Eddie........"When the sheep of this country elected GW Bush twice......"

Would that be the same sheep that put Obama in the White House?
Or do you magically think that the voting majority this time were all "new Democrats"?

I believe you have made the majority of our Nation "sheep" in your comment.....and to that I wouldn't disagree.

Also the implication that the money the last Administration spent on the war somehow resulted in our present economic housing collapse is, shall we say, very loosly tied. Once again......it's a "sheep-thang".

Graze ON!

Slab - Wasn't it PT Barnum who said, "Nobody ever went broke overestimating the bad taste of the American public."? I certainly did not mean to imply that the money spent on the war had any impact on the housing crisis. However, I do find it amusing that a lot on the right have suddenly become fiscal conservatives again now that there is a Dem in the White House.

I may be mistaken as to the origin of this quote, but I believe is was Winston Churchill who said, "The public is an ass."

As to politicians in general, they blow around in the wind.....not many of them worth firing up the shredder.

Give me people who can think for themselves, any day. I get a kick out of old, simple country folk, self reliant and unimposing. They will grab your hand like they mean it, look you in the eye, and they may just tell you exactly what they think.......whether or not you want to hear it.

Hard to beat that in my book.

RVW " wonder if stlhd gets tired of always being wrong...
$8 billion shortfall forecast for Washington state budget"

Budget "Forecast" versus Vic's claim that Gregoire increased spending by 33% over two years? Show me where I am wrong. One link was to show all states are in trouble. The other was to refute Vic's claim.

"I don't recall seeing many Bush lovers or apologists here."

The funny part is those whom voted for him not once but twice, admit he was a major f up, an yet somehow think we should listen to them when it comes to politics.

Hank, just because the Bush apologists don't come around here very often doesn't mean that they ain't out there. On another fishing board that I frequent, the right wing kool-aid is drunk long and strong.

Wasn't there a rant about bumper stickers?

http://irregularnews.com/antirepublicanbumperstickers.html

Our gas tax has been amongst the highest in the nation for a long time. Where has that money been going? Not into road improvement which is what is was supposed to be for. Our gas tax is among the highest in the nation. If you have not been seeing road construction, you have not been looking. Over the last year, due to construction projects, my commute time has decreased by about 15%. Check out wsdot.wa.gov to find out where the money is being spent.

I don't know how long you have lived here, I started traveling the highways in the late 80's, back when Snohomish and King counties were the fastest growing in the country. During that time we had some of the highest gas taxes as well. Based on the fact that all those people were moving in to Washington and buying gas, they should have had a budget surplus. That should have been spent on infrastructure improvement. Yes in the last couple of years they finally started to make improvements in the Everett area. They fixed the 167 interchange, and the Mukilteo free way now connects to 405. But they didn't do anything until long after we had the 3rd worst traffic in the country. Driving down I5 South of the convention center is like 4x4ing. So I ask again, what happened to all the gas tax I paid? The party in charge (coincidently enough it is the same party then as now) didn't do anything until things got so bad that it was out of control.

I hate to tell you, but Boeing left because of the B&O tax and all the other BS taxes they were asked to pay. Not to mention all the capital improvements (overpass on Being Everett freeway) they were asked to pay for. Boeing has received multiple tax breaks from a reduction in the B&O to elimination of the sales tax on their airplane sales, and lower fees and regulations on their construction projects. Boeing (and other large businesses) commonly get huge breaks and some would feel that they get them as a result of extortion - using the threat of moving as the hammer.

And Boeing got a better deal else where. Why was Boeing being asked to collect sales tax on products they were mostly selling out of state or out of the country? How many businesses are forced to collect sales tax on products sold out of state? Why weren’t Tramco, Jamco, BF Goodrich, Achilles, Intermec, or any other companies in the same area asked to contribute a fair share for the over pass on the Boeing Freeway? They benefit form it too.


So the housing act of 1998 didn't have anything to do with the hole we are in. That is the bill that urged companies like Fanny May and Freddy Mac to give out those ridiculous loans. Certainly Bush didn't do anything to change it, but Clinton opened Pandora's box. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to pin it all on Bush. But that is what I expect from the left. Only look at the part of the picture that makes your case and leave out the other facts. Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac did not give out loans, they underwrote loans that were originated by others. An attempt to get more homeowners did not force any real estate agent, loan originator, or loan aggregator to falsify information from borrowers or to not undertake due diligence. Greed, on all parties in the transaction, led to the housing crisis.

If you went back and looked at what I was responding to, you would have seen that my point was the Bush didn't do it by himself. I am sure I am not wrong about that.

False reports of WMDS huh? Well I am pretty sure that the UN resolution that gave the United States the authority to use force in Iraq said the the burden of proof was on Iraq and its leaders to prove that the weapons had been disposed of. They were supposed to allow weapons inspectors unrestricted access to any facility the wanted to see. Iraq wouldn't allow this type of access even though these were terms of the original cease fire signed back in 1991. Iraq made its own bed, and the world is a safer place without Saddam. This is one of your best - the UN NEVER gave the United States the authority to use force in Iraq. The resolution that is cited said there would be "serious consequences" if Iraq did not allow the inspectors back in with unfettered access and they needed to produce a report that detailed what happened with the WMD's. Iraq did allow the inspectors in, the inspectors found nothing; the report was produced by Iraq. Again, it detailed what had been done with the WMD's but Bush decided that he didn't believe the report and the Bush administration went in anyway. The world is a safer place without Sadaam, it is also a safer place without Bush IMHO.

Some of what you say here is correct. Some of what I said is correct. Here is a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441

Here are some of the parts that support what I said

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1991 invasion and occupation/

Breach of cease fire means no cease fire... Doesn't it? Here is another link for you to look at http://www.truthaboutiraq.org/index.php/Legality_Of_The_Iraq_War

Here is what they say to support what I just said.

From a legal perspective, it is also important to understand the 1991 cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States. Saddam Hussein clearly violated this cease-fire agreement, and thus the 2003 invasion of Iraq can be legally considered a continuation of the war that started in 1991.

So based on the fact that resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in violation of the cease fire agreement it is difficult to claim that that resolution wasn't an authorization to go to war.

Iraq continued to fail to account for substantial chemical and biological stockpiles which UNMOVIC inspectors had confirmed as existing as late as 1998. Iraq claimed that it had disposed of its anthrax stockpiles at a specific site, but UNMOVIC found this impossible to confirm since Iraq had not allowed the destruction to be witnessed by inspectors as required by the pertinent Resolutions. Chemical testing done at the site was unable to show that any anthrax had been destroyed there.

Interestingly enough Saddam's brother in law is never mentioned. Remember him? He defected and told the world that Saddam had WMD's and was seeking to make more. Maybe he was just pissed off.



Eddie I appreciate you taking the time, and challenging me to step up and look at things from a broader view. I have a feeling that there are some things we won't ever agree on, but I appreciate the debate.

Thanks
Vic

Stlhead here's the link for the 30+ percent increase.

Here's a graphical explaination as well

And for what it's worth......the article is before the new numbers.

The girl is a true spender....no doubt about it.

Thanks Slab. I wanted to circle back around on that one. Good catch.

You never answered my question, what freedoms have the repugnicans taken away from you?

Where's my answer?