So...here comes the next four page topic...

McCain performed far better than I thought he would...that being said, his points about Ayers are ridiculous, and while they pander to the base, they don't do anything at all for the middle, and those are the folks who have already thrown their tentative lot in with Obama, and those are the ones he needs to persuade. Points scored with his supporters, no points scored with those who he needs to win the debate.

His line that he's not Bush, and that if Obama wanted to run against Bush, he should have done so four years ago was pretty good...but he didn't do anything to distance himself from Bush except for saying we need change, and that he's not Bush. His policies, especially the economic ones, are the same ol', same ol'...

He made a massive mistake on the conversation regarding Roe v. Wade...again, his comments made the base ecstatic, but they aren't the ones he's speaking to right now, not unless he wants to win. It might have been the last nail in his coffin regarding stealing Hillary supporters...they won't like what he had to say.

He made good points about himself not being a racist, not being a member of the KKK, and his personal pain at being portrayed that way...especially since it was Palin's rally where that crap really came up, and she's the one who didn't stop it from happening.

At that moment, had Obama looked McCain in the eye, said "John, I respect you very much, and I do not think that the views represented by those fringe lunatics in any way, shape, or form represent your feelings..." and then stood up, and offered to shake his hand...had he done that, then the election would be over right now, two weeks before the voting even takes place.

A fantastically missed opportunity by Obama.

Obama's even keeled responses, though somewhat vanilla, are exactly what caused polls about the last two debates to show he was the clear winner...sticking with that attitude won him the first two, and will likely win him this one, too.

Obama did a great job of pointing at the allegations from McCain and showing that they were false...and McCain blundered by bringing some of them up, since they've been very publicly debunked over the past couple of weeks.

Overall, I think this was McCain's best debate of the three...but he failed to move the middle anywhere near him, and may have in fact further pushed himself away from the undecided and independent voters.

Based on that, I give it to Obama, though not by a large margin.

It's mostly academic, on that point, since McCain really needed to knock it way out of the park to gain anything at all, and at best he energized his stalwart supporters only, and at worst, may have further alienated the very middle and independent voters he absolutely must sway to win this election...time is running out, and he's never going to make it now.

Fish on...

Todd

Your new medication seems to be working.....

" Senator Goverment" lol

That one had me cracking up, too, SD.

That was a quality 'Zzzzing' even if he didn't mean to say it.

I forgot about that one, Sol Duc...that was a pretty funny slip by McSame

Obama also did a fine job of not knocking Palin, in spite of the preponderance of material she's produced for it over the past couple of weeks...yer damned if you do, damned if you don't...but less damned if you don't, as she's her own (and McSame's) worst enemy...letting keep on keepin' on is the best thing Obama can do with her.

Fish on...

Todd

Here's an idea.

Let's talk about negative campaigning for 20 minutes while our economy teeters on the edge of disaster.

Goats.

RON PAUL 2008

And let's assign a commision on steroid use in baseball, but not on credit default swaps/Fannie/Freddie/Bear sterns/ etc.......

Would've been if motivated by wit rather than alzheimers.

How the Hell did John McCain ever win the GOP nomination?

John's in maturity is painful to watch, thank god this was the last debate.

Mf

I worked on a portion of my ditch tonight. Seriously. I raked out the portion of the drainage ditch that goes through the DOT easement that my neighbor and I share. Really, it is a foreign policy issue.

After raking out the final contures of my ditch, I placed 600 feet of the primary export of Bangledesh in 148 feet of ditch, then seeded it with 50 pounds of grass seed. Can you guess what I put down?

Last night I installed 30 feet of 12" corrugated culvert. Dirt work is my newfound passion.

Bangladesh's main export is textiles.

You put clothes in the ditch?



































































































Or burlap perhaps?

DOT spec slope stabilizer is the best mix I've delt with, sprouts fast and holds well. Jute is decent but there are better blankets.

KK got it!

Jute matting. Since Jute matting is a "woven material of fiber" it counts as textiles, so Dan S shows that even Oly Bears paid attention in CWP their senior year.

Todd, please pay KK off in a few RF spoons.

Basic contractors mix for the grass seed( Scotts), and a little fertilizer (appropriate for tonight's debate). I would have had it in a few weeks earlier if the city hadn't dicked me around, and it would have been sprouting by now.

Takes a week and a few two day follow-ups to bail out the US financial sytem, and 20 months to get utilities to a property owned free and clear. Talk about fawked up.

Aw, hell.

Outsmarted by KK.

That's not supposed to happen.

Hemp is better than Jute.


Anyway my 'puter died today. Dead. Won't even turn on.

Besides, I plan on spending the time leading up to the election in a drunken stupor.

I'll check in occasionally on my back-up to make sure things aren't getting outta hand.

I think you pretty much called it Todd on the Pres debate.

But, how about the debate for Governor? I thing the Governor's debate that followed was interesting. They each were behind their podium, as if chained there to keep from attacking earch other. It was almost like two dogs chained to a stake so they didnt' fight each other. I wish someone woudl have let them go. Instead they just growled toward each other.

So Hank, you voting for Ron Paul too?

I am very scared looking forward. He will be the next pres. I have no doubts and I am not in denial as many seem to be. His pollicies are socialist adn with a dem controlled congress there will be no check on him. He stated this crap about 95% tax cut. Well 40% pay none now and he wants to just send a check out of the pocket of those who will pay far more under his plan. Socialism at its finest and how well does that work around the word.
To put it in prospective.......If you raise my taxes as much as he proposes I will have to cut expenses at my offices. The expenses cut come directly out of the economy. If we dont end up letting some staff go, which would likely happen, we will certainly not be building out. That is money directly out of the our local economy. Less construction trickles down like less houses being built and we have seen what that did for us. I listen to people with the "whoo hoo" I will get a tax break that is three times larger.......I try to explained that that is picked up by their employer who will no longer be able to give them a raise and might have to cut back at their job and then they start to get it. A $500 larger tax break does not mean nearly as much as a promotion or possibly thier job.

I was not impressed by the debate. But then, I'm not impressed by the candidates either, so that's a wash. I'll be voting for Obama for the same reason I figured I would nearly a year ago. I'm voting against the Republican National Committee.

On a tangent, philosophically I understand the conservatives who are concerned that liberals in general and Obama in particular, lean toward socialism. However, that philosophy evaporates for me what with Bushco having grown the federal government by about 40% in 8 years, and with the largest corporate welfare in the history of the nation under the watch of the neo-conservative administration. It's beginning to make socialism look more attractive to me. I mean the socialist European countries have a higher standard of living, longer vacations, and in Italy and France they eat the best food, drink the best wine every day, and have sex every night. Now what's so bad about this socialism stuff? Other than they don't have salmon and steelhead fishing?

Sg

Classic !
Talking points for the telepromter ?

SG,
Better wine....yes. Longer vacations......some do. Better food.....when you add in the shiaty service that is debatable. Higher standard of living.....No. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world. Many live beyond their means to get there but teh standard is higher.
Socialism leads to stagnant economies that have high unemploy rates and no chance/incentives for growth. Hense the youth riots in the streets around many countries. If you punish hard work and reward laziness you will get more laziness. If you tell someone that every time they step up big brother will knock you down they will sooner or later stop stepping up as well.
As much as certain people complain about what we have in this country, we have it pretty good. Take our health care system. It is not free and the insurance comp screw drs as well as pts but if you put it in the hands of govern the standard will go down. The incentives to find new drugs, better materials, and new and better procedures will be gone if there is not money to be made. The best and brightest will not go into it if they cant make a living. People here talk about how great teh coverage is in other countries but when the well off there get sick they come here to get their ops. Why is that?
Capitalism works. Rewarding hard work works. These people who take advantage like the CEO's in recent years should be made examples of. They hurt our country and everyone in it. No buy outs or sweet stock deals....the stockade would be better. But dont demolish the house for one rotten board though.

So when CEO's work really hard to run a company into the ground, they should be rewarded with millions in severance pay.
Your right we don't want to reward laziness, friggin commies.

Did you read the last paragraph free? Try that.

I made it for about 10 minutes. I was too embarrassed for both of them to continue. McC was HORRIBLE! O is clearly a better speaker, and is much quicker on his feet, plus holding the apparent lead, makes things a lot easier on you.

McC has some real problems, especially being behind in the polls, and his VP is a boat anchor on his campaign. She sucks, is out of place, and was a huge tactical blunder. She will make out like a bandit from it though, once this is all over, and I hate that.

But really it comes to the issues, and I am in line with McC on 3 big ones, even though I think as a leader, he sucks. I think O's health care plan is a joke, and I like McC's. I think about something like Lazik surgery, that is not covered by insurance. Look at how much the prices and technology have changed over the years. It was something that was exhorbitant and scary, now it is affordable and commonplace. The reason for that is the free-market, and competition among doctors to make money at it. If insurance gets more competitive, I just cannot see how that could be bad. Many small businesses/sole proprietorships in WA are hamstrung by our current insurance situation.

Having worked for DoD, McC's beating of the drum to cut defense spending, and privatize that work rings exactly true for me. I worked on the 4th floor of a 5 story building. One day we made an estimate, and determined that each floor of that building cost the taxpayers $120K in PAYROLL ONLY a day. A day! Based on what I could tell 50% of the employees could have done the work, and still had time to screw off for 2 hours a day. When we would work with contractors they would have 5 staff to our 35, doing the same work, with the workers making twice our pay, for 1/3 of the cost to the taxpayer. Defense spending is a joke on the homefront, Ft L. is already going private for capital improvements, it is time for the rest of the DoD to follow suit.

The third is nuclear power. It is time, the technology is good enough, and the long-term effects are quantifiable, and controllable.

O appears to be just another tax farmer, and it will be bad for my business if he passes his new tax laws. Israel is fcked after he is elected.

Who really started this thread? Don't go trying to tell me it was Todd, because I know that's just BS. (J/K)

For the most part, I think that Todd-imitator guy got it right. And to top that, he impressed me with his coherent flow of thoughts.....more so than either of the candidates.(Todd...very well stated!)

I can't agree with your conclusion because I don't think that Obama is what this Country needs, even if he is what most folks THINK they need. We have arrived at a point where throwing more money at a money-spending problem, if we are very lucky, might prevent a full scale depression, but it is NOT the long term solution. And I don't think that most of Obama's supporters understand that concept.

This whole recession solution is nothing more than an over reaction to irresponsibility.....and guess who has been the MOST irresponsible?.....No, it's not Bush.....No, it not the Banks, nor Fannie nor Freddie. It's the dumb-ass whose signature is on that Deed of Trust for a house that is quickly becoming worth less than the original mortgage.

And the plea is what? Stupidity? Greed? Oh, OK....so now it's time for MAMA to feed those who wouldn't live within their means? This bailout is Welfare, at it's worst. And I don't get any feeling whatsoever that Obama gets that. His solutions only speak of more spending and care-taking to me. No thanks, I'm a big boy now. I'm not convinced McCain is all that knowledgeable, but I do believe that his heart is in the right spot. He'll get my vote.

Slab, my only conclusion is that the only points scored last night were with people who are already voting for him, and that he's on the road to getting his ass kicked...and bad...in the electoral college.

Don't agree with that conclusion?

Fish on...

Todd

Docspud,

My comments were partly t.i.c. and partly serious. I think by most yardsticks, the Europeans do enjoy a higher standard of living. That isn't measured just by paychecks. I think the yardstick - measured in averages of course - includes things like education, health & longevity, work & time off & other benefits.

Yeah I know that some, like wealthy Canadians particularly, come to the US for procedures that they'd have to wait for under Canada's socialized medicine, but most of the other western countries citizens seem to live well enough with the flaws of socialized medicine. While socialized medicine may not be as good for you, I suspect it would be welcomed by those Americans who have no health care.

Frankly I don't think the health care system can be fixed. I'm disappointed that politicians aren't more honest about that. Modern health care has become so expensive that I don't think it will ever be available to the entire population. Our society needs to burst the fantasy bubble that every American can have the same health care as the US Congress. It can't. I doubt that in a free and informed election that our society would ever choose to spend the amount of money it would cost to deliver that level of health care to 360,000,000 Americans. That said, I think we can deliver a basic level of health care to all Americans at an affordable cost. The major obstacle being that the difference between the basic level and the best of everything to everyone level is an emotional rather than a rational discussion, and most Americans won't make the rational choice. Ergo, not fixable in my estimation.

I don't argue that capitalism doesn't work. But define work. Does it deliver the greatest good to the greatest number? If unregulated, I don't think so. If insufficiently regulated, we get the current mess. And it's not just one rotten board, unfortunately. Rewarding hard work will always contribute to a greater success. Whatever the economic model selected, it needs to be thoughtfully regulated in order to be successful for its society. I don't think the stockade will do anything to bring about the necessary change. I think blood in the streets, the blood of those who brought this about, including the guilty members of Congress and the administrations, might initiate a shift in mindset. Must be time for a second American Revolution?

Sg

Slab, McCain's heart is in the same place as his many buddies who are at the heart of the problem of deregulated banking. I guess there's a certain guilt by association there, even if it's due to McCain's ignorance of economics, which he does profess. It's not that Obama doesn't get it. He's smart enough to get it and probably does. However he's on a path of personal empire building too, and doing the right thing for the country would get in the way of that. That flaw is so deeply ingrained to members of both parties, just distributing the spoils to different interest groups. There is no "good guy" running in this election, but you probably already know that.

Sg

Todd...Salmo G......conceded. Sadly so, but nonetheless, conceded.

Sure there is.

He goes by the name of Ron Paul.

....and the Ron Paul wave continues to build.

Wouldn't it be awesome if a write in candidate won the popular vote?

Is McCain really as short as he looks on TV? I know Bush seems short but he's actually like 5'11" or 6'......but McCain looks to be about 5'4". Last time I checked, that height can only get you the nod if its 1798, not 2008.............

I think that Obama is something like 6'4", and he doesn't walk around with his neck tucked into his shoulders like McSame does, so he probably looks half a foot taller when they stand next to each other...McSame's probably about 6 feet tall.

Plus, people do get shorter when they get older...and McSame ain't no spring chicken...he's a winter goat.

Fish on...

Todd

Maybe we should send you over there and let them beat on your assss for a while and see what you look like 30years later!!!!

Quimber, I don't fly planes, but if I did...I'd make damn sure I didn't crash.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. !!!

There are good Navy pilots, then there are the ones that get shot down. McCain probably should have paid better attention in flight school.....

No point in outsourcing what could be done locally better......<grin>

well said

It appears that McCain was a reckless pilot who liked taking risks. He crashed two other planes besides the one that took a SAM. It would be unfair to criticize him for getting shot down. He knew the SAM had a lock on him, but he hadn't dropped his bomb load yet. So he stayed on course, dropped, and got hit. Reckless, nerves of steel, stupid, all might be appropriate. But it would be hard to say he did the wrong thing since his mission was to bomb a target, munitions or AA station, I forget.

TODDBAMA? KKIDEN??? Either of you two nimrods ever serve??? If so one would think you would have a better understanding of how hard it is NOT to get shot down . Any given mission, any pilot, navy, air force, marine, army
inside a missle environment has a 50/50 chance of being shot down. The fact he survived that AND being a POW, speaks of what kind of man he is. One tough motherf**er!

Didn't think so.... It shows

Thank God.......I mean look at how far that took our nefarious PP cheerleader turned non lawyer big mouth political know it all pseudo-tackle leech. Toddbama...bbrreeaatthh

But to you KK I'm sure you still refer to him as "sweety".

E-4 when I got out, turned down SSG as a re-enlistment offer, best choice I ever made. Also, when looking into re-enlisting in reserves, was offered OCS, but turned that down too. Being in the military allowed me to grow up, something that could have obviously helped you with your arrested development issues.

Thought you drove a lawnmower????

Now that is something I can believe... Thanks SJ for driving home my point .

Keep it up Toad your on a roll you steaming pile of dog shiiit....
Of course you havent flown a plane because you to much a a flailing pussy....


God I love fuuuckling with your wanna be liberal ass...

Come here little guy!!

Quimber, if you think I'm scared of a loudmouth redneck with a penchant for showing he's not quite as smart as the wedge he uses to split logs, than you are sadly mistaken.

Fish on...

Todd

No wonder Obammy believes so much in wind power, look at all the windbags who back him up......A never ending supply of hot air! So laughing!!!!

Not only are you insulting McCain with your sniveling.. you insult my son who served tours in Afghanistan & Iraq. Like SJ said, you whiners seem to forget how it came to be that you still have the freedom to pontificate your lefty B.S. on the internet. People like McCain, Kennedy, Bush Sr., Washington, and yes even Kerry.. Remember who bought you that freedom.
Slam me all you want I don't give a damn, but lay off the vets who fought for you. I myself had orders for 'Nam, but America withdrew, and my orders were recinded. Yes I was relieved of that burden to fight, but would have followed those orders without hesitation. Notice I didn't say 'without question', as 'Nam was not a declared war but a police action. But I still would have done my duty, with Honor. Could you lefties say the same???

This one has gone well past the line.

Say goodnight to this one.