Nice...

http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=9698958

Another one of those...if it's cold at my house the world is fine.

I think it's funny that every single credible scientist...thousands of them...knows that global climate change is a problem, and that we're causing it...but the same 21% who think Bush did a good job use their wealth of ditch digging and plumbing experience to debunk it.

Claiming it's not real is about as stupid as thinking there are WMD's in Iraq, the same ones they used to blow up the WTC on 9/11, with Saddam Hussein at the wheel, but he used black magic to return to Baghdad without being blown up himself.

Fish on...

Todd

Why not Chuck?

We started the industrial revolution and we drive more cars than any other country on earth. China and India are catchin' up... but they still got a ways to go.

Plus, how are we gonna be able to tell China, Russia, India and the emerging 3rd world polluters to clean up their act... when we don't?

None of us could have this pissing match without Al Gore - he invented this place, remember?

Nuclear winter...now that would be change and probably good for fish.

"but the same 21% who think Bush did a good job use their wealth of ditch digging and plumbing experience to debunk it."

so if I'm a blue collar worker I am not capable of questioning you or Al Gore

not saying I disagree with you or Al on this subject

please do not discount my opinion just because I get my hands dirty at work

No, No, No.
It's Nuc-U-lear Dammit!

fishguy,

I don't think that's what was said.

There are people who have spent tens of thousands of hours studying global climatology, and chance are, they understand it better than someone who doesn't invest that kind of time because they spend their time earning a living doing other things.

Al Gore is simply a mouthpiece for a group a scientists, nothing more or less. And if you're a plumber and Al Gore, or a global climatologist, was arguing with you about it, he'd be out of his league.

Now, there ARE global climatologists who argue against any human influence on global warming/climate change. However, they are clearly in the minority.

That said, humans are notoriously poor at predicting local weather, let alone global weather and/or climate, so it's quite possible that the majority is wrong. But the stakes are pretty high, so betting that the majority is wrong is a risky proposition. Because if they're right, the costs would be far greater than the costs of lessening our carbon output.

I don't find it all that hard to believe that putting 10+ billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere yearly can change the global climate. I mean, if one kid pisses in a pool, it's probably not a big deal. If a hundred or a thousand kids piss in a pool, you can see how that might have an effect on things.

What cracks me up is how sure everybody seems to be about whether humans are changing global climate. Kind of the same way people seems absolutely certain about whether there is a God or not, when there is absolutely no way to be sure...........until you're dead and cold.......and then you're not coming back to tell anybody.

I don't find it inconceivable that there is a God......or that there isn't. And similarly, I don't find it inconceivable that humans are causing the global climate to change..........or that they aren't. So how can SO many people be sure?

fishguyd, my hands get plenty dirty at work...my point is that it seems that the expertise that people bring to the table when "debunking" over 95% of the expert climatologists in the world isn't sufficient to edit those scientists' shopping list, much less their climatology work.

It's the same set of tools they bring to work when discussing fisheries biology...neither the fish nor the climate cares about partisan politics, and policy will not make science something it isn't.

Fish on...

Todd

I'm sure of things I know, and I don't pretend to be sure of things I don't.

So how can so many people be so sure of something they DON'T know?

Does that make sense?

Todd point well taken

maybe I was a little sensitve

just dont like being lumped in with the short bus crowd just cuz I get dirty I seem to get that attitude a lot more anymore

AM,

I didn't say that both had an equal probabilty of being correct........just that there IS a possibility of either/or.

Perhaps.

But in the big picture, men have screwed up perfectly good plans and systems before........and maybe they just did it again in this case.

There are plenty of people who would say you've never felt it, either.

Prove them wrong.

E=mc2

Matter is neither created nor destroyed.

These things CAN be proven.

The existance or nonexistance of a God or creator cannot.

And what makes up an atom? String theory says it and everything else is made up of vibrating strings. M theory says everything is made up by vibrating membranes. Both say there are a number of dimensions, even parallel universes, that can't be seen, measured, or tested.

But since neither can be proven, they shall remain theories.

So, your THEORY is that a creator exists. You can't prove it, and neither can anyone else, so it HAS TO be considered a theory.

You can debate it, you can insist you know, but you don't. Why is that so hard to accept?

And they say smoking that schyt kills brain cells. Don't sound like that came from two eggs in a frying pan.

I've been working on explaining the singlularity myself. F'n math is STILL holding me back.

Zzzzzing!

Becoming a cunnilinguist was one of my crowning achievments.

Did you happen to catch Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe" series on PBS a while back Dan? VERY well done IMO, and presents String and M theories in a way that's 'relatively' easy to understand. Pun intended!

Max Planck and Albert Einstein would have been proud!

4Salt-

Snap out of it - you're the autistic child of a doctor at St. Elsewhere! Hope that reference isn't too obscure...

sounds like a great series, those are the only things that make me miss cable/digital TV.

And if you think about it for a minute - Dan S, Chuck S - it's still only half a brain.

I'm sorry Mike... I just happen to be a closet physicist wannabe.

Not too obscure at all! I used to LOVE St. Elsewhere! I just hope I'm not the autistic child of Dr. Ehrlich!

Who'd of ever thought that you'd see Howie Mandel playing a doctor either!

4S,

That was a very well-produced and written series. I've been looking to hang out at the Quantum Cafe ever since.

The wife hates it when I'm watching shows like that, so she bails out to watch Oprah or some other drivel. I was watching a show on Einstein and the theory of General Relativity, and my boy was sitting there........after about a half-hour he gets up, says "this show is making my head hurt", and left to go play X-Box.

Physics was always my favorite class. If I had the same aptitude in Calculus as I had in Physics, I could have gone down a different path. But you can't really separate the two, so I guess I'm stuck doing what I do.

But I'm steelhead fishing tomorrow, and Stephen Hawking is still going to be working on an integrated theory of everything.......so I have THAT going for me.

Hmmm..........

That's all....

Keith

Or disproven.



Both String Theory and M Theory are examples of this......which is why they are both theories, or philosophies, and can't be proven as fact.



Not true. There are many sub-atomic particles. The atom is most certainly not the smallest unit in the construction of matter.



Or creation. Without atomic fission, the sun would not shine.



Of course there is more.........which is why String Theory and M Theory were postulated.



That's fine.......but there are many that don't see it that way. That doesn't make them right, and you wrong, or vice versa. I have many acquaintences who don't believe in God or a Creator, and they're fine with that, and I know many agnostics who are fine without knowing.

The day when people believe what they believe about things unproven without insisting others think the same way, this world will be a much better place. Whether that ever happens is anyone's guess.