I grew up with Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan ( who was a POS) Bush, Clinton, and Bush Jr..

Is there any doubt that Bush Jr is the greatest P.O.S to run this county in the last 15 decades ??? Also want you to know that Reagan was just the same.... maybe worse..

$4.49/gallon for regular gas down the street from me, what do you think?

No. No doubts or arguments there.

+1

+1...with no reservations.

Even some of the dipshits of the past managed to do something good, and I think it's debatable whether or not Dubya has done anything good whatsoever.

Fish on...

Todd

He and Cheney have sure done well for themselfs and thier friends with thier oil stocks. The last 8 years have been a joke and it aint a very funny one either.-TBJ

I liked Ronnie. Why do you think the Iranians turned over the hostages the day he took office?

If we could have a democratic person in office who would do more than lob a few ineffective cruise missles at the bad guys once in a while, I might vote for one.

That said, GW is a putz.

GHW Bush was, and is, a man's man.

I cannot believe you would lump Reagan into that group. Just the fact he helped end the cold war has put him down in history as one of the greatest presidents of all time.

Because the RNC paid them to.

They were being released no matter what. The RNC paid them to wait until after the election. In essence they were held hostage longer because of Reagan.

Thought ya oughta know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy

Reagan was also a senile half-wit who couldn't make a decision to save his life. His handlers (Casey, Atwater, Regan, Bush & the gang) his wife, and an astrologist from Hollywood did all that for him.

Remember what happened to the price of airline tickets when Ronaldo de-regulated the airline industry?

F'n Republicans.

I also remember when he turned out the Mental Hospitals onto the streets, took away school lunches from children, and implemented Trickle-down Reaganomics.


"A major contributor to the budget deficit was the impact of the tax cuts during the first five years of Reagan’s presidency. He gave $750 billion in tax relief to individuals and corporations. Thirty-five percent of all the individual tax relief went to the top five percent income earners of the country. The average person making $15,000 a year ended up paying $100 more in federal taxes than before the first Reagan cuts went into effect; however, those with $200,000 in annual earnings received an additional $20,000 in tax relief.

While creating significant revenue reductions, Reagan also increased military spending by $123 billion in his first budget, and aggregate military total of $2.3 trillion in military spending for his first five years in office.

Reagan campaigned against the federal bureaucracy, vowing to reduce the size of the federal government. However, after Reagan's two terms, spending by the federal government was one-quarter higher, factoring out inflation, than when he got there; the federal civilian workforce had increased from 2.8 million to 3 million; and federal spending, as a share of Gross Domestic Product, had decreased by one percentage point to 21.2 percent."

He created 16 million jobs, unemployment dropped and inflation decreased.Deficit did get out of hand....

"RR knew the average married military member was living quite a bit below the poverty level."

...along with millions of new poor people after his eight years were up, not to mention the tens of thousands of metally ill people he dumped out into the streets.

Fish on...

Todd

I still like him.

Yeah, so do a lot of people.

Not a problem that G-Dubya has.

Fish on...

Todd

You are correct on that one.

ANYBODY can buy an oil stock.

look up Rockefeller- standard oil a true pos Now called EXXON

look up Al Gore- Occidental petroleum.

none of these guys want the price of oil up, it eventually means more drilling in places they dont want to drill.
They are already rich. Yet some people like it, if you will take the bus more often.

Gold is up, you dont care, but someone got rich on gold, wheat, natural gas, fertilizer, steel, etc.
You dont have to buy an oil stock or the USO oil index to get rich.


i have to admit Cramer might be right about oil.

China and India demand is up and is growing fast
The saudis had to turn up the pumps to get the same amount of oil from the previous year (running low)
They like the price.....
oil is more expensive to drill for in new deep water wells like Brazil

Never thought I'd miss Nixon!

No real effort was made to determine if the Reagan team negotiated with Iran for the delay or immediate release of the hostages before he was elected. The reason for that is that if it had been looked into and proven, it would have constituted TREASON! It is treason to represent yourself as the government when you hold no such authority - that's just the start of the problems with that whole mess.

And curiously, they found nothing - wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more. It must have been an urban legend that the Reagan team negotiated behind the scenes

PS I voted for Reagan in '84

If you would have put Ronnie on the stand and asked him about it back then, I'd wager he'd have "not recalled" that any more than the other time he didn't recall negotiating with Iran.

Fish on...

Todd

"end the cold war" no a little war in Afghanistan bled the soviets dry just like it's now doing to another stupid super power. Reagan's term also started the norm of using social security to cook the books. That class act also cut college funding, student loans and grants. Only the rich deserved an education.

"It took time for Reaganomics to work, but it did." are you kidding? Don't you remember employment drying up in 1989?

It's getting a little hot in here! I hope nobody mentions Iran-Contra....

I also like Ollie North.

Hmmm, when comparing administrations and scandals, does Oliver North = Scooter Libby?

For all of you to say that RR was a bad president is laughable. He had nothing to do with the ending of the cold war huh? The USSR was trying so hard to keep up our military and its communist/socialist economy it couldn't keep up with free market. And then it bled itself dry through our covert actions in Afgan. Your freinds Carter and Clinton would have never allowed that to have happened because they would have been scared to death of bad press. They would rather hide under there desks calling for talks or playing pin the cigar on/in the intern. Sadly, niether will our next Dem nom.
RR attempted to role back your beloved social programs that reward the lazy and penalize the hard working. How dare he tell people to work for what they get and stop blaming others for their problems. He attempted to end the ridiculus tax code that tells most of the people to pay nothing and get handouts while others foot the bill. What happened to ask not what your country can do for you. The party seems to be fit more for those who ask how much their country can give them for free.
Lets go back to the Carter age. Stand for nothing, run from everything. Problems are dealt with a call for talks and giving in to all demand. Then when that doesnt work.....maybe we were not nice enough.....give some more. We are on our way there with Barrack. How exciting. One of those guys who says something different every time the audiance changes. The love of no personal accountablity, big government, high taxes and more social programs to take from the hardworking and give to the lazy. The good times are here again.........Maybe I should get on wellfare.

Wow.

I mean really. Wow.

You have yourself convinced of that, don't you?

I'm speechless.

And all this time I thought that bright red hue on your lips was makeup, not Kool-aid.

Sorry docspud, but that was JFK - he was a democrat.

Inflation is directly tied to government deficit. Economics 101.

Reagan created a HUGE deficit through MASSIVE military spending.

Therefore, Reagan created the inflation which ruined the economy.

Simple logic, but I guess there's no point if your head's up your ass. It's like trying to teach the deaf to dance.

Mikespike,
If you read it you would realize I said what happened to the party of....Yes JFK. And I wonder how we got to Carter/Obama since then. How we got to the point of a party standing for what it does now.

Yeah we might as well attribute the downfall of Russia to JFK and the space race.

Irie, i have taken many economics classes and it is not directly linked. In fact I have a book right here in my office for those days and I looking it up, missed that passage. But if it helps your arguement, stand by it.

Let's not forget that decisions were made after consulting pyshics.

No GI bill for you.

Yeah?

Where are the "missing" billions in Iraq? Where's the f'n ACCOUNTABLILTY?
Who was fired for the "faulty intelligence" that led us into Iraq? Where's the ACCOUNTABILITY?

Did you miss the part where Reagan INCREASED the size of the Federal Govt.......just like GWB did ONCE AGAIN? Sounds like BIG GOVERNMENT to me.

And you goats who think the cold war is over may want to check again. Same game, a couple different players, and THIS time it's the "war on terra". Still costing us billions, though. Funny how that wroks.

What boogie man is everyone going to be afraid of next time, so we can ignore what a p!ss poor job Republicans and Democrats do?

I see it now - misread it the first time. Sadly, neither party stands for anything except greed anymore.

Agreed one hundred percent Dan S but it is the lesser of two evils for me. Bush was not a good republican and spent way more than he should have. Seems to be the way our country works these days....Those in power just take and take and take. Spend for there own and do no good. I dont have my head in the sand about it. The fear mongering is B.S. as well. But again, lesser(hopefully) of the two evils. And with the differences in Obama and McCain it is clear enough who I agree with. Will McCain do what he says.....They never do but the fear of Obama actually do half he says causes me to back McCain.

That's the problem, doc. It's been that way as long as I can remember.

There has to be a way to put an end to that.

300 million Americans, and the best two we can run are McCain and Obama? Reminds of the last trip on the merry-go-round with GWB and Kerry......or GWB and Gore. Can we NOT get good candidates on the ballot?

Create spending limits on campaigns, a government fund to supply ordinary citizens matching funds for a run at the presidency, and absolutely no contributions from corporate entities. Oh, I guess that would make things a little too fair for some people.

That's funny. I'm positive my Sherry's ex husband worked his way up in military rank by sucking dick. No training necessary.

No president gets a good review from the public. As long as I have lived, there is always some opposition to whoever is in the whitehouse. Its my belief that puppets are operated by strings. The president is nothing more than the puppet. They are pulled on by many strings of influence (parties, lobbiest, corporate entities, military generals, personal interests, and the PUBLIC...............etc). I dont think we have any idea of what it is like to have the job of president of the United States. There is no way that any of us would do any better job in the public eye. I believe that we have our own strings that we are pulled by and influences our opinion of the government (media, peers, hype, BB posts). If we keep scaring ourselves into thinking sh!t is f@cked up..........................then it will be f@cked up.

As far as the GI bill. That thing is great. For a $1200 dollar investment I got a masters degree for about half the cost as regular joe/josephine would have.

One word Iran, but asshat Obama was quoted as saying that Iran was a small country and not a threat...f'n Dillweed! Then of course changed that the next day to " Iran is a grave threat " he has appeaser written all over him and will be exposed during the general election.

J7,

You need to stop injecting reason and logic into arguments. That is just plain unfair.

Most polititians if given a choice between doing what is best for their party or best for the country will pick their party.

Dammit Jerry, now you're doing it!

Fixed that typo for you.

None of it could have happened without Congress' help.

It's time for a switch to parliament - and no, not George Clinton and P-Funk

They have run, but they usually arent good looking enough, good enough liars and I think, in the case of Steve Forbes and p e r h a p s.... Mitt Romney, they are smart savy, successful, and they dont NEED to be president.

I got out of the military right after Ronnie Regan took away the G.I bill. I then bought my first house , 14 % interest... " Just say no " was a really effective campaign, because as you can all see, we no longer have a drug problem. He out borrowed the U.S.S.R, and racked up a debt like never seen before.. until now. That guy was a duttering fool being used as a mouth piece for Big biz.. a lot like the ass clown in charge right now.

I guess it just ticked me off to know that we are going to get a bad deal this time regardless.. What really pisses me off is our money is worthless. It took about 5 years for G.W to sink this ship...

B-run,

Getting back to your topic, yes Bush II is the biggest POS ever to inhabit the White House. I never thought I could hate a president more than I hated Nixon, but thanx to Dumbya, he made it possible. I was no fan of Reagan for the several reasons already listed in this thread. I think he was given way too much credit for things he didn't cause and far too little blame for problems he did cause. It seems like being an A$$hole is a requisite for being president of this fine country.

Sg

I remember reading a great article about this once by William F. Buckley............what he basically said was the very steps a person has to take to run for President virtually assure that nobody with the right qualities to be a GOOD president would ever even want the job. It takes a pretty sick individual to want to run a country in the first place. That is a type of megalomania on a level thats hard to comprehend. A successful candidate has to compromise all standards of truth, consistency, accountability and morality to win an election.

Personally, I'm sick of this spoiled, punkass rich-kid frat boy we have now. I can't stand the sound of his voice and he has the laziest work habits of anyone who's ever held that office, with the possible exception of Taft, who ate pastry all day long.

Im not concerned who hates which president, but in general I think its unhealthy for the electorate as a whole, that so many people put all the blame or all the praise on one guy. They all have a huge numbers of people working in the white house, in the departments and many of them make policy that work against the administration. You have left over democrats working for republicans and visa versa. Valery Plame and Joe Wilson were two such people. Both are democrats. Why pick them?

I read an article today, that has two senior people in transportation submitting plans, one is looking for alternative means of funding highway infrastructure and another one is in favor of another approach. The last time the federal gas tax was raised was 1993. They all have their own agenda.

More importantly is how the federal budget is put together. They have a "current budget baseline" as opposed to a zero budget baseline. Currently, federal expenditures automatically increase 10% every year. So when you hear about your favorite program being cut, its being cut from a 10% increase. Thats one of the reasons that these old programs never get disolved.

The president doesnt spend money. Only the congress can appropriate funds in the budget. During RR the House Majority leader announced the Presidents budget was dead on arrival, almost every year.

According to Michael Reagan, Reagan made a deal with the house in 86 or so, when they did have a tax increase. The deal was for every dollar in new taxes, the congress would CUT 2 dollars in spending. The cuts never came.

Remember the S and L crisis? Someone convince Bush 41 to raise taxes to bail out the s and L. Then they beat him over the head with something they passed in congress to do.

The president doesnt control the Fed. In 92 up to the election, Chairman Greenspan held interest rates up even though everyone joked in the newspapers about him seeing inflation snakes everywhere he went. By the time the election was held, the economy actually had 3-4 % growth in the third qtr. of 92. That and Perot cost him the election.

The Fed chairman Bernanke was late coming to the rescue of the large banks and reducing interest rates. The banks of course had so much bad paper that they all wrote, they didnt trust each other and Libor rates, which is the rate banks charge each other for short term loans has been pretty high.

Now that energy and commodity inflation is hitting consumers, this fed chairman and the fed res board is considering interest rate hikes. Normally the fed hikes rates to quell inflation, but there is no guarantee that energy inflation is going to be stopped with that kind of policy. In addition, the Sub prime crisis, is not over. More mortgages will go into default and although there is help, homeowners are not reaching out for help. We still have a glut of homes in a number of states and increased interest rates will kill a lot of sales. (All of which has little to do with the whitehouse) Subprime was the creation of bankers and traders to the extent some mortgages were sold so many times, its difficult to know who owns your mortgage. The regulators did not police the banking institutions and the rating agencies like Moodies were not paying attention, and a lot of ratings were to high. The mortgage insurers were a case in point. Bear Stearns is no longer in business. The stock was 170 dollars per share last year and JP Morgan came in and scooped it up for 2 dollars per share and in a week or so the shares came up to about 10 bucks.

Countrywide Mortgage, the largest in the nation was bought by Bank of American and now they are sweating the paper losses in CWM portfolio.

Washington Mutual screwed up bad and all of these banks have laid off a lot of people. Foreign countries have bought some of these loser securities.

Citibank and others were cuting up to 19,000 employees at a whack.

Remember JUNK BONDS? Michael Milkin. The S and L crisis, the sub prime loan crisis are all bank and trader type of creations and they cause a lot of trouble when the bubble breaks.

None of these guys call the white house and get the ok to do this crap.

All of these institutions answer to congress. We all remembers how well congressman ran their own bank.

Congress is no different than the FW Commission. If you dont write, you dont exist. Actually you do exist. You're on the menu.

I'd like to nominate Mayor Greg Nichols for our local POS. He is attempting to supercede State Law and take more of our rights away.

In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one's sovereign or nation. Historically, treason also covered the murder of specific social superiors, such as the murder of a husband by his wife (treason against the king was known as high treason and treason against a lesser superior was petit treason). A person who commits treason is known as a traitor.

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

Outside legal spheres, the word "traitor" may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong. Often, such accusations are controversial and disputed, as the person may not identify with the group of which they are a member, or may otherwise disagree with the group leaders making the charge. See, for example, race traitor.

At times, the term "traitor" has been levelled as a political epithet, regardless of any verifiable treasonable action. In a civil war or insurrection, the winners may deem the losers to be traitors. Likewise the term "traitor" is used in heated political discussion – typically as a slur against political dissidents, or against officials in power who are perceived as failing to act in the best interest of their constituents. In certain cases, as with the German Dolchstoßlegende, the accusation of treason towards a large group of people can be a unifying political message.

Murder is now generally considered the worst of crimes, but in the past, treason was thought of as worse. In English law high treason was punishable by being hanged, drawn and quartered (men) or burnt at the stake (women), the only crime which attracted those penalties (until the Treason Act 1814). The penalty was used by later monarchs against people who could reasonably be called traitors, although most modern jurists would call it excessive. Many of them would now just be considered dissidents.

In Shakespeare's play King Lear (c. 1600), when the King learns that his daughter Regan has publicly dishonoured him, he says They could not, would not do 't; 'tis worse than murder: a conventional attitude at that time. In Dante's Inferno, the lowest circles of Hell are reserved for traitors; Judas, who betrayed Jesus, suffers the worst torments of all. His treachery is in fact so notorious that his name has long been synonymous with traitor, a fate he shares with Benedict Arnold, Brutus, and Quisling.....and now we can add GW Bush.

Dogfish, the Iranians turned over the hostages for weapons. Remember the Iran Contra deal with Olie North taking the fall for Ronnie. GW is the diggest DipSH!t we have had in the 51 years of my life.

Does Bush qualify to be brought up on war crimes?

Would like to see Cheney interrogated with his approved methods until we know all about his little energy conference.

Congress voted overwhelmly for the war remember? You want to put 70 % of them on trial too?

That sounds good. Lets just start over with no good old boys in there to corrupt the newbies. Ban lobbyists also.

That vote may have been influenced by Bushco`s B S intelligence.

Congress's defense is they were not provided the truth. The Bush admins attempt at a defense is it was the CIA's fault.

The same info that The Clinton admin had and every other intelligence agency in the world. Hell Sadamm himself was a weapon of mass destruction..good enough for me.

Last time I checked the whole intel com had access to all teh info. Dont hold those Dem's responsible though because that would not fit the bash bush agenda. Just for the record....everyone saw it and come to the same conclusion and teh defense of I didnt read the report because I was lazy doesnt hold up. He is an idiot but to say it was all him and not teh rest of them is calling the kettle black.

And they STILL chose not to do what Bush did. For the reasons you see now.

Clearly the intelligence was WRONG... and not just a little. But, then again, it WAS used selectively and dissent was ignored or punished. It didn't get much coverage but Phase II of the bi-partisan Senate report on Iraq intelligence just came out a few days ago and it makes the Bush administration decisions look even worse. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1812507,00.html This is the report that was delayed for years because of what it would say.

Bush himself is only a small portion of the problem. It is his administration as a whole that is the machine and has worked on many fronts to steer America far from its ideals. Lack of accountability, lies, cronyism, politicization of the justice department, outing spies, using nationalism to scare people, and illegally spying on Americans are just some of the issues that make him a standout POS politician. The fact that he (and most of the Republicans) don't see this and/or have enabled it is my big problem. Are the dems much better? No, but if both parties are going to be giving away money, I'd rather have them giving out handouts to the poor rather than the rich. The days of saying Dems are "tax and spend" while Repubs are "fiscally conservative" has been proven patently false and people should be reminded of it.

And, yes, anyone that approved the war should be looking for a new job regardless of their political party. I, like nearly every other American, didn't have access to the "intelligence" but I could still smell that bullshiat 3000 miles away. One of the saddest parts of 9/11 for me was seeing how quickly some in power sought to use America's mourning and rage to make money and further pre-conceived agendas.

-Kaiser D.

Everyone's heard how immorality and debauchery led to the fall of the Roman Empire.

Bullsh!t.

Poltical corruption and greed led to the fall of Rome, and if we as citizens continue to allow political corruption and greed to dictate how we vote, it will also lead to the fall of the US Republic.

The biggest threat to our nation is us, and the government we elect.

Unfortunately, it looks like we don't actually elect our president any more

And because the econony has me so beaten down thanks to the regime, it's time for a segue into lyrics land-

I got patches, on the patches, of my old blue jeans
well they used to be blue, and the used to be new
and they used to be clean

Been lovin' the dirty deeds lately DanS! Nice fish on the other thread too!

Thanks, Mike.

Here's another line from that same song that seems to apply these days.

"Feeling like a paper cup, floating down a storm drain.
I got myself a sailing boat, but I can't afford the gasoline."

How f'n broke is a guy who can't afford gasoline for his sailing boat?

Dirty Deeds is a great album/disc. I like to play 'Squealer'..........real loud......when the house is empty.

Keeps the neighbors and Jehova's Witnesses away.

Funny.. just cranked up " Touch too much "

.. A body like Venus with arms...

There's nothing like the site of your neighbors running from their house and their ears are bleeding! Hmm, maybe a new form of "questioning" for POS Bushco and friends. I'm gonna get Guantanamo on your ass!!!

It'd help if some didn't vote because "He's the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with". I've met a lot of these guy's but I'm not giving them the keys to my truck.

Unfortunately, the guy that is trying to get Bush impeached probbly should have asked someone else to do it for him...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/11/kucinich.impeach.vote/index.html

Most every polititian has a pandora's box of past life issues.

Q: Biggest P.O.S EVER !! ??
A: Yes, without a doubt.

His dismal approval rating (29 percent the last time I saw) is the lowest in American history I believe. Pretty sad when your approval rating dips below that of Nixons.

Even more sad is the fact that since I have been 12 years old all I've had for Presidents is Reagan, two Bush Leaguers, and Clinton. I didn't particularly love Reagan or Bush Sr., but I didn't hate them the way I hate Bush Jr.

I think the major difference between the elder Bush and the one that will thankfully be leaving office here soon is who they surrounded themselves with. Sr. had some level headed dudes in his cabinet helping him run our country.....Jr. had War Hawks like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz helping him make decisions. Hence our atrocious foreign policy.....

Ike

Hankster - Members of the House of Representatives are voted on every 2 years. Senators every 6. We (voters) have the power, what do we do with it?

the only thing a politicain ever has to accomplish is getting re-elected, maybe its the system...

Where are all the Bushies now making all sorts of excuses for him? ATTENTION ALL RATS ABANDON SHIP NOW.

And if McSame gets elected we'll have four more years of Bushco lite.

Obama will have to try harder than is likely humanly possible to achieve Bush's POS status Aunty. I can understand not being too excited about Obama or even opposing him as a candidate. I can't see any objective (such a thing?) analysis concluding him being worse than Bush. Sort of why I'd vote for a monkey before I'd vote for Bush.

Sg

Yeah, I have to agree with Salmo, Aunty. Your opposition to Obama is approaching a strange level. I can see him not being your guy but I can't see why the high level of animosity? It is practically dripping off of your posts. And it has been from the get-go.

You're quoting Hildabeast?

Stop it, Hank.

Approaching a strange level???? That is well in my rear view mirror.....

Kool-Aid appears to be VERY intoxicating... especially to conservatives.

I dont think anyone will be too happy over the next four years.

Not so wild predictions.

Obama- increased taxes on everyone over 15,000 not all the same tax
- no drilling required
-govt health care for kids
- greedy oil company tax
- more cigarette taxes
- massive jobs programs
- Hillary is sworn in after someone is successful starting a race war.
- BC takes over control of UN
- unions get new legislation.
- veterans come home except new bases in Kuwait, Israel
- oil hits 200
- Drug trade increase in Pakistan
- Ru486 legalized
- two supreme court nominations.
- defense spending is cut.
- more police are hired
- legal rollbacks on tort reform and welfare
- Assault weapons ban passed.
- registration of all firearms required.
- Lawsuits against cigaretter companies resume
- Lawsuits against fast food giants begin
- Lawsuits against gun manufactures resume
- fairness doctrin passed causing the collapse of AM radio.
- gay marriage goes 50 states
- inmates give retain voting rights
- kioto treaty is signed
-slavery reparations is passed.
- new education bill is signed
-unfunded mandates on new clean air act.
-v-8 tax excise tax
- coal tax passed to fund solar ethanol increases
- 2010 census
- Statehood for Puerta Rico
- cap and trade legislation passed
- minimum wages to go 9.00 dollars
- gay men allowed maternaty leave.

Personally as a stock holder in big oil, I can not thank the dem's enough for driving up the price of oil, profits, and share holder dividends, thru the banning of off shore drilling, the banning of oil exploration in anwar, the banning of building new refineries, and the banning of drilling in the Dakota's and Rocky Mountian states.

As long as the dem's continue to whore themselves out to radical enviromentalism, I will continue to see records returns on my personal folio.

Keep up the good work,

D-squared

Those ones have already happened. Most under either Bush I or Bush II.

Tax increases HAVE to happen to pay off Bush's War Debt. You dont pay for your house, you eventually lose it.

Some of that's real tinfoil hat stuff you listed. You know Censuses are required by the constitution? ALWAYS have been? It's essential to the apportionment of Congressional delegates.
And that Veterans, by definition, are the ones already home?


"CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

ARTICLE I Section II
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons"

Irie,

First of all, Cap and Trade legislation was just defeated in the Senate.

If you look at the list and seriously think they wont be revisited, you have been asleep.

Thanks for the petty correction about veterans status. Regardless of where the bases are, not all the soldiers will be coming home if Obama is elected. My point about the 2010 Census, was unfinished. We can expect serious gerimandering. Since it hasnt happened yet, its still a prediciton. Perhaps you dont want people to think about the future games that could be played. Should Obama get more voters and lose the election, you will hear more cries about getting rid of the electoral college.

The assault weapons ban passed under clinton and ran out under Bush. The exact name of other legislation restricting semi automatic and automatic weapons is unknown to me. They only reason they have not clamped down on guns further is the fact that a lot of single women voters are now gun owners.

When compared to global warming predictions, these are not so wild. Did you believe Ted Dans claims about the oceans some 14 years ago. What happened to the population explosion predictions and the food shortage.

At one time, a round earth or flying was tin hat. At one time, 100 dollar oil was tin hat.
At one time, star wars technology was tin hat. However, the US military currently has at least one jet that has a lazor in the nose to destroy incoming missles. The planes were a cost saving measure.

Tax increases (do not have to happen) Democrats raise taxes, because they are unable to tell anyone NO! They have been buying votes for a very long time. The federal budget increases, automatically 10% per year. All cuts come out of a 10% increase. I find it absolutely bizarre that no politician has seriously talked to Iraq about paying for this war, with their own oil. At 135 per barrel, it would not take long to pay back the US. There is nothing that will repay families of dead and crippled soldiers but money is always a good start. Deficits are not new to Democrats, after all, they threw in the social security trust fund into the general budget. Meanwhile Chile has a privatized social security retirement system.

I dont care if you think they are tin hat. Predictions of the future are inherently subject to ridicule. Wild or not remains to be seen. But then, the messenger is always the first one shot. At least you can keep hoping for the other half of the list. Lighten up, I probably dislike McCain more than you do.

If you are interested in the truth, which I think at least a few are, you should check out factcheck.org. It is nonpartisan and does present the true facts. May not be for everyone, the truth I mean. Some people would rather get their truth from Rush or FOX tv or Air America. Choose your own kool- aid.
http://www.factcheck.org/

Nice one, LB. LOL... you sound like Paul Wolfowitz from 2002!

The Kool-Aid is ice cold... drink up!

Seems someone needs to read more. Even the Saudi's are saying there's no justification for sky high prices as demand has not risen much. HEDGE FUNDS are to blame. BTW, how much oil would have been produced by now if drilling had been allowed in ANWAR? ZERO.

Kool aid, in itself has become a bastardized, joke phrase. Its not only insulting to people of religious faith and those who back a political candidate or party, it trivializes the death of hundreds of people who were involved in a cult. Having a different point of view, does not mean ones interest lies in suicide. I dont like either candidate for president and Im not a one issue voter.

One news report stated that McNixon came thru and took the campaign cash to use in other states. If the candidate doesnt think he can win Washington, it wont matter what anyone says on this or any other forum in this state.

At least CCA donations are spent on state issues.

Stlhd, Dont confuse quote from the Saudis, short term increase in oil prices versus long term world demand. Oil is up again today, since their are some production issues in Africa nations.

The debate over Anwar is decades old, if my info is correct, Carter may have talked about drilling there. We are not drilling there because of opponents. Now they just want to say it wont make a difference today. They use Anwar as the example for the entire production issue, not a percentage of the total output. They talk about all the leases in Colorado, the gulf, the coast, etc that oil companies arent using. Well, the lease is only the first part. It doesnt guarantee you the drilling permit or keep you from getting sued, before you drill. Again, they are not thinking decades into the future. Demand is one million barrels higher per day, than supply. By 2017+_ china will have more freeway miles than the US.-source Modern Marvels.

Ya, hedge funds buy oil. So does your parents retirement account. HE was blaming congress and doesnt think Obama will improve it. I have to agree. They will of course, but it will take a full blown recession and five to six dollar gas before congress feels enough heat. Only republicans want to drill. Some Dems may want to drill, but environmental groups have a lot of power and money.

The same short term logic transferred all of the social security funds, into the general fund and supposedly wrote an IOU. They spent every dollar, and its not even included in the National debt. I watch the subcomittee on the budget, when the 94 congress was trying to balance the budget. Dems kept trying to amend it by including the SS trust fund. Unfortunately, GOP played games with it too. The 2000 Census was paid with emergency funding. which is listed off budget. Our current ROI on SS is about 2%. Much less than private accounts.

Even the industries own research, which they tried to keep secret, showed that the amount of expected oil is a nit. ANWAR is about massive tax subsidies flooding into the hands of a few yet again. It has little to do with oil except to try to break the hold we the people have on our last vestiges of open space.
Who's "they"? Who's preventing new refineries? Who's preventing existing approved drilling?
Demand is higher than supply because demand is not controlled but supply is. No free market capitalism at play in the oil bus. And when it get's to the US it's maniplulated even further.
This is the ever corrupt cirle of oil. When a new admin is elected the price will drop. Never to what is was though but it always magically happens.

"The same short term logic transferred all of the social security funds, into the general fund and supposedly wrote an IOU" Started with Ronald Reagan.

So the tax subsidies would be paid to oil companies on land that has an inconsequential amount of oil? Lets see the proof.

It turns out, I wasnt completely right on the SS fund, at least according to these guys. But it wasnt Reagan. I knew it was LBJ. Read down to the question about the general fund. Since you probably hate Reagan, Ill throw in a bonus for you.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/sschanges.asp


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

Be Brave.

"Personally, I do not take a single source as truth...but that is just me"
And me. I just put that link as a source. I get forwarded email all the time from people who don't even vet their info through snops at the very least.
You can almost always tell that the facts are fake when the email starts out with "this is true".
I understand that most sources have at least some bias or agenda.

Oh man, are you reading my mind? You are 100% correct. And we get to witness this historic event... 8 long years of the worst administration ever to inflict its twisted vision on this country. If we recover from this dark period in time we will have really done something.

It will take a long time, and a lot of money, to fix the total fukkup left here by BushCorp, by far the biggest POS this nation has ever seen, and hopefully will ever see.

The conservative Kool-Aid drinkers will easily be able to blame it on whomever comes next, but even under all the fluff they know the truth...BushCorp has fukked us, and good, for a long time.

Besides, it's all Clinton's fault, anyway, isn't it?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Using "Kool-Aid Drinkers" is a perfectly apt description.

It describes a cult-like following of believers who, in the face of all facts and logic to the contrary, continue to cling to what they are being fed by their masters.

It is what even a few within the Bush Administration have told us...those of us who live in the "reality-based" world won't ever be able to fully understand what they are doing, because much of it is based on fundamental beliefs or policies that are firmly planted in Fantasy Land.

There is no other way to describe the 29% left who still approve of Bush.

Bush's got my vote! As a POS of absolutely gargantuan proportions.

Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".



Long overdue my friends, long over due.

Ed

Bush, the biggest P.O.S. ever? I agree and punishment for our sin of electing him will be President Obama.

I may be wrong but didn't the president have a republican majority in the senate until 2006? Ya, must be the D's fault.

Just for balance in regard to our region. WA state has owned the governors office/senate/most mayors and county councils... and still can't get [censored] done. Must be the R's fault.

Doesn't matter what side you're on we're the one's being screwed. But to stand your line with this POS is pretty funny.

Where the hell is B_J when you need him.

"In this here land of prosperity some are willing to jump ship & trade in our freedom because….not sure why.... rhetoric? Or is it because house prices are falling & gas prices are rising?"



Are you referring to the Homeland Security Act?

BWP,

And don't you just love your right to haebeous corpus? Oh yeah, Bush single handedly removed it. Now the Quantanimo detainees have it, thanks to the SCOTUS, and you and I don't!

Sg

Loving America is the first, best, and last reason to think George Bush is the biggest P.O.S. ever.

Once the Big Brother Soviet Union went away, he and his neocon asswipes decided that someone had to fill the void...so they did.

Fish on...

Todd

Here you go Todd, in case you've forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVYp1hE4D0g&feature=related

I don't consider myself a Bush supporter by any means, but what's done is done, there's no changing History. But at least Bush had the balls, to take the fight to the real PIECES OF [censored]. Unlike the Clinton!

This is no time to elect a weak leader. If anyone thinks those P.O.S. won't attack us again on our soil, your wrong.

Mf

I hope you're not really implying that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had anything to do whatsoever with attacking us...are you?

We totally dropped the ball on the ones who actually did, and the Taliban is regaining its power in Afghanistan as we speak...and Osama is still out there, and Bush "doesn't really think about it much" when asked where OBL is.

Fish on...

Todd

That definition is not exclusive to those who disagree with you Todd....you could certainly fit that definition from your viewpoint...unless, of course, you are always right.....naaa you're just drinking a different flavor.

Not just me, but "reality" says that G-Dubya's "war on terrah" is an abject failure...the 29%'ers are the Kool-Aid drinkers.

It's not really a matter of opinion, so in this case, there is indeed a "right and wrong"...besides, I thought that's how the RWWJ's like things, black and white, stark line, no relativity?

Fish on...

Todd

Having about?

Mf

Thought I drop in and see what the Bush bashing circle-jerks were doing!
*shocker* Say does anyone in here hate republicans just because...lol

Gawd dayum republicans! We need to get rid of them so we can pay more taxes! What we really need is every lane to become a "good-to-go" lane so the lumberjacks won't get confused which lane to ride in for that global whining thang. Hey I was watching those False news network(Fox) and your boi Obama was on there talking business. LOL. He said he wanted to get rid of the Bush tax cuts and revert back to the Clinton tax plan...bwahahahahaha, couldn't Hillary do that on her own? Welp I know, I know it's hard for you guys to understand, you probably think it's fake! They must have had a dummy of Obama on instead of the real fool.

Oh well, no sense in trying to change the minds of the numb...go ahead and vote for UH-bama.




Peace out!

Whether he is the biggest POS ever will be up to the history books to decide. I know that I feel he has done real damage to the country I love. I will vote (for the first time in my life) a straight ticket this election. It is important for us to have at least 2 strong, vibrant parties in America and the GOP has totally lost their way, IMHO. The only way they can find their way back is to get slapped so hard that they wake up and smell the coffee. I hope that others will join me in slapping them.

Raking in more than 250K/year these days, huh BJ?

Read up. From liberal commie Rupert Murdoch's crew. Pay special attention to this bit-

"Obama's silence on taxes is a bit puzzling, because independent analyses of his plan compared with John McCain's well-advertised tax cuts show that the vast majority of Americans would be better off under Obama than McCain.
That bears repeating: Obama would cut taxes for ordinary people more than McCain would.
According to the Tax Policy Center's analysis of the two candidates' tax plans, 80% of taxpayers would get more from Obama's cuts than from McCain's. About 95% of taxpayers would pay lesunder Obama than under current law (which ends many of the tax breaks passed in the past decade)."

Read it yourself. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/obama-missing-chance-campaign-tax/story.aspx?guid=%7B654C85A3%2DBA02%2D4DE8%2DBAB2%2D296135323425%7D

Copy and paste the URL.........it won't show as an active link.

I'm still not in Obama's camp. I'm yet to be convinced, but peddling BS is peddling BS, whoever the peddler. And it looks like this whole idea of your taxes going way up is BS unless you're raking down big bones.....and if you are, you'll pardon my sympathy meter not pegging.

I'm more interested in spending, and who is going to get a handle on that. Lately, it seems neither party has any interest in getting spending under control. Control the spending better, and the tax issue is more easily resolved. What was your plan........spend money on credit, and NOT pay it off?

Whoever gets elected is in for a tough job........finding a remedy for the idiocy of the Bush Administration. Trillions in additional debt to pay off, an energy crisis without any significant plan to adress it, a sluggish job market, a resurgance of the Taliban in Afghanistan while our troops are bogged down in Iraq, Osama Bin Laden still walking free........piles of trash everywhere for the next administration to attempt to clean up.

And there's BJ still polishing on GW's sack. Shocking.

That's why spending is my number one issue. You either spend, and raise taxes to pay for it, or you control spending and make tax increases unnecessary.

Can you tell me how one increases spending, cuts taxes, and doesn't run up a tremendous amount of debt the next generation of workers will be responsible for paying off?

Don't mistake me for an Obama supporter.......or a McCain supporter. As of now, I'm neither. But if I need to believe someone's take on taxes, I'll believe the Tax Policy Center before I'll believe either candidate's camp.

Once again, it looks like I'm stuck with candidates I don't really believe in. Just like always it seems..........

Biggest POS ever?
Toss up between Reagan and W

I think the 94 congress started out pretty good. Sadly they also began to lose their way. Looking back, Id have to say that Bush was Gore light. A prescription drug plan was a bad idea from the beginning. Based on history, I think McCain would like to cut spending and balance a budget, it remains to be seen if the other side will let him get anywhere close. I suspect, he wont mince words, like Bush does. Bush is not a brawler in my opinion.

And since you do such a good job of research, maybe you could show me where running up the deficit was policy.

BTW there is a movie called IOUUSA, I missed it, but it may be expanded to more theater or at least put out on
video. Buffett and some other tycoons did a forum and the problems are large and the remedy is going to hurt, no matter what party in the whitehouse. My brother saw it and found it useful.

Want some cheese with that wine?

Hey Aunty M this is for you and you other neo's







F.G.O.P.

Mf

It's morons like this that make my mind up when I vote.

Comparing Reagan to W?

How f'n stupid can you get?

Well if it isn't little Rusty the tough talking midget from Tillamook. Hey Rusty remember what I used to tell you over on QFA?
GFY!
You know you are right Rusty. Maybe Reagan isn't the biggest POS ever! I think maybe you might be

It worked!

Shane lost it.

Too dam funny.

Once again, showing ones true character is something to consider.

Oh hell, Rusty I lost it a long time ago so what is your point?
I think you secretly have a man crush on me.
Actually we should go fishing some time! We both share an intense dislike for the red witch of the Kilchis

Shane.... go away.

I cant help but feel sorry for you. Really, it's sad.

Politics suck....Period! It brings out the worst in people and it's messed up on both sides. I dont like the personal attacks, and I dont like what happens when people decide to slam politicians or people on fishing boards.

Let this thread die as it should have long ago.

And I dont have a dislike for the red witch of the kilches as you put it. We disagree on a couple of things, I am O.K. with that.

You should consider getting a brain doctor, you need help.

Oh, thats why the media isnt talking about it. Thats why Mr. Not ready for prime time is talking about the economy, even though the recent polls say foreign policy is the number one issue with voters. (No possible connection between Georgia and Biden) What transendental pot smoking yoga guru turned you on to the word REALITY?

Rusty,
You're a punk and always have been and I think smelling all that cow crap has affected your brain.
Oh and GFY!

"Bush's economic policies have led to the slowest, smallest job growth ever."

You do know that most of the large companies like Proctor and Gamble have around 40% of their sales overseas. That our population is moving to old age like a rodent in a snake with no real population increase on the near horizon. That when baby boomer are done or nearly done retiring, the contributors to the SS system will drop from 3:1 to 2:1. That companies like Harley are relying on China and Europe for growth. That the growth in those countries is so high, that steel prices are through the roof, which makes building infrastructure and building very expensive here. Scrap steel is 200 dollars a ton. Not long ago it was 400 a ton. Back in 05 Scrap steel was under a hundred per ton. The lack of drilling in the states and refinery capacity, along with ethanol has really increased to cost of farm products, both green and living.

That Joseph Biden specifically stated that the subprime loan crisis is due to
Lax congressional and regulator oversight, since the hedge funds require One million net worth to invest in hedge funds and since the govt wont insure that, they dont have specific regulation to cover the investments.

Was this program for lax loan requirements and low interest rates called the American dream initiaitve? Wasnt it started during the Clinton administration? And really, should we have expected such great numbers since 2000, since we had a small recession the year of the election and followed by an undeniable tragedy, with long lasting effects?

Granted the value of the dollar was not supported with more than words, since they kept spending in congress, long after they defeated republicans. over excess spending. So what have they done lately. Obama wants universal preschool? Finland keeps their kids at home until they are Seven and they out score all other kids. (however apparently mothers are subsidized to stay home. )

Frankly there are more people in the cross hairs on this than the whitehouse. (Greenspan?) The tech bubble of the nineties was not a reflection of Clinton Gore, but how much could they improve the explosiion of computer sales, along with downstream business. Those stocks were priced for perfection and they still are.