I would be willing to bet that unchecked/semi out of control development and population growth have far more to do with the fisheries problems we have today than tribal fishing. The tribes are just more visible when they do stuff, especially to sports guys on the water all the time. Does anyone really think that an illegal net in the locks does more damage than all the houses built around the shores of lake Washington, Sammammish and on the plateau?

When deciding who to vote for I ask, who will be more likely to limit/plan the real problem, rampant development? Is it developer/BIAW stooge Rossi or Indian controlled Greggoire? At least the tribal administrations, if not individual tribal fishermen, have an incentive to insure that some resource continues to exist so they can continue to pursue their treaty rights. Not so with developers.

If I have to choose between a house 100ft back from the edge of the river or a net stretched from one side to the other.......I think I will go with the house. The fish would too, I am sure.
And anyone who thinks the bowing to every wish of the tribes and getting nothing in return is a good idea is an F-ing idiot. I love the crowd that blames everything on one group and gives the others a pass. those rose colored glasses you know. Those are always the same ones that scream the loudest too. I remember what my father told me years ago......Seldom is the loudest one in the room the smartest, even if they clame to be.

What if a fish had to chose between thousands of houses next to streams, rivers and lakes permanently eliminating most of its required habitat and a next across a stream blocking passage at some times? What if a fish had to chose between tens of thousands of culverts and dams permanently blocking its spawning passage or a next across the stream at some times? I think the same is true for logging, clearing and road building throwing silt into streams. It is a losing argument to assert that anything but habitat is the biggest issue facing salmon. And Rossi and his developer buddies are less likely to address the habitat issue in a way beneficial for fish.

I doubt anyone here is arguing for totally caving into the tribes. I would not want a free pass for the tribes. I would always like to see those tribal members who break the rules prosecuted. I would like to see the tribes play by the rules as written or better yet, remake the rules, but that wont happen with Boldt, we are never going to be able to change it. I would really like to see the tribes step up, use their casino money, and exercise their treaty rights by requiring habitat fixes to correct the stuff that has been so screwed up.

We all know that with the environ laws in place we are never going to see ten houses much less ten thousand built up on the rivers edge as was done in the past. Those days are over and thank God for that. The fear tactics of saying "Rossi and his developer buddies" is no better than the other side evoking 9/11 or the war on terror. And we all know how much your side likes that fear mongering. Dont follow suit with this.
The laws are in place to keep a minimal comercial impact if they are followed and held to the standard they were set for. If they are not then we take their license and send them to some jail time/fines. We need to address teh nets in our rivers and it should have been done with the casinos but wasn't. Then days ago we had another shot and what happened there, didn't do it again. Just caved and gave more gambling rights.
The gill netting during native runs is one of our biggest, if not the biggest problems facing our fish. No matter how many times you say it isn't so does not make it true. I was here when it started adn watched first hand the impact and I see it still today.

The whole reason the GOP is attacking her on her stance regarding Tribal issues is because the have no other leg to stand on.
They are trying to get the Rec. Anglers on the westside to turn against her...

...Since the Eastsiders and the Commercials are already in Dino's pocket from the get-go.

Its not like Republicans can say their policies work for anybody but the top 1%. We're experiencing that this very day.

how can you tell when a lawyer's lying?
either his lips are moving or fingers are typing...haha...

Well from the article, "Gov. Chris Gregoire is benefiting from more than $650,000 in campaign contributions from Indian tribes that hit the jackpot in 2005 when she killed a gambling compact potentially worth more than $140 million a year to the state." "The money would have been dedicated to projects of "mutual importance to the state and tribes" such as Puget Sound cleanup, salmon protection, culvert expansion and transportation projects." I suppose 140 million from tribal gambling earmarked for salmon and habitat projects would be a start.



Gov. Locke was able to put together an agreement where the tribes honored the "no commercial crabbing zones." (Back to Lopez Sound) The day she took office out come the pots! Imagine that!!!! There is a reason every Gammie I've talked to from Curlew to Forks dislike her! And to those who think I'm a conservative patsy I voted for Locke twice and would be thrilled to have the opportunity to vote for him a 3rd time.

I can fully understand folks concern that Rossi will allow development to run rampant. My dilemma is that from my Condo in Bothell up thru the Sky valley is nothing but development run rampant. Just like I would hope that Gregiore could use her influence with the tribes to improve habitat I would also hope that Rossi could use his influence with developers the same way. Unfortunately she has not shown one bit of leadership regarding growth. Tax, tax tax for nothing nothing nothing!

Still undecided-

p.s. I appreciate everyone's opinion!

Marsha, I don't ever "go after you", or anyone else...I just like to have a civil conversation, something that you are utterly unable to do with someone who is not lockstep with your faux 'centrist' position.

There's no explanation necessary, not that it's my job to explain Gregoire's actions, anyway...she wants a review of whether or not the requested spill regime actually helps fish, or just helps the cottage fish recovery industry you are so happy to complain about...sounds like you should be agreeing with her to me.

If you have a problem with her, bring it up with her.

Fish on...

Todd

Marsha,

Yet again you are mistaking me for someone who gives a rat's ass about what you think, especially when you feel the need to open your mouth and spout about stuff that doesn't concern you in the least.

What I was saying he was ignorant about was talking about "history" of the fisheries, and that "history" didn't include nets or commerical fishing, which it clearly did.

Fish on...

Todd

Really? You sure have a lot of crying and whining to do about whatever I write when I don't agree with your faux centrist BS opinions...

Fish on...

Todd

Aunty,
No need to defend me. I can handle it myself as I do know my facts.
Todd,
you can show your ignorance and call me ignorant but here is my point and was my point then. Culture is one thing, fine. But historically, the native americans did use nets but they were built of weaved cedar, pulled by cedar canoes. Not nylon drift nets pulled by jet boat. The nets were primarily used to herd fish though some were kill nets. They were at the longest 50 to 100 feet not hundreds of yards. The modern gillnet fishery has nothing to do with tradition and was a strickly european creation.
Similar point was taking big game. Recurve bow.....300 win mag.
Worse yet Casino gaming.......Hoop and pole or jacks.............becomes 5 star casinos with blackjack, poker and slots. Not quite teh historical way of doing it. Do I want them in hte stone age, no. But do I think they should build five star casinos because it was their tradition to play stick and hoop, that is a bit of a stretch if you are saying it is cultural. Poker, slots, blackjack, craps, and all the other games have nothing to do with native american "tradition". Thats the point and call it ignorant if you like but dont pretend your all knowing and the rest of us dont know what is going on. Now lets all be nice and move on. Sorry for teh dust up created.

I remember looking at tribal smokeshops 25 years ago and thinking that Indian tribes could buy a big chunk of territory back by exploiting our vices and adding liquor stores, gambling, and brothels. Three down, one to go!

They are going to have to outbid the Chinese and Arabs if they want more land.

WTF happened to Bikini Thursday?

Looks as if it was moved to a Moderator only page. The pics are still there, thanks guys!

Jerry has to be the coolest member of PP that has a gay character as his avitar pic.

Well... maybe BlueJay.

PSSSSSSST! "Viva Jueves!" thread. SSSHHHHHHHHH...........

Most of you folks on this thread crack me up.

Deals between State government and large organizations are done everyday. Influence peddling is as common a feature of our legislative and executive branches of government as rain in Forks. Big corporations have been getting tax breaks for a loooong time. When Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago, WA State about had a cow so they offered up something like a billion in tax cuts (over so many years) to them. Were you yelling for an investigation then? I doubt it. I suppose its OK for the CEO of some big a$$ corporation to get something for that $250k they contributed to XYZ's political campaign but surely we can't allow the same thing for them tribes... why, that's just un-American!

Here the tribes are "movin' on up" and getting the kinds of resources that get people's attention, and they cut themselves a big fat deal and all of the sudden...

INVESTIGATION needed.... them tribes are screwing us agian.

Right... most of you need to wake up and smell the java.

The tribes have figured out how the real world works and they are playing the game like the big boys play it... now you want to change the rules? Think about it.