arabia, enemies of Syria. Friends with Pakistan, enemies of Iran. Friends with Iraq, enemies of Iraq. Try making sense of it all.

OR Sudan where you name a teddy bear "Mohammed" and they want to kill you. The irony of the situation is the left pretending their isn't a problem with radical islam.

That was a given. Politicians do share some reality here and there.

BJ,

Where the hell do you get - or make up - the idea that liberals pretend there isn't a problem with radical Islam? Every liberal I know understands that radical religious zealots are a threat, whether they are Muslim, Christian, or anything else. It only makes sense to keep an eye on 'em all, and when they cross the line, send 'em to meet their maker.

Like Salmo, I also think the "liberals" understand the problem with radical Islam. The difference between the sides over here are the tactics in countering it. Many "conservatives" (a really mis-used term these days) see anyone that isn't immediately willing to drop nuclear weapon as "appeasing the terrorists". Liberals tend to see conservatives tactics as fueling radical Islam. The Iraq war is a good example. The support for dictatorships while endlessly talking of democracy is another. The misuse of military power is another. The selective selling of high tech weapons is another. Blindly supporting Israel is another.

We have to stop creating more radicals. Just imagine how Americans would react if foreign troops wandered our country, imposing their form of law. No American would stand for it. Americans would be fighting back however possible - sniping and making homemade explosives.

Luckily, I don't see this as a holy war. I see this as U.S. desire to control oil by having puppet governments and maintaining a strong miliary presence in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia has filled that roll for a long time but that has perhaps reached a breaking point on both sides. That is where Iraq comes into play. Just look at the military bases being contructed and the deal that was just signed by Bush and Maliki this last week. We have no intention of ever leaving.

I'm glad you guys realize that. Sometimes It's hard to tell.

BJ,

If you'd listen to what we say and write instead of making it up in your mind or absorbing it from your right wing whack job radio entertainers, you'd already know it. I have the same values I've always had, but I seem liberal today because so many conservatives and the Republican Party have moved so far over the edge. I'm a fiscal conservative and have always been a social liberal.

Social liberalism is kind of a conservative attribute if you agree with the conservative thought that the government should stay the hell out of people's private business or affairs.

I believe, consistent with the Constitution, that the federal gov't's first responsibility is national defense. Note: that is defense, not offense as in unprovoked invasions of sovereign nations ala Bushco. Somebody attacks the US and the natural, logical, legal, moral, and ethical consequence is to kill 'em. Pretty simple. How's that for liberalism? Defending strategic minerals abroad, like oil for instance, is not Constitutionally defensible. It is, however, defensible for reasons of lifestyle maintenance or greed or avarice or any number of lower human attributes. I don't care; just call a spade a shovel, and stop the sugar-coating; it's intellectually insulting.

I believe that reducing Constitutional protections of citizens is treasonous. Ergo, Buscho and every Congressman and Congresswoman who voted for it is a traitor of the US. I try to keep these things as simple as possible so that even conservatives may understand them.

When conservatives support gov't intervention in people's private lives and reductions in Constitutional protections, I can only conclude that they are stupid beyond belief or are agents of the Devil.

Sg

All a lib in my mind is someone who believes in civil rights and liberties free from tradition, far from religion, one that believes in science that also believes in a system of govt. that controls via modification of social, political & economic situations.

I wouldn't consider myself a hard core conservative right wing nut job you might think I am. I don't get a Limbaugh letter. I don't go to Sean's Freedom concerts. I don't listen to them all the time. I do however enjoy listening to their entertainment as much as I like to watch Scarborough, Blitzer and Couric. I believe in civil rights & liberties. I think pot should be legal. I am against taxes although I pay them faithfully. I believe there is a God. I also believe God has his hands in science from the beginning. However I am not a church goer. I don't believe in "Global Warming", instead I believe in Climate Change. Sounds as If I'm left of center really. I also believe one has the right to bare arms.

When it comes to the president's position, I believe he has the right to defend our country and protect it's interests since we voted for him to do that. That is his #1 responsibility. I also believe in respecting that position no matter what decision he makes whether I am for it or not. We all make bad decisions now and then. If someone else gets elected Pres. that I don't care for, I will still share that same respect for them. Bush wasn't the first president that made bad choices in the minds of many.

Govt. intervention in peoples private lives in the form of taxes is a fact of life. Another fact of life is if you think Bush is having your phone line tapped then you are a nut job. That's crazy business.

amen

BWP,

Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion, but it includes freedom from religion if one so wishes. Freedom of religion means nothing unless it also includes freedom from religion. As Aunty M says, it's the only way to be inclusive of all, and not just some or most, people.

Just like the right of freedom of speech means that the speech you hate is also protected. Otherwise it is a meaningless right.

BJ,

It's nice to hear you say you don't think you're a right wing nut job, but unfortunately many of your posts read like they were written by one, your connecting Saddam with 9/11 in particular.

Sg

AuntyM,
I think that a lot of what happened back then can be contributed to uneducated folks doing what they thought best to even more uneducated people. I hate it when people try to hold people accountable by todays standards for things done a long time ago. While it wasn't right, or even close to right, it does have to be looked at in the perspective of the times. I can't and wouldn't even try to justify what happened back then, it seems unfair of the tribes to look at the US government and point out how unfair they were, without considering what happened to their own enemies when they defeated them.

Blue water,
First let me state that the above statement is in no way meant to take away from the validity of how you feel.
Let me state that coming from an ultraconservative background, I can't understand how Christians can read the bible, look at the Book of Revelations in the Bible and what is stated; and then try to insert religion into government. The way I see it, the main point of Revelations is that the government gives itself over to a world wide religion and attacks those who refuse to worship the beast and his number. Freedom from religion and Freedom of Religion are in reality, the same thing. I can teach my kids what I believe and you should be free to teach yours how you feel. If I want, I can allow someone else to do it, by I most certianly don't what anyone I don't trust to.

I know lots about Ntive americans. I learned everything I know from watching Little Big Man.




Beep LOL!!!!

Historically speaking, $hit happens.

hey bwp
next time yor near a doc? you may want to get a checkup
because i think your clutch is slipping

Geez. Thanks BWP, for telling me what it's like to be a Native. Without you I don't know what the f*ck I'd do with myself.

I suggest now you should head down to Los Angeles to the Watts district to tell Blacks what it's really like to be second class citizens, and if you manage to survive, head to East L.A. and educate the Mexicans on what it's like to be Mexican. It can be your own lil crusade. I'll be the guy selling popcorn on the sidelines of your demise.

LO.....L??????

bwp, speed kills.

speed kills is a factual statement, look up some of the tweaker threads.

[quote=AuntyM]I'm not understanding you BWP. What religion has lost something due to suppression in the US? Government should not be endorsing one faith over another, but they should also not try to "suppress" any religion, as long as it complies with our laws.
[quote]

Remember in Devil's Advocate when that dude killed the goat and they got him off on the "freedom of religion " card. I love Al Pacino!!!

"No thinking person, no person with a brain cares about prejudice. Sorry harsh -but true. When your prejudice you just tell how low class you were brought up & how dumb you are."



Is that all you've brought to this board BWP? Insults?

Now looking at the statement above, Should I consult one of the thousands of academic essays written on Socio-ethnic prejudices and their significance in everyday social interaction to prove you not only an uninformed liar and a blowhard but, guessing by your grammar, a semi-literate sociopath who lashes out through the safety of a computer?

This thread was originally about protesters. That is until YOU brought first religion and then five posts later race into it. No one here said a damn thing about race or religion until you threw on your pointy little hat, climbed up on you soapbox and started ranting about your creationist and racial horsesh*t. You must be a real piece of work in real life.

So far you haven't contributed anything but hate & anger to this board.