SG,
Better wine....yes. Longer vacations......some do. Better food.....when you add in the shiaty service that is debatable. Higher standard of living.....No. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world. Many live beyond their means to get there but teh standard is higher.
Socialism leads to stagnant economies that have high unemploy rates and no chance/incentives for growth. Hense the youth riots in the streets around many countries. If you punish hard work and reward laziness you will get more laziness. If you tell someone that every time they step up big brother will knock you down they will sooner or later stop stepping up as well.
As much as certain people complain about what we have in this country, we have it pretty good. Take our health care system. It is not free and the insurance comp screw drs as well as pts but if you put it in the hands of govern the standard will go down. The incentives to find new drugs, better materials, and new and better procedures will be gone if there is not money to be made. The best and brightest will not go into it if they cant make a living. People here talk about how great teh coverage is in other countries but when the well off there get sick they come here to get their ops. Why is that?
Capitalism works. Rewarding hard work works. These people who take advantage like the CEO's in recent years should be made examples of. They hurt our country and everyone in it. No buy outs or sweet stock deals....the stockade would be better. But dont demolish the house for one rotten board though.

So when CEO's work really hard to run a company into the ground, they should be rewarded with millions in severance pay.
Your right we don't want to reward laziness, friggin commies.

Did you read the last paragraph free? Try that.

I made it for about 10 minutes. I was too embarrassed for both of them to continue. McC was HORRIBLE! O is clearly a better speaker, and is much quicker on his feet, plus holding the apparent lead, makes things a lot easier on you.

McC has some real problems, especially being behind in the polls, and his VP is a boat anchor on his campaign. She sucks, is out of place, and was a huge tactical blunder. She will make out like a bandit from it though, once this is all over, and I hate that.

But really it comes to the issues, and I am in line with McC on 3 big ones, even though I think as a leader, he sucks. I think O's health care plan is a joke, and I like McC's. I think about something like Lazik surgery, that is not covered by insurance. Look at how much the prices and technology have changed over the years. It was something that was exhorbitant and scary, now it is affordable and commonplace. The reason for that is the free-market, and competition among doctors to make money at it. If insurance gets more competitive, I just cannot see how that could be bad. Many small businesses/sole proprietorships in WA are hamstrung by our current insurance situation.

Having worked for DoD, McC's beating of the drum to cut defense spending, and privatize that work rings exactly true for me. I worked on the 4th floor of a 5 story building. One day we made an estimate, and determined that each floor of that building cost the taxpayers $120K in PAYROLL ONLY a day. A day! Based on what I could tell 50% of the employees could have done the work, and still had time to screw off for 2 hours a day. When we would work with contractors they would have 5 staff to our 35, doing the same work, with the workers making twice our pay, for 1/3 of the cost to the taxpayer. Defense spending is a joke on the homefront, Ft L. is already going private for capital improvements, it is time for the rest of the DoD to follow suit.

The third is nuclear power. It is time, the technology is good enough, and the long-term effects are quantifiable, and controllable.

O appears to be just another tax farmer, and it will be bad for my business if he passes his new tax laws. Israel is fcked after he is elected.

Who really started this thread? Don't go trying to tell me it was Todd, because I know that's just BS. (J/K)

For the most part, I think that Todd-imitator guy got it right. And to top that, he impressed me with his coherent flow of thoughts.....more so than either of the candidates.(Todd...very well stated!)

I can't agree with your conclusion because I don't think that Obama is what this Country needs, even if he is what most folks THINK they need. We have arrived at a point where throwing more money at a money-spending problem, if we are very lucky, might prevent a full scale depression, but it is NOT the long term solution. And I don't think that most of Obama's supporters understand that concept.

This whole recession solution is nothing more than an over reaction to irresponsibility.....and guess who has been the MOST irresponsible?.....No, it's not Bush.....No, it not the Banks, nor Fannie nor Freddie. It's the dumb-ass whose signature is on that Deed of Trust for a house that is quickly becoming worth less than the original mortgage.

And the plea is what? Stupidity? Greed? Oh, OK....so now it's time for MAMA to feed those who wouldn't live within their means? This bailout is Welfare, at it's worst. And I don't get any feeling whatsoever that Obama gets that. His solutions only speak of more spending and care-taking to me. No thanks, I'm a big boy now. I'm not convinced McCain is all that knowledgeable, but I do believe that his heart is in the right spot. He'll get my vote.

Slab, my only conclusion is that the only points scored last night were with people who are already voting for him, and that he's on the road to getting his ass kicked...and bad...in the electoral college.

Don't agree with that conclusion?

Fish on...

Todd

Docspud,

My comments were partly t.i.c. and partly serious. I think by most yardsticks, the Europeans do enjoy a higher standard of living. That isn't measured just by paychecks. I think the yardstick - measured in averages of course - includes things like education, health & longevity, work & time off & other benefits.

Yeah I know that some, like wealthy Canadians particularly, come to the US for procedures that they'd have to wait for under Canada's socialized medicine, but most of the other western countries citizens seem to live well enough with the flaws of socialized medicine. While socialized medicine may not be as good for you, I suspect it would be welcomed by those Americans who have no health care.

Frankly I don't think the health care system can be fixed. I'm disappointed that politicians aren't more honest about that. Modern health care has become so expensive that I don't think it will ever be available to the entire population. Our society needs to burst the fantasy bubble that every American can have the same health care as the US Congress. It can't. I doubt that in a free and informed election that our society would ever choose to spend the amount of money it would cost to deliver that level of health care to 360,000,000 Americans. That said, I think we can deliver a basic level of health care to all Americans at an affordable cost. The major obstacle being that the difference between the basic level and the best of everything to everyone level is an emotional rather than a rational discussion, and most Americans won't make the rational choice. Ergo, not fixable in my estimation.

I don't argue that capitalism doesn't work. But define work. Does it deliver the greatest good to the greatest number? If unregulated, I don't think so. If insufficiently regulated, we get the current mess. And it's not just one rotten board, unfortunately. Rewarding hard work will always contribute to a greater success. Whatever the economic model selected, it needs to be thoughtfully regulated in order to be successful for its society. I don't think the stockade will do anything to bring about the necessary change. I think blood in the streets, the blood of those who brought this about, including the guilty members of Congress and the administrations, might initiate a shift in mindset. Must be time for a second American Revolution?

Sg

Slab, McCain's heart is in the same place as his many buddies who are at the heart of the problem of deregulated banking. I guess there's a certain guilt by association there, even if it's due to McCain's ignorance of economics, which he does profess. It's not that Obama doesn't get it. He's smart enough to get it and probably does. However he's on a path of personal empire building too, and doing the right thing for the country would get in the way of that. That flaw is so deeply ingrained to members of both parties, just distributing the spoils to different interest groups. There is no "good guy" running in this election, but you probably already know that.

Sg

Todd...Salmo G......conceded. Sadly so, but nonetheless, conceded.

Sure there is.

He goes by the name of Ron Paul.

....and the Ron Paul wave continues to build.

Wouldn't it be awesome if a write in candidate won the popular vote?

Is McCain really as short as he looks on TV? I know Bush seems short but he's actually like 5'11" or 6'......but McCain looks to be about 5'4". Last time I checked, that height can only get you the nod if its 1798, not 2008.............

I think that Obama is something like 6'4", and he doesn't walk around with his neck tucked into his shoulders like McSame does, so he probably looks half a foot taller when they stand next to each other...McSame's probably about 6 feet tall.

Plus, people do get shorter when they get older...and McSame ain't no spring chicken...he's a winter goat.

Fish on...

Todd

Maybe we should send you over there and let them beat on your assss for a while and see what you look like 30years later!!!!

Quimber, I don't fly planes, but if I did...I'd make damn sure I didn't crash.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. !!!

There are good Navy pilots, then there are the ones that get shot down. McCain probably should have paid better attention in flight school.....

No point in outsourcing what could be done locally better......<grin>

well said

It appears that McCain was a reckless pilot who liked taking risks. He crashed two other planes besides the one that took a SAM. It would be unfair to criticize him for getting shot down. He knew the SAM had a lock on him, but he hadn't dropped his bomb load yet. So he stayed on course, dropped, and got hit. Reckless, nerves of steel, stupid, all might be appropriate. But it would be hard to say he did the wrong thing since his mission was to bomb a target, munitions or AA station, I forget.