What are others opinions on this stimulus package? I have looked through a little of this bill and can't believe the amount of useless spending that is being included.

Things that surprised me.

1. 1 Billion for the government owned Amtrak that hasn't made a profit in 40 years.
2. 600 Million for new government vehicles
3. 150 Million for the Smithsonian
4. 81 Billion for Medicaid
5. 36 Billion for unemployment
6. 20 Billion for food stamps
7. 83 Billion earned income credits for people that don't pay any taxes in the first place.
8. $650 million for digital TV converter-box coupons

How does any of this stimulate the economy

At least they pulled the 200 million for birth control.

Isn't there a way to create more job opportunities rather than beefing up dependency ?

What are others opinions on this stimulus package? I have looked through a little of this bill and can't believe the amount of useless spending that is being included.

Things that surprised me.

1. 1 Billion for the government owned Amtrak that hasn't made a profit in 40 years. ( increases/retains jobs to put whatever measures they are implementing )
2. 600 Million for new government vehicles.( retains jobs by creating a large demand for vehicle )
3. 150 Million for the Smithsonian. ( Not sure on this one, but the Smith is pretty cool)
4. 81 Billion for Medicaid. ( need to know more about this one)
5. 36 Billion for unemployment. ( puts money into the hands of the recently unemployed who will likely spend 100% of it. )
6. 20 Billion for food stamps. ( again, puts money into the hands of the recently unemployed who will spend 100% of it)
7. 83 Billion earned income credits for people that don't pay any taxes in the first place. ( puts money into the hands of low income families who will spend 100% of it)
8. $650 million for digital TV converter-box coupons. ( give an incentive to the folks on unemployment to spend the earned income credit money on a digital converter box because they can no longer afford cable )

How does any of this stimulate the economy

At least they pulled the 200 million for birth control.

Most of those look like viable economic stimulus ideas.

Dogfish,

The problem is none of those create jobs for the unemployed. It only keeps them unemployed for longer. This plan needs to create long term job growth. All it is in it's current form is a band-aid to stop the bleeding while really fixing nothing.

A retained job is just as good as a job created.

How do you know Amtrack and automakers won't be able to hire anyone because of the stimulus money?

In regards to Amtrak, tax payer dollars are being wasted suppoting a company that hasn't made a profit in 40 years and have on numerous attempts tried to use tax payer money to outsource jobs overseas. Is that the type of business you want your tax money going to?

JoJo - You must have been searchin' Sean Hannity's website huh? That's the EXACT list he was whinin' about on his show last night.

Dogfish summed it up... to a T, IMO!

Tell me how many jobs are gonna be created by just sittin' around and complainin' about EVERYTHING that the Obama administration is trying to do to stave off another Great Depression?

You do know that the White House has an e-mail address... right? Why don't you send them YOUR plan to fix this mess? I'm sure they would appreciate all the help they can get.

Nope don't watch Hannity,

I never said they should do nothing. There are other ways to stimulate job growth. Rampent spending and growing government programs that contributed to this failing economy will only delay the inevitable. First and foremost tax cuts for those that contribute to society would be a good start. Rather than for those that don't pay any in the first place. Tax cuts for corporations that still manufacture products in this country would make them more profitable and in turn increase jobs. Manufacturing in this country needs to be ramped back up. Corporate taxes in this country are some of the highest in the world. It's no surprise that jobs are leaving the country at the rate they are.

I'm all for Amtrak.

Something my wife and I have recently discovered is train travel. It kicks ass.

A rare moment of agreement with AuntyM. Thought I should note it.

If you want a true stimulus program you need to look to where jobs are being lost and where new ones can be created. I see none of that in what was mentioned. Some of it could help, but none of it is directed in such a way that it guanantees it.
Want some ideas...
1. Rebates on trade-ins of cars of a certain age or milage. Double whammy be increasing sales and helping the enviroment. Not a tax credit since this takes to long to get back to the economy.

2. Government loans on energy retrofitting. Agian, a double whammy effect.

3. Government purchasing of bad loans and reducing interest or using homes for government programs. A huge problem is the increasing foreclosure rate. It reduces the value of existing inventory (less refinancing and dominoing effect), causes banks and investment companies to fail, can cause higher rental rates, can reduce tax revenue, and is crippling the financial and building sectors.

4. Loans to the states for infrastructure upgrades. I say loans because hopefully the states can decide better how to spend the money when there is some responsibility and direct decision making.

5. Loans and incentives to construction companies for redevelopment. Right now it is near impossible to get construction loans, no matter how good the project.

6. Tax or other incentives to increase domestic exports.

7. An increase in small business loans.

8. Tax credits for companies that are expanding or creating job growth.

9. tax credits and incentives for research and development and expansion in the domestic manufacturing field.

10. Money for actually undertaking restoration projects, such as finally removing the Elwa Dam or other eviromental projects. We need to spend money on upgrading our national park system more than we do on unemployment and food stamps.

11. If we want to spend money on Am-track, they need to use the money to just lower the existing rates and let the market take over. When it costs twice as much money to take the train as it does flying, most people will end up flying. Make it cheaper and you will see more young people and families traveling that way. I would love to be able to use the train but it just to expensive. Adding railway or infrastructure will just cause it to lose more money down the road. Not sure how much maintainace is needed, but it should be less of a problem percentage wise if we could double or triple use.

Just a few quick ideas in a couple of minutes by someone who really knows nothing.

Krijak,

There are community banks making loans on owner occupied commercial property all the time. Speculative stuff, not so much. Non-owner-occupied, depends on the market and end use. Office and retail space, forget it for now unless it is partially owner occupied.

Just like residential real estate now, there will be an overabundance of comercial rental space in the next 6 months. It will take a bit for that market to shake out. You can't just build it and hope "they" will come in this market.

Great time to use some cash to buy up some failing lots & projects if you have the cash and you can sit on it for a year or more.

Andy the banker - out.

I think JoJo is just looking for something to snivel about.

Shocked to see he found something.

Not really.

On page 14 of the stimulus bill is a part where Illinois won't get any money if Blago is governer of the state. I know that he shouldn't be governer(and isn't) but isn't that a dangerous way to try to force the change of a leader??

They do the same thing with Federal Highway funding to keep states' drinking ages at 21.

You are sadly mis-informed on this one. Due to tax code "incentives" approximately 2/3 of corporations pay no taxes at all in this country.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

Smoot-Hawley tariff act all over again - well, pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Anybody that defends this as purely an economic bailout has there blinders on.The democrats have control of this country.We voted them into office.They have the right to progress there agenda.just not under the guise of the economic bailout.The democrats better hope that this works.political suicide if it does not.I am losing confidence rapidly.

I just can't believe that our President hasn't hired Darcy Burner as a consultant in these matters (perhaps he has?).

She has a degree, you know........from Harvard.

We've already lost 2 million jobs in the USA. It is expected that we are going to lose 3 Million more. How in Gods name are the government paid employees going to get enough money in taxes to pay their salaries? It's a double edged deal with very little hope.

The money needs to stay where it can do some good, in the hands of the tax payers. they are the ones who are going to stimulate this economy. When was the last time any government agency created a profit without taxing you to death. At some point the Government needs to be overthrown. With all the working people of america taking it in the shorts, so must the Government.

Have you ever heard of the Internal Revenue Service, or the Bonneville Power Authority?
Why is it that the people who were perfectly fine with our country invading Iraq and running up our countries defect to over a trillion dollars, now piss and moan about rebuilding our countries infrastructure?

Bush-loving ballwashers.

Simple as that.

Europe just went through this bailout with their economic system and it failed badly. Now the US is gonna repeat history. What a genius idea!

With the workforce diminishing daily, who is gonna pay the taxes to the IRS so they can build the infastructure? The Dems just think they will print more money and you can work it off someday. It doesn't work that way. That's why the dollar isn't worth the cloth it is printed on today. Unemploymet is at it's highest level since the 1920's Everything is falling in value and some of you honestly believe that throwing money at is is going to help it recover. It's not a cold that you can treat with a pill. That only makes the dollar worth less. Get a clue, it has nothig to do with Bush. It has to do with greedy americans and wreckless spending.

Really? Is that what happened?

Did greedy Americans spend 4+ trillion on a war in Iraq?
Did greedy Americans deregulate the banking industry so the CDS market could turn into a 60 trillion dollar monster?
Did greedy Americans and their VISA cards take the whole world's economies down as well?

If by "greedy Americans" you mean the tools from the GOP that you've been voting for, and the DNC that the "other guy" voted for, then you're right. If you're blaming this catastrophe on the average American citizen, then you're the one who needs to grab a clue.

Who's going to pay for it? You are. And your kids. And probably your grandkids. But that's what happens when people rely on talk radio as their source of information, and vote accordingly.

Dan S-

What is it with these people, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care

I've gone off politics now - I'm pro-accordion, and I vote.

Unemployment numbers, current and historical highs.

http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm

Like I was saying, Lund needs to find some new sources of info.

It took all of 30 seconds to find that info.

Must have been too much trouble.

Since when is the US Dept. of Labor a credible source Dan?

Sorry Mike........I'm having trouble reading your post with my tinfoil helmet on.

I'm still waiting for the "whitey tape" to surface.

Why do all you guys hate America so much?

Fish on...

Todd

Care to explain to the wingnuts of the world how this stimulus package is going to kick our economy in gear? Building the infastructure is putting money from your pockets into government and state work contract. The private sector benefits from this how? How does the guy who works at intel, microsoft,lumbermans, Valley plumbing, and so on. We have roads to drive on, they may be rough or out of style, but they work. Who needs million dollar lawn to get by in life?
How has your job been effected by the slow economy Dan, Todd and KK?

If it was not for physics and the law... I would be un-stoppable

It's taken a big chunk out of one business, but hasn't really hurt the other...in fact, it may have actually improved the fishing tackle business, at least for now.

All those infrastructure jobs perform a lot of functions...besides fixing or building things we need, they employ a lot of people to do it. All the supplies that they use to build something don't come from some Government warehouse somewhere, they come from local suppliers where they are going to be doing the work.

That money will get spread out quite a bit.

I don't know to what it extent it will help, but it's not like the money just goes back into Government coffers for building road signs...

Fish on...

Todd

Excellent point!

Get yer ass out here in April, Brent!

Fish on...

Todd

Quantum physics says you ARE unstoppable, BRUN..........we just need to establish the probability.

The law thing could still be a problem, though.

So tell me, Kevin.........would the economy be better off spending 4 trillion on our infrastructure, putting peole back to work and putting money into the pockets of those who design, build, and supply those projects OR by spending multiple billions on the infrastructure and security of Iraq? Because I don't remember you ever saying a peep about those expenditures.

Is there some reason that you were silent about Bush's drunken spending spree, but you're very vocal about Obama's spending plans?

Party first, country second kind of guy?

You mean the Gubmint doesn't build the planes and missiles itself?

Ask Boehner about how Bush and 6 of 8 years of a GOP congress added 5 trillion dollars to our national debt, and what the interest on that will cost the taxpayers.

5 trillion > 1 trillion

Boehner should STFU.

Never said either way, though I think it's important to protect and defend our country. I don't think we need to spend every last dollar rebuilding a coutnry we just bombed to pieces.

Dan, and KK you never did tell us where you are employed, or if you are employed?
Are you part of the system or most of the problem?

Kevin,

My wife and I put more into the US treasury and state, county and local coffers than you ever thought of, and I'll leave it at that. The rest is none of your business.

I have it on pretty good authority that what many consider to be substance abuse by Dan is in reality a government mandated program of herbal medication for our own protection. Apparently, the THC compound is what keeps him from being so freakin' smart that he'd be able to read our minds like them big-headed dudes on that early Star Trek episode.

John Boehner told me so.

goharley,

I knew 3 months ago that you were going to be fishing with Fly last weekend.

You still have not answered the question of employment?

Damn, we need to up your dosage.

Kevin,

Like I said, it's none of your business.

You can keep asking if you'd like, though.

gh,

Wanna know what you're having for dinner on Friday?

Who?

Kelt cakes?

I would be more than willing to fund some retroactive abortions, way to many stupid people in this country.

If the factories pump out more condoms, that stimulates the economy...if they have to make so many rubbers that they have to hire more people...that stimulates the economy...if they have to buy more "rubber making machines", that stimulates the economy...

If the government spends less on welfare babies, that stimulates the economy.

If the government spends less on supporting indigent single moms, that stimulates the economy.

Fish on...

Todd

No need to keep asking. You make it perfectly clear about your employment status.

No need to keep asking because he doesn't need to share anything about his job to you or anyone else on a public board...I happen to know that Dan is very gainfully employed.

Fish on...

Todd

Do I ?

How's that?

Do yourself a favor and stop pretending you know things you have no clue about.

Of course that would preclude you from posting about anything other than fishing........which would probably be a good start.

Why were you complaining about it if it wasn't even in the plan?

I'll have a large pepperoni and olive, original crust, with pineapple on half and two salads one with blue cheese, one with ranch, to go please.

See you all been having fun.....

Here's a little ditty heard on the local news this AM concerning how our own local economy has been stimulated.

December saw over 90,000 unemployment claims filed. So many that the existing personnel can't keep up. So now not only are there record numbers of unemployed, they can't get paid because there is no one to process the paperwork.

Our solution......hire the unemployed to process the unemployment applications! There you have it! The New Economics!

(kinda like eating your foot to keep from starving to death)

Here's a little more about how good this package is.

http://www.mortgagelawnetwork.com/obamas-economic-stimulus-package-will-not-work/

http://appropriations.senate.gov/index.cfm

Reading thru the ARRA2009 the last couple days it staggering the amount of zero's attached. Also, I could not find OMC's $30,000 grant for the development of spoon technique. I better call Sen. Murray I find out what happen there.

The ability to vote money out of the treasure will be our downfall.

Try the pineapple ON the pepperoni half instead of the olive - you won't be sorry, really! this info was beamed into my mind by Dan S. and I approve his use of telepathy....

Wow. "Stimulus" in the title and not a single bikini photo in this thread.

Hardly Stimulated.

Worst Thread EVER!!!!!!

You just stimulated half of Enumclaw and all of Montana with that photo.....



MooCow approves.

Seeing as how goverment stimulus packages rarely ever work, why is there such great hope for this one? All it will do is prolong the recession/depression.

Here's a thought......

What do you think would be the result if the Feds ordered all banks to reduce all mortgage interest rates to, say 3.5%? ... Federally insured, of course.

The ramifications are incredible.

simple

The first time home buyer tax incentive doesn't work very well as most first time home buyers need the money up front, not a year down the road. If they used that money as an instant rebate towards covering closing costs, reducing interest payments or helping with the down payment it would actually work. There are fewer and fewer low down conventional loans available. FHA requires at least 3%. On a $200,000 home the rebate would cover this. If all other standards on the borrower stayed the same the rebate could work. It seems weird that 2 years ago anyone could get a zero down conventional loan and now someone with great credit can't. A compromise like this could really help.

Lately the scam seems to be, "yeah, we can get you 4.5% APR on a 30 yr fixed... but it's gonna be $8,000 in closing costs!"

I'd LOVE to see 3.5%... NO origination fee (sorry brokers) and closing costs that include maybe appraisal, title and a small processing fee. $500. Have the banks pay the brokers out of THEIR pockets for selling the loans.

Now THAT would definitely get the refi boom kicked back into high gear!

I promise to treat Obama the same way Liberals treated George Bush!

It's Thursday.

Mike?

Time to fire up your stimulus package!!!

I think it might be just a tad bit premature to think that Obama can unseat GW from the prestigious position of "Worst President In The History Of America".