Gregoire plans to pay tribes for water
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

OLYMPIA -- The state should pay a pair of Native American tribes about $5.9 million a year to cooperate with plans for giving more Columbia River water to farmers and cities below Grand Coulee Dam, Gov. Chris Gregoire said Monday.

With the cash, Gregoire hopes to buy a partial solution to the tug of war over scarce water supplies that has roiled the Columbia Basin for decades.

The deals announced Monday secure cooperation from the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, and set up a tentative agreement with the Spokane Tribe of Indians. The Legislature has the final say in both cases.

The agreements would allow the state to draw extra water from Lake Roosevelt to satisfy farmers and local governments downstream, and help protect fish habitat. At most, the state would pull about 43 billion gallons of water from the reservoir in drought years -- enough to lower the level of the lake behind Grand Coulee Dam by about 1.5 feet. Gregoire's administration expects to begin drawing extra water from the reservoir in the spring.

The Colville Tribes would get an initial payment of $3.8 million, and $3.6 million annually in the second year and beyond. The Spokane Tribe would get $2.25 million yearly. The payments would continue indefinitely.

So the Indians will still not pay taxes and will get our hard earned money (Taxes) for free just for being an Indian!
Got to love this Liberal, sell out State!

Another "farmer vs. fish" type of thing..........kinda like the ferry system in this State........05% of the people ride the ferries regulaly but 100% are going to see increases in taxes because of lack of keeping what we had in "runable shape".

Fixed income people gota love everytime "a new plan" comes along!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It is not just the Farmer who will benifit from this water deal , a big percentage of this water is used to keep lawns green, flush toilets etc..............

Here's a thought...locate farms where there is water.

It is not the water that pisses people off. It is paying for something that is no more theirs than it is ours. I grew up in Colville and have many close friends in the Colville tribe. They are a proud great people and I have nothing but respect for them but they get a % of profits off the dam every year now. When we were in high school they would get checks for thousands. My friends use to laugh about just how stupid we are.
Now we are going to pay for H2o as well. Why dont we just pay Canada for it too. It runs through their land before ours. Where is this going to stop? Sooner or later, the liberals in Seattle need to stop making these fine decisions for the rest of the state when they know nothing about it. Water is water and if we need more from behind the Dam then we should use it and no specific group should have anymore right to it than any other.

It took the queen a couple of years but she has perhaps realized that she had better start writing checks while she still has the checkbook.

I'm talking about places like the once very fertile kent valley which was all farm land.

I have no clue what kind of deal was worked out with the tribes when the dams went up. Maybe the $$ are compensation for lost fish or lost land? But $5.9 mil is probably less than we'd spend defending, and losing, a lawsuit.

All my contracts state that I am not allowed to use sludge from waste treatment plants ! If the public knew what foreign countries spray on their
crops you would only eat food grown in the USA

So, I've been eating poop?

No, YOU'VE been eating shi%. The only thing left for you to do now is DIE.

In terms you might understand:

Uhh Sorry bub, but none of your "hard earned" tax dollars go to Injuns just because they are Injuns. If an Injun gets any money from the gubmit it's through the same channels that everyone else is capable of getting money under: SSA, Welfare, FHA, HUD, etc.
And if you've ever had to be on SSA or Welfare, you wouldn't bitch like a little girl about people living like kings on the gubmit teat because you'd know what it's like. And last time I checked, there were an assload more White people collecting gov't benefits and dodging taxes than the entire population of natives put together, both employed and unemployed, so put that in your peacepipe & smoke it.


But if there's something I'm missing where I can get free Firewater, Blankets and Yellowhair wimmin from The Great White Father let me know cause I've never seen any.

The Colville Tribes would get an initial payment of $3.8 million, and $3.6 million annually in the second year and beyond. The Spokane Tribe would get $2.25 million yearly. The payments would continue indefinitely.



that's INSANE!

Bad day?

I'm sorry, my bad, it's simple math:

12000 tribal members in Spokane and Colville tribes.
$6,000,000.oo only
$500 per member/per year
not much more than a bag of beads.


$6,000,000 for
43,000,000,000 gals water
Only $7166 per gallon
priceless

My guess is that since the tribe owns to the middle of the river, they were given compensation when their land was flooded. In that way, they own half the lake and I would guess half the water. But, do they own half the dam? Since is was stated that they get proceedes from the operation of the dam, then any water removed from the dam would result in less electricity and perhaps less recreational income. That would make sense since all other releases would have to do with normal dam operation, but this would be a specific removal of potential income. The amount seems fairly high, since if this is just lost income I really wonder what they make otherwise. Still, before anyone gets too mad, they probably should look at the original agreements.

Marsha, the problem is this would probably leave less water in the river, which would mean less to spill, a detriment to the salmon. They say it is to help fish habitat, but that would make no sense to pay the tribe for water to do this, since any drawdowns would be essential to normal operations.

The next problem will be when all the tribes downriver decide that it reduces fish runs and decide to sue. Then perhaps other farmers who claim it makes them harder to get water rights down river. If this is to help specific users, it should be them who pay for it. It may be that the state is taking the lead in this and then will require the cities and farmers to pay back their share.

Whats the problem? It's the all American "free market system", privatize the profits, socialize the costs.

Annie,
I have no idea where the claim it will benefit fish comes from. All I have is the info from the article and it only meantions the removal of water for cities, and farmers and additional fish habitat. The only way that I could see removing water from the dam would benefit fish would be to increase spill. But since the benefit for the fish would be a normal requirement or dam operation I fail to see the need to pay the tribe for this. In fact, y opinion is that unless they were specifically removed from any liability, their receiving funds from dam operations could leave them open for suits from down river users, not open them up to more money due to down river users demands. Perhaps they are going to spill water from here to fill the lower reseviors so they can run them higher during peak periods and still have water left over for higher required spills during downriver migration (is that what you meant?) Lots of wild guesses that could probably be solved if we just had all the info. In the end, I am just taking wild guess and probably should just stick to what I know.

I'll bet you that the entire water withdrawals that are proposed to be purchased will be in the form of spilling more water over GC and CJ dams...said water ending up in the reservoirs where most of the irrigation withdrawals take place, benefitting fish along the way.

Fish on...

Todd

Your math is off a bit

$6 mil / 43 bil is 1.395 a gallon....or 1.395348837209302325581...I'll stop there.

Maybe it's compensation for lost income in the lucrative tribal bottled water industry?

hmmm my math says it's about $0.000139534 per gallon if it's actually 43 bil gals
we must of went to differents schools i suppose

LOL....those pesky digits....you should see what it is when I first left my calc in hex mode. My calc doesn't go that high without the e-4. Cheap water.

Don't mind me. I haven't fished in 5 weeks. All work and no play makes me...well...insane.

I dunno?

I think that blaming the whole thing on liberals is still the best answer. It's much easier for good ol' fashioned, down home, red-blooded 'mericans to understand that way too...

4-Salt is right that it's so much easier to just blame it on liberals and avoid having to understand the issues.

With a plan like this going to the press, I'm dumbstruck that the Governor's office didn't include the rationale of why it makes sense for WA to pay public monies to two Indian tribes for water, that, if they'd thought about it, the majority of the public isn't going to have any intuitive sense about why these tribes own this water, if indeed they do. I track a lot of issues like this one, but I'm as puzzled as anyone. I think the gov screwed up and is making it easy for the critics. Provide some background and rationale. The public with half a brain or more will figure out if it's justified or not. The article as written just seems to make the Governor's office an easy target for criticism. Maybe this is a dumb ass idea, and maybe it isn't. Can anyone really figure it out with the info they provided?

Sg

Here's the detailed version:

http://www.governor.wa.gov/news/news-view.asp?pressRelease=726&newsType=1

A liberal plot to buy millions of gallons of water for almost nothing to give to a bunch of redneck Republican farmers and provide for fish habitat...that is exactly the type of logic I expect from the firebreathing, but not necessarily reality-based, RWWJ's* around here.

Thanks for the entertainment, dumbasses.

Fish on...

Todd

*For those who need help with the acronym, "RWWJ" means "Right Wing Whack Job"

Thanks for the link Stlhead. The press release says the money if for impacts to the Tribes. It seems like the impact to the Tribes is by the federal Grand Coulee and Chief Joseph reservoirs flooding tribal lands. Does it follow that since tribal lands are flooded, the water then belongs to the tribes? That could well be under water law; I don't know. So the state is buying the water that the tribes own via adverse possession? It seems like the deal might make sense, but the people who want the water, cities and irrigators, ought to be the ones buying and paying for it. But since an election year is coming up, and eastern WA votes Republican, Gregoire might buy a few votes by having all the state's taxpayers, most of whom live in western WA, buy the water for eastern WA cities and irrigators. But since they vote Republican, they aren't gonna' vote for her anyway. My brief analysis concludes it's a waste of my tax dollars.

Sg

Here's some more...the plot and the conspiracy thicken...there will be greater access to Rufus Woods for sportfishermen as part of the agreement, too.

Damn liberals.

Of course, WDFW will have to build the fishing accesses, and that will cost money...hence the furthering of the conspiracy.

Fish on...

Todd

**********************************************************************

New state-tribal agreement could
boost Rufus Woods Lake fishing

OLYMPIA – Anglers could gain additional fishing access to Rufus Woods Lake on the Colville Confederated Tribes (CCT) reservation under a pilot project agreement signed today by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and tribal officials.

If legislative funding for the project is approved, the agreement would allow non-tribal anglers to fish with either a Washington state fishing license or a Colville tribal fishing permit while they are fishing from a boat or from one of three proposed fishing access areas on the reservation. Under the agreement, non-tribal anglers fishing in non-designated, undeveloped areas within the reservation must carry a tribal fishing permit. All non-tribal anglers fishing with a Colville tribal fishing permit also must carry a Colville transport permit if catch is going to be taken off the reservation.

Rufus Woods Lake is a 51-mile-long, 7,800-acre reservoir on the upper Columbia River, created by Chief Joseph Dam. It forms the boundary between Douglas and Okanogan counties in North Central Washington, and the southern boundary of the Colville Indian Reservation. Open year-round, Rufus Woods Lake provides fishing for walleye, kokanee, and triploid rainbow trout. The state’s last three record rainbows were caught in the lake.

“Rufus Woods has become a high-quality fishery, and angler interest in the lake has increased substantially over the last seven years,” said WDFW North Central Regional Director Dennis Beich. “But access to the lake is primarily limited to two public boat ramps at either end. If funding is provided by the Legislature, up to three designated fishing access areas will be developed along the center of the lake’s north shore on the Colville Indian Reservation.”

The boundary of the Colville reservation is the center of the Columbia River bed, however determining and enforcing the actual boundary is difficult because the river has been inundated by dams, said Joe Peone, director of the CCT Fish and Wildlife Department. Through various agreements over the past 15 years, non-tribal anglers have been required to hold both a Colville tribal fishing permit and a Washington state fishing license when fishing Rufus Woods and Lake Roosevelt.

“This agreement is the product of a lot of hard work by both the Colville Tribes and WDFW to better serve the public who have come to regard Lake Rufus Woods as one of the premier fishing locations in the state,” said Peone. “The Colville Tribes have put a great deal of effort into developing and managing this fishery, and we are pleased to have worked out a good agreement with the state. We believe it is something that the Legislature can support as a genuine public benefit.”

WDFW Director Jeff Koenings applauded the cooperative effort.
“We greatly appreciate the Colville Tribes working with us to both simplify fishing license requirements and improve access to the lake,” Koenings said. “Increased access is important to future fishing and hunting opportunities throughout Washington state. This agreement is a good example of how we can work together to increase recreational opportunities for our citizens.”

WDFW will request $423,000 from the Legislature to fund the first year of the project, and will submit additional requests over the next four years.
Pending legislative funding, new fishing access areas will be developed over the next five years. Limited access could be available as early as 2008, with additional capital funding in future years for complete development of shoreline docks, boat ramps, restrooms and camping facilities.
The agreement also provides for increased WDFW and CCT enforcement and fish management staff in the area, including portions of the upper Columbia River’s Wells Pool and the Okanogan River, and provides additional fish stocking for Rufus Woods Lake.

The agreement is the result of several years of negotiation, and has recently gained impetus from the Governor’s Columbia River Water Management Program (CRWMP), which is developing additional Columbia River water supplies for irrigation and other purposes, including fishery needs. The agreement will be in effect and monitored for five years. If goals are being reached and both parties agree, it will be automatically renewed for an additional five years.

That logic doesn't follow....even for a sheister.

I doubt the "redneck republican farmer" cares what he does on the back of the "homo democrat idealist".

so if the tribes own the water , who owns the clouds?

As I said way back this is fricken INSANE!

So heres an idea....LATER



JAKE

Just so you know we pay for any water we use, By the way this redneck farmer is a democrat

Just wait one day they will come for those bulbs and berries in the tidelands of Mount Vernon

RvW, I'm not surprised that I actually have to explain this, but when I was pointing out the "logic" of the conspiracy, I was being fascetious...there is no conspiracy like the one that the RWWJ's were clamoring about at the beginning of this thread.

It's called "sarcasm"...

sod, you're not the farmer who's going to benefit from this, it's the dirt farmers in E. Washington...and a Democrat among them is about as rare as a Republican dittohead with an original thought.

bwp, good post...but the truth in it will be lost on the folks who would rather rate politicians based on the letter after their names (D- or R-) than by anything they actually do or do not do.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd---My apologies. I should have abided by my rule to not post when tired and a couple beers on board. After re-reading it I see the sarcasm. Sometimes I tend to be too literal. I'm worrkin' on it.lol....beep

That is a good point Todd.
Everything the Eastern Washington Rednecks can thank for their livelihoods and existence is due to some Commie Liberal's social project or another. Those (to coin a Vinceism) irrigant yokels over there blame all the country's woes on Roosevelt's New Deal and "Tax and Spend Liberals from Seattle" yet without the dams, the bridges, roads, and the highways that West sider's and federal taxes payed for, those morons would be living as sharecroppers in the biblebelt somewhere blaming their failing okra crops on someone else's laziness and the Gubmit.



RVW--I too have been laying off the likkered up postings. Thats why I've been a bit scarce.

...they're also the ones who get more welfare than any ten liberals combined, yet still whine about "the welfare state"...just like all the liberal conspiracy projects that built all of Eastern Washington for them to live there, they also get the benefit of absolutely massive billion dollar price controls and agriculture subsidies...complaining about them all the way to the bank.

Nothing like a little hypocrisy to get the ol' right wing blood boiling...their own hypocrisy, that is.

Fish on...

Todd

RvW,

Beep...LOL!!

Fish on...

Todd

The ironic part is it's usually the dems pushing the farm subsidies. That's why the midwest usually votes dem. The easterners in our state aren't too bright as a voting block.

Yup I agree! Darn those dem farmers!

stlhead, that was my point...the redneck farmers in E. WA get water, courtesy of the Democrats...they get dams that make it possible to live in the friggin' desert, courtesy of the Democrats...they get all the benefts of the New Deal, which built all the roads and infrastructure that they use for their business and life...they get farm subsidies that make their losing businesses able to operate...and now they may get more water, more electricity, and more fish (which allows them to kill more in their business), courtesy of the Democrats...

What will their very predictable response be? Same as the RWWJ's here...pissing and moaning about it.

Why? I don't know...the only answer that makes sense is because they are either so ignorant of where they get all their handouts, or don't recognize all the handouts they get.

They don't pay chit for taxes, yet they get all that stuff from the Government...and who pays the taxes that gives them all the free stuff?

That's right...Seattle area liberals.

I think there's another answer that makes sense...they're just kinda dumb.

Fish on...

Todd

I bet that guy in E. WA that owns all that wheat he sells to various brewing company's is REALLY stupid making millions of dollars every year. I also bet all those people in King, Pierce and Sno counties think all that hydro-electric power they use is flat dumb too! Hate to see coal fired plants cropping up here and there, or more nuke plants.

But those aren't the people we're talking about BJ...we're talking about the ones who are dumbasses, the died in the wool RWWJ's, guys who think just like you, guys who are getting all the benefits of the Democratic programs, yet whine incessantly about the cost of it, when they aren't even the ones paying for it...

We're the ones paying for it, and they're the ones getting it...and they still have enough idiotic partisan jackass gall to complain about it.

Those are the ones we're talking about.

Fish on...

Todd

You should quit posting while doing your Keegles it's making you cranky

Kind of like all those Boeing Employees that vote dem because they are union not realizing nearly 80% of their income comes from Military. In a way they are shooting themselves in the foot. Vote for a dems, war come to an end, base closures happen, units decomission, need for military equipment goes down, layoff's happen...then who's bitching now?!? LOL. It's weird because one would think with all those commercial contracts coming in they'd get most of their income there, but that's not the case. An F22 cost a Billion a copy and you can build a lot of 737's for the same price.

Those idiot farmers don't have to grow the green beans, peas, carrots, apples, etc, etc you eat every day either. They could go the enviromentally easy route/politically correct highway and grow corn for fuel and get that subsidized too. Then what? Eat corn all the time? You could start a tostada factory Todd. What do you want them to do? Who need's wheat anyway when you can use pita made from corn maze to make your lunch samiches. Ah hell lets just let the farms dry up and become dry wasteland where steelhead can spawn in peace under a shadey tumbleweed.

Let's raise some more taxes so we can pay for tunnels and trains everyone wants to ride in to save a polar bear.

First a F22 starts at 361 million, and a bulk discount is given when buying in quantity. A 737 goes for 49.5 to 85 million. A 777 goes for 187-253 million depending on the options. This is based from Wilkipedia and those numbers are correct.

Boeing Employees are not voting dem because they are union. The union has nothing to do with an individuals voting pattern.

Basically BJ your entire post is BS

"Boeing Employees that vote dem because they are union not realizing nearly 80% of their income comes from Military."

A helpful hint to ya...look it up before you spew forth drivel.
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/fin...ing_06AR_17.pdf

Not to mention Dems have always been pro-union and Reps anti.

"Vote for a dems, war come to an end, base closures happen, "

Wrong again. 2005 the pentagon proposed closing 33 bases. Remember which party was in charge?

We've already discussed your parties push for Corn Ethanol while soy beans make the most sense.

Wow, that entire post was void of a single fact. You are one of the idiots Todd was mentioning.

bj - If you had to make a choice between a base closing and 4000 U.S. soldiers dying needlessly... which would you choose?

Do you really need to ask that moron?

Rory and the King are gone

BJ is our only form of entertainment left, please feed the monkey.

I was just wondering if he would actually give us his honest opinion... instead of Ann Coulter's.

I bet Ann Coulter reeks like chum too.

she's the one that puts the smell in the fish she swims with.

Aunty,

I'd love to say that I made a very rare spelling error...but I didn't. I'm not sure what I was getting at, but I put "died" in there on purpose...actually, I did it on accident, but left it on purpose because it struck me as funny...weird, but funny.

Thanks for noticing, even if neither of us is sure exactly what it was you noticed.

BJ, awesome lack of logic or facts in your last few posts...if you weren't already a Republican, I'd recommend it for you...they need some more good foot soldiers like you...or is that "foot in mouth" soldiers.

Feeding the troll is like paying your cable bill...it's all about the entertainment value. Since I don't have cable, this is it for me...hence the constant paying of said troll.

Too fun...but too easy.

Oh, while we're at it...ah, screw it, I'll make another post.

Fish on...

Todd

Here's the "other post"...more about the liberal plot to give water to rednecks and fish:

From this month's NWFishLetter

http://www.newsdata.com/fishletter/240/6story.html

[6] Washington Pens New Water Agreement With Tribes

Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire announced this week that two Upper Columbia tribes have agreed to release water from Lake Roosevelt to help farmers who have had to rely on the Odessa aquifer for their pumping needs to irrigate 10,000 acres of cropland.

"Today's historic agreement ensures a water supply that sustains farming, supports growing communities and enhances our precious salmon resource," said Gov. Gregoire. "I appreciate and applaud the leadership of farmers, environmental groups, county commissioners, legislators, federal officials and tribal governments in creating a lasting water-supply partnership."

The legislature must approve the agreement that calls for annual payments to the Spokane Tribe of $2.25 million, and $3.8 million to the Colvilles next year and $3.6 million annually after that. Part of the money will go to offset any impacts from the extra foot or so of expected drawdown.

"The Colville Tribes is very gratified that the governor has worked with us as a co-equal sovereign to come to an agreement that protects our important interests in the Columbia River and Lake Roosevelt," said tribal chair Richard Marchand.

"Grand Coulee Dam inundates our boundary rivers and uplands within the Spokane Indian Reservation," said Spokane Tribal Chairman Richard Sherwood. "Our conceptual agreement will provide major benefits downstream while helping the tribe to address some of the impacts from storage and use of that water on our lands."

The agreement will also supplement irrigation needs of some junior water rights holders in drought years by 33,000 acre-feet, and supply more water for municipalities and industry needs.

It will also make 27,500 acre-feet available for salmon flows every year and an extra 17,000 acre-feet to help fish in critical drought years.

The agreement also calls for the legislature to provide $2 million to local governments around Lake Roosevelt to address priority water issues. -B. R.

The farmers are not getting that water for free on 10,000 acre feet that is roughly going to cost those farmers 1,000,000.00 dollars Every farmer on the east side has to buy their water rights then tack on pumping and equipment you are looking at 500.00 to 700.00 a acre. What you need to look at is do you want produce from some country that still gets to use chemicals that have been outlawed here for 30 or 40 years or do you want to eat safe produce

sod,

It's not just about what water costs, but also about what water is available...the more water that is available, the less it costs, the more that can be grown with it...and the less we have to rely on pesticide/herbicide/gentic mutant laced fruit and vegetables from Vietnam.

Fish on...

Todd

It does help to know, or look up your facts, if you want to effectively argue.

First, the vast majority of Washington's wheat is DRYLAND farmed. That means there is no irrigation involved- so citing wheat growers as some kind of big beneficiaries of irrigation projects is not too smart.

Second, the vast majority of WA wheat is exported, for the production of baked goods and Asian noodles. Maybe you drink the majority of your wheat products, but that's not true for most of the world.

Last, the idea that wheat farmers, or any farmers, always make millions (in net), is insane. I live on the edge of wheat country, and depending on what radio station I listen to, I'll hear the morning grain report (prices @PDX) I also hear how cyclical prices are. ATTM, prices are pretty good- the dollar is relatively weak, and since wheat farmers are export dependent, this helps them. Production of other grain growing regions also effects prices, as does weather conditions (which also effect production). The net result, as I recall, is that wheat farmers might make money in 3 out of 5 years- the other 2 they lose money.

Oh, BTW, grain farmers are also helped by "liberal" subsidy programs that help them export excess production. Growers in other countries tend to refer to that practice as "dumping". It's always amazing how many fiscal "conservatives" also support those kinds of programs, even though they are far from being freemarket solutions.

http://www.bluefish.org/wheatfax.htm

The F22 program and the actual numbers are a lot higher then your low ball number, it's closer to a Billion. Your 737 number is realistic. And for the other poster who is using Boeing's disclosed numbers I'm LOL right now @ you. I know it's their website but you're kidding right? LOL.

I am curious though and have always wondered what the percentage of union that votes dem. Seems like they'd vote dem because of the union thing, but you never know.

BJ

You can't dispute this with me, I am the man, I am the all knowing GOD of the numbers!!!

I know exactly how much it *ALL* costs right down to the last bolt.

I am not going to say anything more then what I posted on the numbers from Wilkipedia as it is a convoluted mess what can and cannot be disclosed.

"The F22 program and the actual numbers are a lot higher then your low ball number, it's closer to a Billion. Your 737 number is realistic. And for the other poster who is using Boeing's disclosed numbers I'm LOL right now @ you. I know it's their website but you're kidding right? LOL. "

Well BJ, if you are claiming Boeing is cooking the books then I suggest you call the SEC or better yet buy a share of stock, if you can afford it, and file a shareholder lawsuit. But that would require proof and facts which isn't your forte.

I sure hope to god that BJ doesn't work on planes. What a scary thought.

Wiki'd

People have died for our country for a long time. It's the ones that don't appreciate it who are the ones that are doing this country wrong.

When are you going to die for our country?

You honestly believe Boeing is going to disclose to the general public how much they get from uncle sam for a F22 then Dianne Feinstein would have been in jail a LONG time ago for her ordeals. Nobody ever cooks the books right? LOL. BTW nice try at attempting to belittle me with the "if you can afford it" comment. LOL.

IF a republican told your type the sky was blue you'd think they were crazy.

I served my country. Now go smoke a bowl hippy so others can die for ya.

Nice dodge... but it doesn't answer my question.

Following your logic: Vote dem = war ends = bases close etc.

So I ask again... If YOU had to choose between a base closing and 4000 soldiers dying... what would you choose?

Believe it or not... I'm genuinely curious. To me, the neo-conservative world view is actually quite fascinating from a psychological study standpoint.

Let we answer it like Hillary then so you can understand it.

We certainly we can all agree that troops or any military personel dying for their country is not a good thing, we can all understand that having a narrow minded focus and only using or relating such choices and limiting options to picking between base closures or more troops dying. We have to remember to think progressively and consider other options out there. Like success in the surge, progress on the battlefield, less troops dying in the second half or 2007 since the beginning of the war prior to the surge. There's a lot more going on over then and we have to appreciate the fine effort our young men and women are giving this country.

If you're doing a psych study on neo-cons having the rational of either die or close bases then I suggest you keep your day job.

"I served my country. Now go smoke a bowl hippy so others can die for ya. "

Couldn't have. You didn't die. You like our boys dying so much then go do it. Die.

I'm not even going to get into publicly held companies and financial disclosure. An easy concept but way beyond you. What kind of neo-con are you anyway? You hate your hero's Corn Ethanol subsidies. You think Corporations are evil doers. Are you a closet liberal?

Larry Craig say's "Come out of the closet BJ"

How much more retarded can one get...I dunno, maybe I will wait to see what else you post. How much more narrow minded could you be. Just because I'm a conservative doesn't mean I support ethanol. Doesn't mean I think all big companys do evil. I don't agree with everything as I'm open minded, apparently a trait you didn't recieve.

You're quick larry craig out is about as narrow minded as you are.

He still can, there are several private security firms.

Thanks for the answer bj. It is exactly what I expected.

You get a hearty Hillary-inspired LOL!

You post crap with nothing to back it up. You try to blame what the neo-cons have done on the Dems, or liberals or whomever. When proven wrong it's I don't agree with everything they've done. blah blah blah. Spin spin spin. Aren't you dizzy by now?

Yes I do

Sounds like you work for the Ministry of War. Good thing our soldiers are getting killed so Boeing's stock doesn't drop... Disgusting. That's probably the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Don't say that, he could take that as a challenge to out do his previous posts.

All this is fine and good, but we should have a whole bunch of new threads about this idiotic war...I want to get back to the liberal conspiracy to buy water for almost nothing in order to help redneck farmers who would never vote for a Democrat in their miserable lives, and to help fish and wildlife...

BJ, explain to me again how that conspiracy works?

Thanks, in advance.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd
I would like to know what you want to do , Stop selling water to the farmers ,making them pay more for the water, what is it you would like to see happen ? If you want to end the water supply the eastside will turn back to desert how it that going to help the enviroment ( dust bowl ) or better yet the kent valley really a good fish friendly area ! My two cents I think we as farmers are doing more for fish then a lot of people in our state. Our crops are excellent water filters ,our sprayers are computer and GPS controlled to maximize our coverage with the least amount of chemical unlike the home owner who dumps fertilzer and spray on their yards with a backpack sprayer . Back to the kent valley take a look at a storm drain during a down pour there is a reason for that rainbow flowing down the parking lot . We also have taken steps to maximize our irrigation by using low flow nozzles or misting booms .We still have alot to learn but we are trying

sod,

I'm not sure why you're asking me...I haven't said one thing against this proposal, which, by the way, I support.

If you want to hear the reasons why it's a liberal conspiracy that ought to be whined about, ask BJ...it looks like you'd like the same answers I'd like, to wit, how can this be a liberal conspiracy when...

1. It costs virtually nothing
2. It benefits mainly Republicans

Fish on...

Todd